Live In An Ancient Food Forest

For discussion related to the Paleolithic encampment - Building structures, materials, methods of construction, tools and other items around the camp/home.

Live In An Ancient Food Forest

Tomas
Registered User
Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 22:24

10 Sep 2017, 23:12 #1

Hello Folks

Why not live in an ancient style food forest apropos to your region....set up a tipi ....put in some self sustaining irrigation canals ... stock canals with apropos fish ... set up several tipis even rent some out ...you are now golden.





All The Best

Tomas
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Quest for fire
Registered User
Joined: 22 Mar 2007, 06:19

12 Sep 2017, 16:39 #2

Nice idea Tomas.
I like Tipi living but have only ever weekended in one.
The owner of the tipi and land ran a farmed wild turkey
hunt among many other activities. He also made wonderful laminated Ash bows.
He sold me the least expensive,prettiest bow in the world. 😀
And no I am not biased. 😉

Quest for Fire
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Robson Valley
Registered User
Joined: 24 Apr 2015, 00:27

12 Sep 2017, 21:14 #3

As a hunter gatherer, I would look for my best campsite first and optimize what I've got.
Rather than hike for miles for food, I would next begin to bring the valuable plants home.
A 'food forest' can be so many things.

I did that in the city = dug up all sorts of top quality wild berry bushes and brought them home to look after.
Best in terms of energy efficiency.  A pleasure to harvest.
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JohnB842
Registered User
Joined: 13 Sep 2017, 12:38

15 Sep 2017, 22:47 #4

Tomas wrote: Hello Folks

Why not live in an ancient style food forest apropos to your region....set up a tipi ....put in some self sustaining irrigation canals ... stock canals with apropos fish ... set up several tipis even rent some out ...you are now golden.





All The Best

Tomas
I like the idea, but I think a yurt would be better in areas with colder climates. Less overhead space with heat being wasted.
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Robson Valley
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Joined: 24 Apr 2015, 00:27

16 Sep 2017, 02:17 #5

Paleo history shows that many cultures lived in both summer camps and winter camps. 
Or some such version which satisfied a great need like an autumn salmon fishing and preserving camp.
Across western North America, winter camps of pit houses were not uncommon. 
4'-6' below grade with 2+' earth on the roof, their survival is evidence of the value.
Haida on the coast needed cedar plank houses because of the great rainfall totals.  No yurt nor tipi would last a season.

Clearly the housing met the vagaries of climate around the wworld.
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Tomas
Registered User
Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 22:24

16 Sep 2017, 15:06 #6

Hello Folks

Hmmmm first it is always good to know that ancient ancestors used a wide variety of materials and methods in their indigenous architecture.

However one of the most versatile was and is the conical skin lodge used in some form in virtually every ecology on the planet and likely the oldest type of nomadic or settled shelter type used by ancient people.

Essentially a water proof membrane made from a wide variety of materials it's tensile strength and lightness is key to its' success as a shelter. Various moisture proof materials treated with oils and tannins makes it impervious to various forms of decay. Historical accounts testify to it's use in all seasons, ecologies, climates and durability over many years.

All The Best

Tomas
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Robson Valley
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Joined: 24 Apr 2015, 00:27

16 Sep 2017, 15:35 #7

There was nothing on Haida Gwaii to use for tipi skin.  The black-tail Columbia deer are a recent introduction.

Western Red Cedar is so vastly superior in the west coast climate that the Haida
took their house boards with them when they changed seasonal camps.  Why not?
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Tomas
Registered User
Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 22:24

16 Sep 2017, 21:50 #8

Hello Folks

It is certainly good the ancestors had portable architecture of varied materials.... as for the conical skin lodge materials.... seal hide skin lodge anyone....;-)


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... m_1915.JPG

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7a/ac/0c/7aac ... s-tent.jpg

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Robson Valley
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Joined: 24 Apr 2015, 00:27

17 Sep 2017, 04:52 #9

I'm more interested in the observations and findings and measurements made by Franz Boas.
In part during the Jesup North Pacific Expedition of 1897 - 1902.

Why not admit to the Haida houses of 40' x 100' and cedar planked?
That their boats of 40' - 60' easily carried the house boards to seasonal camps.
There are far darker elements of Haida house constructions which need no discussion.

Wild seals.  What multipurpose functions do the Haida record for those?
Halibut were more useful.  Seals, a thousand miles north?  Yes, most certainly.
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Tomas
Registered User
Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 22:24

17 Sep 2017, 16:58 #10

Robson Valley wrote: I'm more interested in the observations and findings and measurements made by Franz Boas.
In part during the Jesup North Pacific Expedition of 1897 - 1902.

Why not admit to the Haida houses of 40' x 100' and cedar planked?
That their boats of 40' - 60' easily carried the house boards to seasonal camps.
There are far darker elements of Haida house constructions which need no discussion.

Wild seals.  What multipurpose functions do the Haida record for those?
Halibut were more useful.  Seals, a thousand miles north?  Yes, most certainly.
Hello Robson Valley

Thank you for continuing to share you knowledge of Haida Gwaii it is most fascinating .

Thought you might enjoy this site that gives some architectural details of Haida construction.


http://www.sfu.ca/archaeology-old/museu ... using.html

All The Best

Tomas

PS There is no doubt the Haida people knew the best architecture for their ecology...the points about the conical skin lodge (tipi) is to simply show it's rather universal adaptability to various climates and ecologies.
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Robson Valley
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Joined: 24 Apr 2015, 00:27

17 Sep 2017, 17:16 #11

Tipi are useful in dry climates with occassional rain.  Not on the coast of British Columbia. 
Every Haida village (Tlingit & Tsimsian, too) is a cluster of wooden houses. 
Post & beam construction, covered with split cedar house boards which last for many decades in the rain.
Cedar is a magnificent multiputpose tree in the west as birch is in the east.

I think the Kwakwaka'Wakw (mid coast) did the same but I don't know for sure without consulting the elders.
I know a matriarch of Frog Clan.

The interesting parallel is that the tipi were moved from one location to another.
On the west coast, the house frames remained standing and the house boards were loaded into the boats
to be move to other house frames in seasonal camps.

The salmon are running now, even as far up the Fraser as my place.  First Nations are busy with the harvest.
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Tomas
Registered User
Joined: 10 Apr 2013, 22:24

17 Sep 2017, 18:11 #12

Hello RV

Again there is no challenge to your information about the advantages of Haida architecture...that said the point is that the conical skin lodge is adaptable to virtually any ecology including Haida Gwaii... the sealskin lodges of other Canadian people proves the materials would be available if desired ...the long wintering in skin lodges by native folks (Blackfeet for instance) proves the architecture in any season....the gale force winds and torrential rains of the plains further advances the skin lodge durability...as for longevity the skin lodge is easily renewable and if made from bark strips could possibly challenge other longhouse architecture for length of duration.

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/pageant/12/ar ... otos13.jpg

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Gj-vx3T8gTk/ ... _photo.jpg

All The Best

Tomas

PS In addition to the above one is certain that both Haida or conical skin lodge architecture would look lovely in a 2000 year old food forest...the original subject of this thread... 😊
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Robson Valley
Registered User
Joined: 24 Apr 2015, 00:27

17 Sep 2017, 21:21 #13

Before smallpox, the large Haida population required gardens and even mariculture of clams, mussels and oysters, all of which is still done.
The elders suggest that the gardens are all of millenia in age.

Here on the mainland, some early pioneer homesteads were carved out of the forest then abandoned.  The sites are long since overgrown.  How do you know where they were?  Simple.  Look for pairs of apple trees.  Then find rows of old berry bushes.  We don't have forest/tree species which yield useful food like walnuts and dates.  All the good things are frost hardy and introduced as well.

Back east on the plains, look for rows of berry bushes and the big tell-tale indentations from pit houses.
Look for areas with lots and lots of the uncommon wild onions.

Shelter.  Certainly, take advantage of what works best for the local climate.  Pit houses here are no novelty.

Coastal cedars are big and solid to the core.  They are multipurpose.  The wood is really easy to split into planks 24" to 36" wide x 3/4" thick.
It just pops open even to 1/8" thickness.  Here in the ICH of the Boreal Forest Biome ( not at all like the plains), almost every cedar is naturally rotten in the core.  Starts when the trees are about 20 yrs old.  No harm to the tree.  Fantastic when a carver needs naturally curved wood for a mask.  Several in a pile outside my back door.
Our Ancient Forest Reserve site is in a lightning shadow,  14C dating shows it hasn't been burnt in 4,000+ years.  Normal fire cycle is about 100 years or less.  Lots of really big trees in there.. 200cm DBH.

Hilary Stewart:  "Cedar.  Tree of Life to the Northwest Coast Indians."  1984.  Douglas & McIntyre/Vancouver.  192 illustrated pages of explanation and examples.
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