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For discussion related to primitive bows.

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Araverus
Registered User
Joined: 22 Apr 2017, 21:29

25 May 2017, 03:47 #1

I remember a statement I made a while back about a 24" stave I had... I think you know where this is going. I know I can't, but I wonder: who can make a 24" bow with poundage enough for hunting mid-sized game (like dog, rabbit, doe or badger size) ?
Post here if you try! This might be good experience!
Last edited by Araverus on 26 May 2017, 05:20, edited 1 time in total.
"The best joke? Humans!"
--Lucifer
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French Crow
Registered User
Joined: 25 May 2006, 17:31

25 May 2017, 07:47 #2

You don't need poundage, you need poisoned arrowheads Image

Image

And don't hunt dogs unless you're really starving Image
Bruno
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French Crow
Registered User
Joined: 25 May 2006, 17:31

25 May 2017, 07:52 #3

Araverus wrote:
...who can make a 24" bow with poundage enough for hunting mid-sized game (like dog, rabbit, doe or badger size) ?
Not me for sure.
In my opinion it's very hard to make a 24" long selfbow that could insure a clean kill for mid-sized game. Poundage will be low (even with top wood), and draw length too - which is as important.
Last edited by French Crow on 25 May 2017, 07:54, edited 1 time in total.
Bruno
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Tim Baker
Registered User
Joined: 23 May 2005, 06:22

27 May 2017, 00:01 #4

Making a 24" bow, and working to get the best arrow speed from that length, is a worthwhile effort, possibly leading to information applicable to more conventional bow sizes.

Roughly speaking, 20-ounces of wood is capable of storing enough energy to cast a 500-grain arrow 160 fps.

Roughly speaking, an optimized 24" wooden bow would likely weight about 5 ounces, which could potentially cast a 125-grain arrow 160 fps.

The route to better 24” bow performance is via increasing the amount of working wood mass. Length is out, and thickness raises wood strain too quickly, so width is left. Doubling the width doubles the mass, doubles the same-fps arrow weight...
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Patrick St M
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Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 08:11

27 May 2017, 01:06 #5

We have 24" composite data...


 Good to see you again, Tim.
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Araverus
Registered User
Joined: 22 Apr 2017, 21:29

27 May 2017, 05:16 #6

I think the best cross section would look like this then, outer side on top:
Image
"The best joke? Humans!"
--Lucifer
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Tuukka Kumpulainen
Registered User
Joined: 11 Jun 2017, 08:45

11 Jun 2017, 08:58 #7

I have hunted small-to mid-sized game quite extensively, using short selfbows. In my experience and opinion, an efficient 40#@20" draw is needed to take game ethically. This works out to about 40" minimum selfbow length, but optimal efficiency needs a longer bow than that, around 46 - 50", which is what I use. The vast majority of Aboriginal selfbow pulls outside poison arrow usage, based on bow and arrow specimens, fit this criteria. Children's bows and sinew-backed bows obviously don't, neccessarily.

Tuukka
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Woodbear
Registered User
Joined: 25 Jun 2005, 04:30

07 Jul 2017, 06:14 #8

You can get high energy storage in a sort bow. A short bow will necessitate a short draw, say near 50% of the bow length. High energy storage can be achieved by a high draw weight. This is like the prod of a cross bow, 12 inch draw, and 60# draw weight. At a 2" brace height, such a bow will store around 24ftlb. At 70% efficiency this gives 17ftlb in the arrow. A 300 grain arrow would then move at around 160fps, which is probably enough for rabbits.

The 60# or more is not very user friendly, so I think in practice, a 3 ft bow would be much more practical, and give a more manageable draw weight.

Dave
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river rat
Registered User
Joined: 25 Nov 2015, 15:24

07 Jul 2017, 07:44 #9

best ive been able to do {shortest} was a 38 in. Lakota styled osage self bow with narrowed tips. 50 lbs at 19 inches. ImageImageImage to get it any shorter i think would be way to hard to draw. at least with any decent cast at all.
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sleek
Registered User
Joined: 30 Dec 2010, 02:59

12 Sep 2017, 21:34 #10

I believe more could be obtained. I have been experimenting with deflexed fades as a way to cheat the system and get longer draw out of the bow comping with recurved tips to increase draw length and reduced stack. I have done so with decent results in performance. I have taken 4 foot bows up to 70 pounds at 28 inches of draw with decent cast.

Deflex the handle in the center and make it stiff.  This forces the limbs to be thicker to resist the leverage against them by the recurved tips. Thicker limbs equals faster and heavier bows especially when coupled with width.

Now i did say i am still experimenting with this and until I have made ( many ) more with solid tests, I cant say for certain this is the best way to go. However I have made enough ( 5 ) to extremes with good results to say the principle is sound.
Once I was making some paleo mulch from a stick and after many hours was astonished to find myself holding a bow.
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