The Welsh and Irish Bows

Read Only - storage of past discussions of the authentic replication of historical bows.
africansky1972
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February 26th, 2010, 2:45 pm #21

Hi Craig,

That is correct according to the genetic research the population of the UK came from Western Europe prior to the Iron age. This includes the Basques. Also linguistically and culturally there are similarities with western European Gaelic speaking peoples as mentioned in the text to which you referred me.
The short Waterford bows date from a period where Welsh archers were serving under the English fighting in Ireland.  Have you read Halpin's paper yet?  I agree that we have different opinions but you should at least take the time to read what the archeological record says, since I took the time to read your links....:-)
As Halpin suggests the lengths of the bows may have varied considerably although the cross sections are similiar to the Sais bow cross section.
Thanks for your links they were really very informative.

Pedro
Last edited by africansky1972 on February 26th, 2010, 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Korky456
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February 26th, 2010, 2:57 pm #22

there is simply not enough definitive evidence to show what bows were used in Wales prior to English conquest. To try and suggest that they would be the Same as irish bows is just as usefull as drawing similarities with asian bows, they are likley to be completley different. untill a bow is found that proves it either way i will continue believing in a longbow because of Wales's long millitary hisory.

pedro
leek and elm are the same in welsh or is that what you meant? , because gaelic is a completley different language
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CraigMBeckett
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February 26th, 2010, 3:07 pm #23

Pedro,

Have read Halpin's work. Yes at Waterford they found 1 short bow and a number of pieces of other bows. I fail to see any evidence that the other bows were of the same size as the complete one, all Halpin does is say "they were probably of the same length". No dimensions are given of the complete bow other than its length, will have to see if  I can find any elsewhere, would like to estimate its strength. After all children's bows were made. Even if the bow is an adult's bow does not mean it was a Welsh bow. Waterford was a Norman stronghold and the Normans were prone to employing mercenaries from all over Europe.

So again no definitive proof and not even compelling proof as you put in an earlier post.

What do you mean by "Sais" in the last line of the post prior to this? Bugger Korky got in before me, its on the last line of your last post before this.

Craig.
Last edited by CraigMBeckett on February 26th, 2010, 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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africansky1972
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February 26th, 2010, 3:13 pm #24

Craig thanks for reading Halpin's paper and for your comments.
The bows found at Waterford are not just Irish they are reckoned to be English or Welsh....The Anglo - Normans employed mercenaries but I reckon Halpin would have a pretty good idea of who was present at Waterford (this includes Welshman).  Halpin refers to Cambrensis having mentioned the presence of Welsh archers in this context?  Halpin also mentions that the arrowheads found with the bows/ bow fragments were war arrowheads, not hunting arrowheads.
Halpin refers to the tendency to refer to the 'longbow' as being by definition long (65 inches or more for arguments sake).  He states that we might do better to look at the actual design and proportions of the weapon than the length in understanding the terminology of the times.  Would Elm (preferably Wych Elm) produce a credible military weapon at a length of 50 inches or would an Elm bow have to be about the length of the bow that Jamie made for it to be effective?

The minimum age for military service amongst the Welsh was 14 years?  Would a 50 inch Yew bow, with the same design as an English Longbow of the 100 years War, not suit a 14/ 15 year old archer?
Would any sane military commander place 14/15 yo fighters in frontline hand to hand combat or rather prefer to use them as archers where the survival rate would be higher?
Regarding my response to Jamie's (is his surname Oliver?)  post: No I simply gave the Welsh names for leek and elm. Welsh is different from Gaelic which is Irish in origin and similiar also to Scots Gaelic. Welsh is related to Cornish and Breton. Genetically the Welsh are most closely related to the Basques.  Various groups have migrated/ invaded into the British Isles but not nearly as significantly as earlier historians suggested. Thanks again for the very informative links on our ancestory.

Gerald Cambrensis was present in Waterford in 1185 and wrote 2 books about Ireland: Expugnatio Hibernica (Conquest of Ireland) and Topograpia Hibernica (Topography or description of Ireland).  See my post about online books for a link where these ebooks can be downloaded.

I have a short piece of African Dogwood...semi seasoned and cut just at the beggining of 2010....I think I will make an Irish Bow out of it.....The Basotho who live in the Dragon Mountains call this wood "The Darkness" and they say that it wards off evil because 'only the darkness can defeat the darkness'

Sais is a Welsh word, in Scottish Gaelic the word is Sassunach. In contemporary Scotland the word is Sassenach.  In Irish it is Sasanach.  In Cornish it is Sawsneck.  It means 'Saxon.'  The English or Saxons go by other names in Africa but I can't mention them due to the forum rules.

Pedro
Last edited by africansky1972 on February 26th, 2010, 7:05 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Loki
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February 26th, 2010, 7:54 pm #25

The Saxon word for Foreigner is Wales,Ironic isnt it..?


Whilst I agree with you about the "Celtic" migration theory (that was bollocks when it was written 130 years ago) I'm  curious as to why you think England = Saxon?
The Saxons only ever controlled the south of what is now England, the Angles,Jutes and later the Danes controlled the rest,including southern Wales and as far North as Edinburgh.The Norse Norwegians controlled the Western Isles of what is now Scotland and the East coast of Ireland,Dublin was a Norse settlement.

There is quite an interesting study on the English people ongoing at Oxford University,you can send of for the DNA pack and they'll tell you your ancestory.My results came back mixed (like most people) but I have Irish Grandparents (mother) so I was expecting Brythonic.I refuse to use the word 'Celtic' when discussing native Britons .
It's impossible to genetically distinguish between the Saxons,Angles,Jutes,Danes and Normans as they are all the same Race so the Professors at Oxford use your family name and area you come from to determine what tribe.My surname (father) comes from a Danish word and his family have always lived in county Durham/Northumbria so they concluded Danish.

http://www.oxfordancestors.com/
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CraigMBeckett
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February 26th, 2010, 9:42 pm #26

Pedro,

I lived is ZA in the early 70's, am well aware what the dutch call the English and vice versa, but as your family name is English/British you are a Red Neck and one who stands with one foot ib England and One in Africa, with a certain appendage dangling in the Ocean are you not?

WRT the 14/15 year olds, history is suffuse with similar stories, commanders rarely if ever gave any regard to their troops welfare or the suitability of using children. The Normans, being a people of their time would not have given a second thought to using them in any way.

Again concerning the bows, as Hlpin's work only reproduced drawings done by others one wonders if he has ever seen the bows or is just repeating others theories. I also wonder if the bows have actually been looked at closely by bowyers skilled in the production of similar weapons. One cannot trust Archaeologists, it is not their field and such is evidenced by the large number of incorrectly strung bows throughout the world's museums.

I must say that you seem to be placing a great deal of trust in one piece of writing by one person, especially when all I see in that writing is unsupported supposition..

Craig.
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africansky1972
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February 27th, 2010, 9:25 pm #27

Loki thanks for that background, it seems that indeed there were different cultural groups in the British Isles, however no racial differences as we also see in virtually all of Western Europe. In my view genetic similarities are not the be all and end all.  Cultural differences between the various populations within for example the UK are also of great importance.  Language and social customs are very important in defining national heritage, hence the efforts to ensure the survival of Welsh and Scottish Gaelic.

Craig, no my surname is not English, the surname Victor also occurs in the Uk but my father's side of the family originates from France and Portugal.  The surname which has not been inherited was De Carvalho, possibly De Carvalho e Melo.  We come from the northern part of Portugal in a region that includes so called Celt Iberian and Gothic influences.
On my mother's side I am descended from a Welsh grandfather. I diiferentiate between Welsh and English populations on the basis of culture and language. There are distinct differences. The Boers, for example, descend from a mix of Caucasian peoples from Europe but are also partly descended from Khoi and Bushmen folks who intermarried with the colonists.
My Grandmother (on my mother's side) was the daughter of a Boer Commando.  One of her uncles was captured and sent on vacation to Ceylon early in the Second Boer war.  My great grandfather is suspected of having surrendered late in the war, months after his wife was sent to an English concentration camp.  Please note that the Boers destroyed their own records to prevent reprisals against non - combatants and also surrendered/ were captured under altered or false names for the same reason. The woman in question is recorded as entering the camp with 2 young children, we can find no record of the children leaving the camps alive.  The English placed the wives and children (non combatants) of Boer soldiers on starvation rations and provided conditions that resulted in the deaths of more than 26 000 women and children in these concentration camps during the war fought between 11/10/1899 and  31/05/1902.  This was similiar but not identical to the strategy followed by the English against the Welsh and Irish during earlier times.  For more on this period (early 20th century) in British history please follow the links below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w..._camps_.281900_-_1902.29

http://www.anglo-boer.co.za/concentration-camps/

http://www.anglo-boer.co....ntration-camp-system.php

I do agree that one cannot take Halpin's paper as the be all and end all.  I posted the Durer drawing and link to Halpin's paper with the idea that it might help folks on paleoplanet to make replicas of the bows depicted which would give some hard data on their performance.  This is the only method that would give us some solid facts for interpreting the artifacts.  That is why the work of folks like Jamie and everyone else on paleoplanet is really important.  One of South Africa's leading archeologists stated to me "Archeology is not a hobby" when I offered to assist them with archery and bow making.  Well in Europe and the US plenty of 'amateur' replicators make a great contribution to archeology, even if this is not as well recognised as I think it should be.  I think this thread actually proves that.

Thanks

Pedro Victor
Last edited by africansky1972 on February 27th, 2010, 9:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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CraigMBeckett
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February 27th, 2010, 11:29 pm #28

Pedro,
One of South Africa's leading archeologists stated to me "Archeology is not a hobby" when I offered to assist them with archery and bow making.  Well in Europe and the US plenty of 'amateur' replicators make a great contribution to archeology, even if this is not as well recognised as I think it should be.  I think this thread actually proves that.
Yes its that sort of thinking that causes all the problems, Archaeologists are not necessarily the best people to interpret all their finds. We know they have experts in things such as pottery, but do they have experts in bowyery, I doubt it otherwise they would not have made the mistakes that are prevalent throughout the world. There are some archaeologists , some of whom are contributers to this site, that are skilled bowyers but I would suggest they are relatively few.
The English placed the wives and children (non combatants) of Boer soldiers on starvation rations and provided conditions that resulted in the deaths of more than 26 000 women and children in these concentration camps during the war fought between 11/10/1899 and  31/05/1902. 
I have no argument with you over this shameful chapter of BRITISH history. The British did indeed invent the concentration camp where conditions were such, and it must be added the sanitary practices of the inmates were such, that disease became endemic. You will of course notice that I printed British in caps. just pointing out that one should not single out the English for blame as it was performed by British troops. Kitchener was after all born in Ireland.

Craig.
Last edited by CraigMBeckett on February 27th, 2010, 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Loki
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February 28th, 2010, 1:13 am #29

"This was similar but not identical to the strategy followed by the English agaisnt the Welsh and Irish at earlier times"

Do you have a source for this?

As I understand it, the BRITISH 'concentration camps' were set up during the 2nd Boer war because the army had burned down 30,000 farmhouses.Unbeliavably the camps were supposed to help the Boer family's,the missmangement of those camps was and is a disgrace!
I'm unaware of scorched earth techniques and camps being used together for any of Britain or Englands campaigns into Wales or Ireland..?
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Loki
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February 28th, 2010, 2:00 am #30

"it seems that indeed there were different cultural groups in the British Isles, however no racial differences as we also see in virtually all of Western Europe."

Thats not true,the Germans,Scandanavians,Latins and "Celts" all have different Chromosones,thats how Genealogists can tell your family history from your DNA.
It can get confusing in Britain because all the Chromosones are present in the population due to the British Isles invasion/migration history.
Last edited by Loki on February 28th, 2010, 2:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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africansky1972
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February 28th, 2010, 10:23 am #31

Loki,

Having different chromosomes does not constitute a racial difference.  All the groups mentioned are Caucasian from Western Europe.  What constitutes a racial difference? 

"Mark Shriver and Rick Kittles recently remarked":
"For many customers of lineage-based tests, there is a lack of understanding that their maternal and paternal lineages do not necessarily represent their entire genetic make-up. For example, an individual might have more than 85% Western European 'genomic' ancestry but still have a West African mtDNA or NRY lineage."
The following links provide useful information on this topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...cs:_population_and_cline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...s_as_vectors_of_heredity
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...hondrial_DNA_haplogroups
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...aplogroup_L0_%28mtDNA%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...hondrial_DNA_haplogroups

Cultural and linguistic differences are most often more than enough for humans to pick a fight with their neigbours. The English used a strategy of the targeting of non combatant relatives of combatants, blockade and starvation against the Welsh during the Welsh uprising under Owain Glyndŵr. See Link:
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owain_Glynd%C5%B5r

The use of concentration camps did not occur in Ireland and Wales, however targeting of non combatants and scorched earth policies were common duing the middle ages and later....indicating a long history of the use of these strategies by the English among others.
Links about atrocities committed during Irish rebellions including reference to scorched earth policies:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ond_Rebellions#Aftermath
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...oss_%281798%29#Massacres
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...llion_of_1798#Government

Domhnach na Fola(1972):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29

Kitchener was not Irish at all.  His family was English:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ener,_1st_Earl_Kitchener

Frederick Roberts was Anglo Irish (Family from Waterford) and it is Roberts who issued the orders establishing the concentration camps as well as Roberts who issued the orders for Boer non combatant relatives of Boer combatants in the field to be placed on starvation rations.
The forced removal of non combatants from their land, looting of private property, widespread destruction of private property, selective poisoning, witholding of appropriate medical care, starvation of non - combatants, commission of various crimes against non - combatants and the use of mock executions are war crimes.  The death rate of Boer civilians in British (author edited out the word 'English' and substituted the word 'British') concentration camps was 34.4%....hardly something which one could attribute to the alledged sanitary habits of the inmates.  See Link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...oberts,_1st_Earl_Roberts

In my experience most archeologists lack any practical knowledge of the crafting of and use of the artifacts that they interpret, including but not limited to bows.  Archeological blunders are not limited to bow use.  Note the 'baton de commandement' classified as a baton or symbol of authority but now shown to be a form of spear thrower.  I gain the impression that at least some archeologists do not want any input from 'amateur' archeologists and replicators, prefering to protect themselves against criticism and preventing their theories and interpretations from being put to the test in scientific experiments. I hope the information helps folks on paleoplanet.

Thanks

Pedro


Last edited by africansky1972 on February 28th, 2010, 4:14 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Loki
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February 28th, 2010, 2:02 pm #32

Ah sorry,I used the word Race to differentuate between the tribes.Of course the Europeans are all White skinned but they are not all the same people,genetics show us this.

I'm not waisting my time reading any of those Wikipidea links,They CAN NOT be used as a Historical reference.Anyone can write what they like in a Wikipidea entry,I can log in now and change any of those entries you linked to without any research or papers for evidence.
The paragraph you quote say's " The death rate of Boer civilians in English concentration camps was 34.4%" are those numbers corrects? I have no idea, I havent researched it but the fact the writer has wrote ENGLISH concentration camp shows his Ignorance. England has not had an Army,Monarch or Parliment since 1603 when the Scots Kings took over the throne with the Unification of the Kingdoms (James I).
The Protestant colonists of Ireland predominantly came from Scotland (Ulster Scots) the Army of William of Orange (William III) was Dutch.William and his Dutch troops 11,000 foot and 4,000 horse soldiers defeated the Catholic Irish and saved the Starved/Starving Protestant Colonists.The Irish also Starved it's enemies,it was a common enough seige tactic.The 'English' are not as evil as you have been trying to make them sound,nearly all European Countries colonised  other nations.
The Portugese did it,they had colonies in Africa and South America and the Boer (Dutch colonists) act of Apartheid is just as shameful as anything Britain or England has ever done.
But Thanks anyway!
Last edited by Loki on February 28th, 2010, 3:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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africansky1972
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February 28th, 2010, 4:03 pm #33

"Ah sorry,I used the word Race to differentuate between the tribes.Of course the Europeans are all White skinned but they are not all the same people,genetics show us this."  Loki you referred to genetics.  I trust that folks on Paleoplanet who are interested in genetics and the history of the Human Race will take the time to follow the links provided and read the wikipedia entries.  The entries are really very comprehensive with a large bibliography and plenty of references.

"The paragraph you quote say's " The death rate of Boer civilians in English concentration camps was 34.4%" are those numbers corrects? I have no idea, I havent researched it but the fact the writer has wrote ENGLISH concentration camp shows his Ignorance."  Thanks for this comment, since the Boer army included volunteers from the United Kingdom, particularly an Irish unit, one prefers not to refer to the concentration camps as British. Irish troops also fought in the British Army but I am unaware of the Welsh, Scottish and Irish people suggesting or implementing the British policies executed by a British Army that seems to have been largely under the command and influence of English indivduals. However since you insist, I will edit my post accordingly.  Any person interested in researching this topic can read the relevant wikipedia entries and or contact the Anglo - Boer War museum by following this link:

http://www.anglo-boer.co.za/

"The 'English' are not as evil as you have been trying to make them sound,nearly all European Countries colonised  other nations.
The Portugese did it,they had colonies in Africa and South America and the Boer (Dutch colonists) act of Apartheid is just as shameful as anything Britain or England has ever done.
But Thanks anyway!"

Thanks again for this comment. As you stated almost all (if not all) European countries colonised other nations. The Irish only managed to regain their independence from the British Empire partially in 1922 and completely in 1948.  Irish Catholics continued to fight against British Imperialism well into the 1980's.
Please note that apartheid was not a Boer policy.  Apartheid was legislated in 1948, 46 years after the destruction of the Boer Republics by the British Empire.  For some accurate background to the British roots of the apartheid policies please follow this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...#Precursors_of_apartheid

This post is now off topic.  I prefer not to respond to any other comments that do not directly relate to Irish and Welsh archery or at least to archery or archeology in general.

Thanks for your interest

Pedro Victor
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Loki
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February 28th, 2010, 4:23 pm #34

Since you insist on referencing Wikipidea  (LOL) as a Historical source,here's another site for the good folks of Paleoplanet to read referencing the Africaners (Boer) involvement in Apartheid.
http://www-cs-students.st...s201/apartheid.hist.html


"  Irish troops also fought in the British Army but I am unaware of the Welsh, Scottish and Irish people suggesting or implementing the British policies executed by a British Army that seems to have been largely under the command and influence of English indivduals"

Again,do you have a Reference for this statement? just because you are unaware of Welsh/Scots or Irishmen in the British Army doesnt mean they werent.

"This post is now off topic.  I prefer not to respond to any other comments that do not directly relate to Irish and Welsh archery or at least to archery or archeology in general.

Thanks for your interest"

PM me if you dont want to answer in a public forum the topic what you brought up in a discussion about Irish and Welsh Bows.


PAX
Last edited by Loki on February 28th, 2010, 4:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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africansky1972
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February 28th, 2010, 5:03 pm #35

Since you insist on referencing Wikipidea  (LOL) as a Historical source,here's another site for the good folks of Paleoplanet to read referencing the Africaners (Boer) involvement in Apartheid.
http://www-cs-students.st...s201/apartheid.hist.html

I reckon folks can follow the links to wikipedia, check the references and decide for themselves.
The Afrikaners descend from the Boers, please note that Afrikaner politics came to be dominated during the 1940's by elements who had links to Nazi Germany during WWII.  Many Afrikaners also opposed the apartheid system including prominent folks like wing commander Adolf 'Sailor' Malan.
I think the link provided to wikipedia, provides a much more comprehensive and referenced source than the link you provided.  Again anther wikipedia link for those who are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boer

"  Irish troops also fought in the British Army but I am unaware of the Welsh, Scottish and Irish people suggesting or implementing the British policies executed by a British Army that seems to have been largely under the command and influence of English indivduals"

Again,do you have a Reference for this statement? just because you are unaware of Welsh/Scots or Irishmen in the British Army doesnt mean they werent.
I rather thought the whole point was that Welsh, Scottish and Irish soldiers did serve in the British Army during the Second Boer War but that the war and the policy of War Crimes pursued by the British Army was largely controlled by English individuals in the command structure of both the British Army and British Society. It should be noted that Scottish units suffered severe casualties at the beggining of the war in actions characterised by calous command by English officers. Loki you might want to get a hold of the book listed below and read it? You are obviously very interested in this topic and I am sure that after reading this book and contacting the Anglo-Boer War museum you will have availed yourself of the facts.

Pakenham, Thomas (1979). The Boer War. New York: Random House. ISBN 0394427424.

Loki this is another book you might want to purchase, of course all these references are available on wikipedia:
S.B. Spies, Methods of Barbarism: Roberts and Kitchener and Civilians in the Boer Republics January 1900 - May 1902. Cape Town: Human & Rousseau, 1977

"This post is now off topic.  I prefer not to respond to any other comments that do not directly relate to Irish and Welsh archery or at least to archery or archeology in general.

Thanks for your interest"

PM me if you dont want to answer in a public forum the topic what you brought up in a discussion about Irish and Welsh Bows.
I really think that folks can follow the links and read up for themselves.  Wikipedia is not as innaccurate as you seem to believe.  Almost all the entries I have seen are very well referenced and have a sound bibliography.

So do you have anything to add about archery or bows and arrows?
Last edited by africansky1972 on February 28th, 2010, 5:52 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Loki
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February 28th, 2010, 5:48 pm #36

No sorry I dont.

You can use the PM function if you dont want me to answer your statements about British imperalism you make in your topic on Irish and Welsh bows.

" Wikipedia is not as innaccurate as you seem to believe.  Almost all the entries I have seen are very well referenced and have a sound bibliography."

Wikipedia is a joke,I dont know of any Historian amateur or professional who sites that site when referencing historical research.
It can not be used for any course work papers for University graduates for the simple reason I mentioned in an earlier post,anyone can write or alter any Wiki articles regardless of their expertise or knowledge on the subject.
The entries you have seen may appear well referenced and bibliograhed to you but who knows if you are qualified to make such assumptions about the rest of the readers.Maybe you are maybe you arent,I dont know.What I do know is that there isnt any Historical forum or Class what will accept Wikipidea entries as source material.
You seem a lot more knowledgable on the subject than me so I assume you have done a lot more research,why not link to some of the work you read when studying the subject? I'm prepared to buy books as I'm lacking in this period of history if you have any recomendations?


Again do you have a reference for this statement? Can you link these English Individuals with British policy of War crimes in the British army regarding the mistreatmnent of the Boers? I'm not trying to refute you or defend British Imperalism (my grandparents are Irish (Cork) and I am a Catholic) but I need evidence,there is so much Xenophabia regarding the English that I'm not prepared to take your word for it I'm, afraid.
"Welsh, Scottish and Irish soldiers did serve in the British Army during the Second Boer War but that the war and the policy of War Crimes pursued by the British Army was largely controlled by English individuals in the command structure of both the British Army and British Society."




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CraigMBeckett
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February 28th, 2010, 11:41 pm #37

I think this discussion has gone way off topic and think it should stop.

We are not here to discuss either of the boer wars or the introduction of the apartheid policy by the majority Boer parliament of South Africa.

I for one will only continue in this thread if the topic returns to bows.

Craig.
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Boru
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March 1st, 2010, 8:29 am #38

Umm - Primitive Bows and Archery Forum here, Guys!!!!
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africansky1972
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March 1st, 2010, 8:47 am #39

I am trying to get in touch with Andy Halpin...lets see if he can provide any more sources about Irish archery.
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africansky1972
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March 1st, 2010, 7:45 pm #40

Craig,

Your surname is Beckett, correct?
You have made it clear that your personal opinion is that the Welsh used longbows. You also stated that the English cleared tracks of land along which the advanced into Wales during the Conquest of Wales. I did ask you how broad these tracts of land were. You have not provided any sources for this statement nor any further information. This would be very interesting to know. Would you mind giving us some sources for your statement please?

Another question that arises is the question of Yew Tree poulation in Ireland. Later in the Middle Ages the English were importing Yew from Spain and Saxony. Since the Yew tree is very slow growing they had apparently exhausted their supplies within the British Isles. So if the Welsh were making bows out of Yew for thousands of years, one suspects they must have been using quite a lot of Yew to make longbows similiar in length to the Mary Rose bows. Why did they not exhaust the supply of Yew? What do folks on paleoplanet think about this?
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