vette
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vette
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Joined: July 21st, 2009, 10:18 pm

July 21st, 2009, 10:18 pm #21

WOW!! What an awesome tutorial!

Can you offer any advice, please? I'm making my daughter a pair of moccasins for her first baby (due September 26) and want to make the beadwork as authentic as possible. I don't just want to sew beads on in any old pattern, I want to use patterns that i can explain the meanings of to her.

Any ideas where i can get patterns or suggestions for same?

Many thanks in advance,

'Vette
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krosenau
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August 7th, 2009, 6:59 am #22

I love the step by step instructions with pictures, have you ever thought of posting some videos on www.youtube.com?
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saxaphonium
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January 25th, 2010, 10:37 pm #23

Ok, so if you're measuring the foot part 1/4" longer on the toe, and 1/4" longer on the heel, and then cutting in 3/4", doesn't that make it too short? Also, if I'm making a wool felt liner, how much bigger do I have to make it? I'm new to the site, but I'll see if I can figure out how to post this question on the leather forum too...
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saxaphonium
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February 5th, 2010, 3:55 pm #24

Here they are! I changed the pattern a little bit, but this was a fantastic tutorial. Thanks very much!
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kardon33
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February 22nd, 2010, 3:38 pm #25

Thanks for the great tutorial, it was very easy to fallow. The only thing that I had to do was add a little more spacing to the part when marking the foot pattern. Instead of 1/4 in I used more like 1/2 on both sides. It might be because i have a high arch but who knows it worked for me.

Here's my first:

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joeyflores13
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February 27th, 2010, 12:09 pm #26

hi, i've used this thread to make myself two pair of these moccasins, and am extremely happy with the results. one thing i've found on the first pair, though, is that that soles ran through pretty quickly (i'm a traveller kid, i.e. hopping trains, packing, and 'hoofing' it). is there a way for me to somehow harden or make the soles of these moccs last longer? does anyone know what the natives used? i was thinking about adding a "double" sole by sewing on some 9oz buffalo leather i bartered while in north dakota. i've heard of pitching the leather with pine pitch as well.. any ideas? i love the moccasins, and bein a self-decided vagabond, these work perfect for me.

if any of you have any ideas, or suggestions, please email me at joeyflores13@gmail.com
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tallmidget
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March 5th, 2010, 5:49 pm #27

Hi everyone,
I'm new to the PaleoPlanet, but I have been running the woods, wandering around behind the little animals, so to speak, for some time.

I don't mean to take anything away from an excellent tutorial, however, In my experience, the moccasin pattern with the deep "V" cut at the toes, as shown in part 3 above, is a little uncomfortable, and not all that correct, if one is interested in historically correct patterns.

The pattern and instructions on the "Southern Indian Department" web page are as correct as they come. Mocs made from this pattern can be modified in any number of ways, including adding a blanket material liner, high tops, or whatever your fertile mind can think of.

http://www.southernindiandept.org/mocpattern.htm

enjoy

TM
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True2type
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March 21st, 2010, 7:05 am #28

What a selfless and generous thing you've done in providing this wonderfully detailed tutorial. Thank you.
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joeyflores13
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March 25th, 2010, 1:27 am #29

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Arko
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June 15th, 2010, 1:46 pm #30

Those are absolutly great looking mocs and a great play by play
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dulala
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October 27th, 2010, 12:59 pm #31

I make sure about this.so
if you're measuring the foot part 1/4" longer on the toe, and 1/4"
longer on the heel, and then cutting in 3/4", doesn't that make it too
short? Also, if I'm making a wool felt liner, how much bigger do I have
to make it? I'm new to the site, but I'll see if I can figure out how
to post this question on the leather forum too...






























































 
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dula
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October 27th, 2010, 1:00 pm #32

The only part of theology that could possibly demand my attention is the part that purports to demonstrate that God does exist. This part of theology I have, indeed, studied with considerable attention. And found it utterly wanting.
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miles37
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March 30th, 2011, 10:25 pm #33

Hi. I'm sorry - I really tried, to the point of getting a head-ache, but I did not understand any of the following two chunks(including the relevant pictures):


"Whipstitch the back of the heel to the sole, from the inside:
 
Now at last you can turn your moccasin right-side out. Run a wooden spoon firmly along the seams on the inside of the moc to smooth and flatten the seams. Put your moccasin on and pull the tab up the back of your heel until it is a smooth fit and mark that spot on the heel. Remove the moc and trim the corners of the tab to make it round.
 
Lining up the middle of the tab with the mark you just made, whipstitch it beginning at the top and down each side, making sure it stays centered on the back seam. When finished it will look like this:"


and:


"Whipstitch the upper to the boot with right sides together, beginning with the short side on the outside of the moc. You can see how this was done in the photos below:
  
Normally this is how uppers are stitched on, regardless of their height.
However, I had to make an adjustment in order to accommodate the unusual shape of the hind-leg section I chose for uppers on these moccasins. The widest part of the upper (ie the part that was cut straight) needed to be stitched to the boot, leaving the edge (ie the top part of the upper) to be folded over. Moreover, I wanted that fold to be on the outside of my leg rather than on the inside where they would rub together when I walk. Therefore, I whipstitched the short side of the upper to the inside of the boot, resulting in uppers which wrap outside over inside. Refer to the pictures below. Note that on the right foot the uppers wrap in a counter-clockwise direction (ie right over left) while on the left foot it wraps in a clockwise direction (ie left over right).
    


Thongs: Lastly, insert the awl through both the moccasin and the tongue as shown. Align the holes and insert the end of a thong and tie a knot in it. Repeat for the other three thongs. "


I understood the rest of the guide perfectly. Please could you help me out?


Thanks.
_________________________



Also... I'm planning to be ordering my leather from here: http://www.tandyleatherfactory.co.uk/home/home.aspx


How do I know what type of leather and what thickness I should order? They said I should get the economy sueded splits, but they are 2-4oz which is only 0.8 to 1.6mm thickness... They also said that most people who use their patterns make the moccasins use them as slippers in the house, but I'm going to be using mine outdoors in cold weather, but on natural surfaces only. So the guy said I would need to triple-layer my sole with these 2-4oz economy sueded splits to use them outside, but I don't know how I would do that with your guide or if I even need to...


Please help me out, I am moving to a colder country soon and will be outdoors all the time and I really need to have made these boots before I go...
Last edited by miles37 on March 30th, 2011, 11:24 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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coogs
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March 31st, 2011, 4:24 am #34

I haven’t checked this thread for a long time.  Thanks for all the responses.  I’ll try to address the questions and comments best I can.

@ Indoorsout:  Thanks for your feedback!

@ Montanadolphin:  So glad it worked out for you.! Wish I could see your pictures but the links are broken. J

@Caroline:  While I haven’t ever added an inner fleece, my recommendation would be to measure the thickness of the felt and add that measurement to the boot.  Let us know how that works if you are still around ok?

@ vette:  Sorry I’m so late in responding  and I hope you are enjoying your new grandbaby.   Beading can be a tricky topic here as some patterns do have spiritual meaning/significance and should be passed on by a Traditionalist who is the holder of that knowledge.  That said, there are numerous beading books that offer instructions, such as the “Beads to Buckskin” series by Peggy Sue Henry.  Our own Paleoplanet member Michael Bootz has an excellent beading tutorial in the Leather forum.  Let us know how you made out!

@krosenau:  Thanks, but youtube isn’t a great fit for lazy reclusives like me.  I’ll leave that for someone else to do.  Want a job? J

@saxaphonium:  Glad you figured it out and posted your results.  They look great!  Maybe you figured it out that the instructions are so that you get a better heal fit this way when you pull the tab up and stitch it.  I like snug-fitting mocs. J  The older native women around here will give you a good scolding for “sloppy mocs” lol.

@kardon33:  cool boots for sure!  The antler is a nice touch...i like!  A high arch is tricky; a tip for others is to take a piece of string and put it across the tallest part of your arch, measuring from the floor across the arch to the floor on the other side of your foot.  Stretch this piece of string across the upper portion of the pattern to make sure you’ve got the proper width (remember you WILL get some stretch with wear and you don’t want it to end up being too wide).  Well done!

@joeyflores13:  hey I think we maybe emailed each other.  I don’t have an answer for your question regarding soles but would like to know if you found one.  To be honest I’ve had mocs last many years (like 6 to 10 years) with hard summer outdoor use so this question is always a puzzle to me.  One thing for sure is that I do my best to steer clear of gravel and concrete as those are guaranteed sole-killers.  Other than that, I’ve been known to put duct-tape on the bottoms when it rains.  Your pictures are way cool!  You may find that having your stitches so exposed will lead to greater wear and eventual breakage.  I’d suggest either a welt or smaller stitches, so the thread gets buried between the layers of leather.  Great job!

@tallmidget:  Cute kid in your avatar!  I’ve never experienced discomfort from this pattern.  The V is not cut at the toes; the V makes the seam on the inside part of the foot.  As far as being historically correct, I disagree with you.  If you have Southern Plains moccasin experience you will appreciate that different Nations have different styles.  It would be great if you made a tutorial of the style(s) you are familiar with and posted it here.  My tutorial is based on what I’ve learned from various people from our Northern Plains people:  Blackfoot, Lakota/Nakota, and Tsuu T’ina.  The Cree folks I know typically use a different style.   No doubt the Southern Nations had different styles due to different geographical and climate concerns.  Thanks for your response, and my invitation to post your tutorial based on your experience is a sincere one. J

@True2type:  What a beautiful response that totally made my day!  Thank-you!

@Arko:  Thanks a lot! J

@dulala:  In case you don’t see my earlier response, the measurements I gave are to provide for a snug-fitting heal.  I’ve never made a felt liner but would suggest adding the thickness of the felt to the measurements of the mocc.  Or try putting the felt liner on your foot before tracing out your pattern to accommodate the added bulk.  Good luck.

@dula:  What are you on?

@miles37:  Welcome to the Planet.  I’m feeling at a loss to help you.  It doesn’t sound like you have started your mocs and so I’m going to suggest to you that the instructions will become clearer once you have the tactile and visual experience of actually making them.  If you get stuck at a particular spot, and have a clear question about that step, feel free to either email me (addy at beginning of tutorial) or post your specific question again on the leather forum.  I’ll do my best to help.  As far as the thickness of commercial leather, I’m sorry but I don’t know as I use my own braintanned leather.  Again, you may get some advice if you re-post on the leather forum.  As for using triple layers of leather, consider felt or leather insoles and adjust the “width” measurement by using the string technique I mentioned earlier in my response to kardon33.  Good luck and let us know!




Thanks everybody for your interest.  Makes me feel good.
May the forest be with you.
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Fedepythecus
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May 16th, 2011, 12:33 am #35

Thank you very much for this great tutorial. It is exactly what I was looking for.
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Caleb
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June 3rd, 2011, 3:44 pm #36

I stumbled across this tutorial while wandering aimlessly around the internet. I was absolutely amazed by it and felt that I had to give it a try. Unfortunately I don't have access to any leather other than store bought, but I still gave it a shot using some elk suede. This was my first time working with artificial sinew, and also my first time whipstitching (thanks for that helpful how-to as well). I had made a simpler low top pair of moccasins a while ago, mostly as a way to spend an afternoon. The results I got this time are much better I feel.



I sewed on an extra sole to the bottom. I'm not sure how quickly the leather will wear out (I guess we'll have to walk around to find out) but hopefully I can just replace the bottom sole and not the whole thing. For extra comfort I slipped in an insole of rabbit fur. These are so comfortable that I've been putting them on just to sit around the house.
The stitching is a little uneven and the right heel is a little wonky, but I don't really mind. These turned out better than I expected. Now I am thinking of all sorts of leather projects to make.

So thank you for the great instructions, and thanks for accidentally bringing this impressive community to my attention.
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coogs
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June 5th, 2011, 8:16 pm #37

Thanks for your enthusiastic responses guys.

Caleb I'm stoked by your success!  Way to go.  It looks like they turned out really nice, and the leather looks just fine. I give you big kudos for taking on this project with really no prior experience.  Your efforts produced a terrific result and I'm grateful you posted your pic and shared your experience.  Dude you rock!


It really is an impressive community here, like you say.  Glad you noticed and hope you stick around.
May the forest be with you.
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cmnickell60
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October 26th, 2011, 8:17 pm #38

hello...I have been looking all over for an idea of how much leather I would need to make a boot like this...I have a pattern from Tandy..with no instructions...and I need to have some idea of how much yardage I would need...I like your tutorial and will reference it when I run into trouble...Thank you...
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KHickam
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February 5th, 2012, 3:30 am #39

This was so helpful to make this type of mocassin - I had always used centerseam mocs before
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missymoo911
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March 13th, 2012, 2:24 am #40

Hey! Thank you so much for the tutorial! I haven't tried it yet because I don't have leather but I definitely will. What yardage would you suggest for the leather and do you know of anywhere where I can buy good leather? This is very great and detailed. you are amazing!
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