help with slabbed material

A collection of information for those just starting their flintknapping journey.
bannerstone
Registered User
Joined: 15 Apr 2004, 03:51

01 Apr 2006, 16:37 #41

I have learned a couple of things

1 my tool tips are not sharp enough

2 I am trying too hard to take looong flakes in stitching

3 Trying just to use arm strength to flake does not work as
well, use the legs

4 my platforms are not low enough "get em down"

Thanks Idaho Clovisman you are a great Help.

Now, I can get a softball size chunk of snowflake obsidian, can get bigger size if that would help.
How to spall?

Diane
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kyle
Registered User
Joined: 10 Oct 2005, 21:20

02 Apr 2006, 13:56 #42

Absolutely FABULOUS tutorial ICM. One of the best I've seen anywhere.
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Idaho Clovisman
Registered User
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 14:58

04 Apr 2006, 15:55 #43

Remember If you are taking flakes off the square edge then you are most likley above center line and you will get hinges if you are not very carefull..and if you skin one from the square edge there is no reason to then zig zag it just shear the edges take some small flakes and continue on...If God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?
We have learned that though there are many papers in Washington upon which are written promises to pay us for our lands,no white man seems to remember them.

Four Guns.
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eskimoboy
Registered User
Joined: 14 May 2005, 08:19

05 Apr 2006, 03:07 #44

Idaho Clovisman, you are a real guru with computers and knapping. I am glad you got on here. That is really helpful. Thanks
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Idaho Clovisman
Registered User
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 14:58

05 Apr 2006, 03:12 #45

LMAO i have a ton of stuff in my head to share with you guys,you guys just need to post more or ask more questions LOLIf God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?
We have learned that though there are many papers in Washington upon which are written promises to pay us for our lands,no white man seems to remember them.

Four Guns.
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PaleoAleo
Registered User
Joined: 14 Apr 2003, 21:09

05 Apr 2006, 05:19 #46

Yes, excellent indeed! Thanks Mike.

With your permission, I'd like to set this discussion up in a new "Beginner Knapper Area" or something with a similar name. This is just the kind of thing we need to capture and maintain in an easy to find area.

In the past, Charlie has created similar tutorials, with awesome paintbrush drawings. I'm embarassed to say that we didn't take care to set them up in a dedicated area.

With your permission, I'd like to do so with this one, and some of the others I see pinned to the top.

One problem with pinning topics, is that they are pinned to the top of each page - thus cutting into the number of discussions each page can handle (25 per page I think).

Anyway, we can set these "tutorial" type topics up in their own area, and we'll protect them forever, and have an easy reference for new folks who happen along.

Sound good to you guys and gals?

Tom
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ber643
Registered User
Joined: 28 Jan 2006, 09:08

05 Apr 2006, 09:35 #47

Especially important for these fine teutorials. I still say ICm should put out a book - I can't imagine that it wouldn't sell or that he couldn't find a pulisher with his instructions and photos. However, that takes time and for now, and in general, there is a real need for "us" to have access to his teuts. I am currently working on my first "logically done" slab and while it is still getting smaller it is also progressing towards better shape (lensatically), with better scars and less hinges,etc. In addition I feel like I am learning much more while working on it. Don't know yet if I'll get all the center skivved off (remains to be seen) but I do feel like it stands a better chance, and that my next one will stand an even better chance. thank you ICm and PaleoPlanet.Bernie - "Hunters Are People Too"
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Idaho Clovisman
Registered User
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 14:58

05 Apr 2006, 14:15 #48

yes i think it is a good Idea...in fact like flintknapping have it's own section why not make a beginners flintknapping section right under flintknapping and all the tutorials and how to threads can go in there then to reference any thing like that you simply go to one spot... i am working on part 3 of the pressure flaking a slab it will deal with making sure you get all the saw marks off,and it will get into detail about where to take flakes how to space them and how to use the ridge from the last flake you just took....hint!!! guys always flake away from the mass..in other words if you are holding the piece in your hand and the base is pointing away from you then flake from the base to tip NOT! the tip to base then you are flaking into the mass.. flakes peel away 100% easier when they have nothing but air on the side they are headed but when you try to take a flake and you are pushing into the mass it takes alot more pressure .....

Also coming up ,soft pad verses hard pad, form is the key to sucess...and this one will rufflle some feathers the power of the Ishi stick truth or Myth......lots to do this summer ... If God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?
We have learned that though there are many papers in Washington upon which are written promises to pay us for our lands,no white man seems to remember them.

Four Guns.
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Guest
Posts 0
Guest

05 Apr 2006, 16:10 #49

I agree. But lock the tutorials and/or possibly the whole forum from replies and new posts so that the two forums don't become so interchanged that the seperation is meaningless.
And maybe remove any extra posts/replies/comments that aren't part of the tutorial?
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PaleoAleo
Registered User
Joined: 14 Apr 2003, 21:09

05 Apr 2006, 16:22 #50

Excellent, I'll set things up at lunch time today (or when I get home from work).

Thanks to all of you guys for making this a very cool place to learn and make friends.

Tom
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stonefacescar
Registered User
Joined: 18 Apr 2004, 21:27

05 Apr 2006, 20:48 #51

Tom,, I posted this on the thread about point types but thought I'd put it here too,!

well I have to fess-up here too,!... I did some pinning also and planned on doing what you are talking about Tom, because it was a lot of the stuff that I had posted that had disappeared and I was bummed,!...

we will also have to address the situation of pic space,,, my photobucket account is near maxed out and I have to keep dumping old stuff to make room for new pics,, so old posts will suffer,!!,

we (forum) need to have a photo host that is accessable to the moderators and admins, so that we can "copy" pics and keep them in that dedicated host, not just using the URL of the pic, so they don't get lost, and stay with the article intact, instead of seeing those little red X's....for whatever reason,! ie....someones photo-host goes offline,,, whatever.......

I'll donate a knife, to start another auction "series" so we can round up the funds to buy some space,!.... what do you think???

Charlie
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PaleoAleo
Registered User
Joined: 14 Apr 2003, 21:09

05 Apr 2006, 21:53 #52

Charlie, I've felt badly about your photos and drawings disappearing over time!

ON the photo thing...we may have a tremendous solution coming down the line. One of the guys offered to host PaleoPlanet on a webserver that would give us unlimited space for everything, including photos. Photos would be stored on the webserver itself, and we wouldn't have to upload to photobucket, or other photo hosts. He said that he would be able to move everything on P.Planet over to the new site that he would create for us.

It sounds promising. I'm checking into it now. It would get us off of Ezboard, and solve lots of problems.

In the meanwhile, we can work out something with the photo host thing. My photo host only cost $35 - $50 bucks a year, and you can keep somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 photos on it. The problem is that I can't purchase the product and make it available to you other guys. Only one person can manage the photo albums. I just don't have time to do that for everyone. It would be a full time job in itself.

Lets hang in there a bit. In the meanwhile, I'll make the adjustments to the forum tonight and we can take it as it comes.

Thanks bro.

Tom
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Knapper42
Registered User
Joined: 17 Aug 2005, 04:57

06 Apr 2006, 13:02 #53

Here is a short Tips & Tricks for working slabs by Jim Winn. I borrowed it from KRU but I know Jim would not mind. Some pretty good info and another method of working slabs.
Jack

Try the following:
1) After removing the square edge, create a continous platform along the whole edge. Be sure it is perfectly straight.

2) You have 2 choices. If the slab is thick and wide you may create a platform very close to the face and shoot flakes flakes directly across the slab nearly to the opposite edge. Use a notched pad to do this. I frequently do this on wide slabs just to remove the saw marks. Contrary to popular belief, flakes will travel further on a flat surface than on a convex surfce. As convexity increases, flake travel decreases, and vica vera (note: this principal does not apply
when supporting the flake with leather, as in the Swoose method). The draw back is that step terminations are more likely the flatter the surface. Here is a trick: Shoot a long flake from one end directly across the slab at 90 degrees to the edge and attempt to go at least 1/2 way across the piece. If you angle your flake up just a bit is should feather terminate, but if it does not, no problem. What you do
is go to the oposite edge and shoot another flake back toward the first flake. It should undercut the flake and leave a nice clean termination. Now go back and run another flake parralel to the first flake removed. Then go to the opposite edge and run another flake back toward that flake. The beauty of this method is that is creates continuous ridges going from edge to edge, which helps the flakes to travel further. This technique also works well on percussion flaking.
I only use this method on wide slabs where it would be difficult to remove the saw marks by the more conventional method of establishing convexity first. Once the saw marks have been removed on both faces, 1 or 2 more passes are needed to establish convexity.

3) When removing the pressure flakes be careful not to press down too hard with the fingers supporting the slab. This is probably the biggest cause of breakage, too much bending stress! To avoid this, support the piece on the opposite edge and push the flakes straight in. Better yet, place your index finger on the opposite edge directly in line with the flake to be removed. Apply pressure directly toward your finger. If you do this correctly, you will often get a flake to travel from edge to edge, and you may also end up with a flake deeply
embedded in you figer tip! Ouch! I have done that many times. However I learned a trip watching Greg Nunn's DVD on making type 1C Danish daggers. He uses a simple leather thimble placed over his finger tip, the leather protecting his finger. I have been using this leather finger pad for the past year and really find it useful for parralel oblique pressure flaking. It reduces bending stress, allows the flake
to travel further, and especially when working obsidian it conserves your blood! Hope this helps...jim
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Idaho Clovisman
Registered User
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 14:58

08 Apr 2006, 01:26 #54

you guys let me know what you want me to do about the tutorial...i too am filling up my photo bucket account so whatever suggestions you got i am listening...If God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?
We have learned that though there are many papers in Washington upon which are written promises to pay us for our lands,no white man seems to remember them.

Four Guns.
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BOHUNTER
Registered User
Joined: 20 Feb 2006, 17:44

17 Apr 2006, 06:20 #55

SUPER Tutorial!

Im a good bopper knapper, decent Ishi sticker and good hand flaker. I just cant get those 1/4 slabs to hold up. Somehow I get above center line and snap it, or I get so scared of these 5 bucks an inch CORAL slabs they look like my first point!

Ive watched C. Ratzat video, watched several others, studied techniques and tried on less than 20 slabs. I might jsut get in a hurry, no ppatient for the flakes to release. Also I backed my rubber pad but Think my groove may be too wide also...Learned long ago to keep tools sharp!!!! You will make better points people.

Oh well...Ill beat rocks and work to Woody Status!

Steve
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Idaho Clovisman
Registered User
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 14:58

17 Apr 2006, 13:57 #56

Bo hunter you probably just need to learn to play the piano a term Craig uses at his class gently cradle your slabs with your finger tips do not squeeze tight when taking a flake that is the biggest cause for snapping to tight a grip on the slab also make sure your grip is very low on the slab not in the middle ... if you are taking flakes from the base area grip it around the tip area never where you are flaking....If God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?
We have learned that though there are many papers in Washington upon which are written promises to pay us for our lands,no white man seems to remember them.

Four Guns.
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bullgrouse
Registered User
Joined: 19 May 2004, 04:28

23 Apr 2006, 22:01 #57

Copied and edited into steps, by Denny B., from another posting, by ICM.

Ok, 1st in my tutorial about slabs--in fact on the picture at the top, I gave the sequence for knapping a slab. Let's review.

Start either, at the tip, or base--it does not matter, but pick one, and stick with it.

Ok, lets say you picked the base--I did .. Now, knap from the base to the tip. STOP!

Turn it over and knap from the base to the tip STOP!

Now, you have two opposite quarters knapped from base to tip.

NOW, swap ends and put the tip up. Knap from the tip to the base. STOP!

Turn it over, and do the other side, tip to base.

NOW, you have knapped all 4 quarters; and you have covered the whole slab.

The problem with doing it all on one side, is any flake that goofs up, or is short creates, a problem; and then you are flaking on to a flat surface, which has a problem straight across from it.

Also, you must make sure your platform is below center line, and is well ground.

OK now, when you hold the slab in your hand, against the pad; set the angle, so you are ALWAYS knapping towards your thumb. That is your angle; stick with it; always aim for the thumb, and you will develop a set angle.

hope this helps ...

If God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?"Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!"
"Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!"
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Idaho Clovisman
Registered User
Joined: 07 Mar 2006, 14:58

23 Apr 2006, 23:46 #58

your pad may be your problem sounds bending fractures it happens alot with stiff pads and besides you do not want a groove in your pad you want the flake supported the whole way...try with a soft pad and also try to grip the slab only with your fingertips and DO NOT GRIP it like it is trying to get away.... let me know if that helps..If God did Not want us to eat animals why did he make them out of meat?
We have learned that though there are many papers in Washington upon which are written promises to pay us for our lands,no white man seems to remember them.

Four Guns.
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pointsonashirtguy
Registered User
Joined: 02 May 2006, 20:44

02 May 2006, 21:16 #59

I host the PDF version of the Jim Winn Tutorial.

www.customimprintsbyleeparker.com/image ... orial2.PDF

About a 1.4 meg download, but worth it.
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iamanbk
Registered User
Joined: 23 Jan 2007, 12:41

23 Jan 2007, 05:41 #60

I have been knaping for about 5 months, making a little progress here and there, but slabs have been driving me crazy. I looked at this tutorial for about 5 minutes, went downsstairs and in short order, had a pretty good preform. The best I've made from a slab yet. Thank you very much!

Jeff

"Reality is something you rise above."
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