howweird
Registered User
howweird
Registered User
Joined: April 13th, 2006, 7:32 am

September 9th, 2006, 12:07 am #21

Tim ,
I do beleave that the tree hold is very good for target shooting , but for hunting I like one above and rwo below for a good arrow release in wooded condtions .
I am sure others do use the three in the woods and have great luck in doing so , but to have one less thing go worng the one above and two below is in my eyes a better hold for such activity .
I do !!! use the tree on targets I like the three hold even if I shoot instinctive there as well . In a feild with no trees and bruch to push a arrow of its string it is a very good hold .
Howard
Quote
Like
Share

Tim Baker
Registered User
Tim Baker
Registered User
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 6:22 am

September 9th, 2006, 12:29 am #22

Woodbear: Would this setup have more rotational force than a two-under, positive-tillered bow, or the Japanese Yumi with it's roughly one-third, two-third grip placement? In other words, does it matter in real life shooing?

About those 'modern' snap nocks: Jay Massey and I were chronographing bows at Dr. Bert Grayson's one day, Bert using snap-on nocks. They looked identical to present store-bought, but had a dull finish, not like the typical plastic you see. When I asked him why, he said it was because the nocks were horn. I asked who in the world would go to the trouble of manufacturing horn nocks when plastic did the job as well. Turns out he'd dipped into his collection and was using several hundred year old nocks from the middle east. Tim
Quote
Like
Share

Tim Baker
Registered User
Tim Baker
Registered User
Joined: May 23rd, 2005, 6:22 am

September 9th, 2006, 1:03 am #23

George: Yes, long shot accuracy would suffer. It seems twenty-yard and closer accuracy would rise. Personally three under seems awkward. I'm curious to see what % of hunters use it.

If all three fingers exert equal pressure you'll still get that V location in the drawing. But even with different pressures the center of string force will be just a touch higher or lower.

If the center of that soft V is square to bow center and hand pressure then all forces are symmetrical. No extra stress on one limb to correct for. Tim
Quote
Like
Share

2traxx
Registered User
2traxx
Registered User
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 9:16 am

September 9th, 2006, 1:08 am #24

I have heard the 3 under style,refered to as Apache draw,many times myself.Strange thing is,that the 3 under draw,that they used,was not the same style as we use today.They did use 3 fingers under,but augmented it by useing the thumb,on the shaft as well.Also,the Apache,used various ways of gripping the string,even among the same band.A good example of this,is in Jim Hamm's book,Bows and arrows of the native americans.In this book,is a pic of 3 Apache men,with their bows in hand.If you look close,you can see,that all 3 of them are useing different styles.
Quote
Like
Share

PaleoAleo
Registered User
PaleoAleo
Registered User
Joined: April 14th, 2003, 9:09 pm

September 9th, 2006, 1:32 am #25

I tried it when I used to target shoot with recurves. Some string-walkers told me it was the way to go. These guys were really serious olympic style target shooters, and they were obviously into extreme precision.

Three under always felt strange to me - as if I didn't have control of the arrow. Also, it never seemed to matter that much getting the arrow closer under your eye, unless you're using the tip of the arrow as a sighting device, or looking down the arrow as a siting device. With instinctual gap shooting, it doesn't seem to matter much at all.

but these are just my views and impressions. I'm definitely not suggesting that one way is better than another, lest anyone think I'm knocking their way.

Tom
Quote
Like
Share

George Tsoukalas
Registered User
George Tsoukalas
Registered User
Joined: May 24th, 2005, 3:38 am

September 9th, 2006, 1:27 pm #26

2trax, I stand corrected. I think you are right about the release they used. Tim, you may be right; there's an easy test to see. Draw a bow tillered for the 2 above, 1 under release in front of a full length mirror. Check again with the 3 under and note tiller both times. I'd do it but I'm not shooting yet (hernia fixed Aug. 15. I tiller my bows for the way ii shoot so I can't say for sure. Jawgehttp://mysite.verizon.net/georgeandjoni
Quote
Like
Share

Klandaght
Registered User
Klandaght
Registered User
Joined: September 17th, 2005, 9:51 pm

September 9th, 2006, 2:19 pm #27

" One might ask, why would it not be more desirable to draw higher yet, say to the eye, where the archer could aim directly down the shaft? I have found that if one does so and uses the upper part of the cheek bone to anchor on, the pressure of the hand along the face will distort or change the vision. Besides, such a draw throws the right arm muscles so much out of alignment in bringing the right hand this high, that one is unable to hold or draw a bow of sufficient poundage for hunting purposes." - Howard Hill pg.66 from Hunting the Hard Way.

It's hard to argue with his shooting ability and he shot more arrows in his lifetime than most of us together will ever shoot.

Granted, I believe he was referring to elevating the 2 under, 1 over to just under the eye.

Question for 3 under shooters. Is your anchor location on your face the same whether 2 under or 3 under?

Personally, I shoot 2 under and also need my nocking point above 90 degrees (sometimes 1/4"+)for clean arrow flight.
Quote
Like
Share

2traxx
Registered User
2traxx
Registered User
Joined: April 15th, 2004, 9:16 am

September 9th, 2006, 6:30 pm #28

Jawge,
That post,wasn't directed to you.It was more of a thinkin out loud,and wondering why it has been termed that,when it is not really correct.You are certainly not the person who dubbed it that and i have heard this term from many through the years.
Klandaght,
I use my index finer,in my lips,with the other 2 resting on my chin.the rest of my hand,kinda curves around and under my jaw,if that makes any sense.I see other 3 under shooter,anchor way up high,with middle finger in corner,in mouth and gunbarrel down the shaft.
Quote
Like
Share

chuckduster01
Registered User
chuckduster01
Registered User
Joined: September 17th, 2010, 8:41 pm

December 12th, 2010, 8:01 am #29

I have shot apache draw for over 25 years. I do a somewhat slow/deliberate snapshot draw and release the instant my index finger contacts the corner of my lips. It is what put the arrows where I wanted them to go and what just felt right to me when I first picked up my little red **** recurve.  I have used it ever since and it has served me well. I have tried the 2 under  1 over a few times and it just feels wrong to me and changes my impact point about 2 inches at 20 yards.   I do not think I could change now if I had to. I have shot this way with both glass/wood and selfbows and have seen zero difference, so for me at least it does not matter much on bow construction.  Nocks do not matter either loose ,snap, plastic, self..... but I have a wrapped nock point of dental floss on all my bows and my index finger is exerting some upward pressure on my nock pressing it into my dental floss ball.

I am not consiously using any part of the arrow or "gunbarrelling" and am definately not unconciously using the tip as a sight as arrow length does not affect P.O.I.   Not to sound too braggy but I outshoot alot of them contaption shooters out to 30 yards and was very competitive in a few winter leagues that included mostly contraptions and only one or two other real bows. It works for me and I do not see me trying to change anything now.  I shoot this way...I hunt this way....I kill this way.....It works FOR ME............why mess with success eh?
This space for rent....cheap rates....weekly, monthly, yearly.  
Quote
Like
Share

Rod
Registered User
Rod
Registered User
Joined: June 17th, 2005, 11:07 pm

November 17th, 2012, 10:50 am #30

Tim Baker wrote:It seems that shooting with three fingers under puts the arrow nock closer to the eye, reducing parallax, increasing aiming accuracy at most woodbow hunting distances. No? Tim
The main function of three under is to bring the "point on" distance closer for the modern close range bow-hunter, which is why it is probably the predominant style in modern traditional bowhunting.
Ask this about any culture, their usual choice of anchor and draw-length and about their common shooting distance for their specific or most frequent task and we will usually see the reason for the choice as being the relationship between anchor location and the point on distance created.

fwiw

Rod.

  
It's meant to be simple, not easy.
Quote
Like
Share