California, Pit River pithouse design?

For discussion related to the Paleolithic encampment - Building structures, materials, methods of construction, tools and other items around the camp/home.
Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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October 27th, 2017, 10:29 pm #41

Could be quite a disaster in a big wind but you built in a forest so should be fairly calm.
Still would be a good place to snuggle down in.  Well done.

Common practice among First Nations here to move camps not for the seasons but for the harvests.
Salmon can spawn a thousand (?) miles up river, even further east from my place. 

The top of the Fraser River is a place called Rear Guard Falls.  No salmon can jump that.  Fact.
The nearest major camp was the Simpcw people at Tete Jaune Cache.  
They got evicted as europeans wanted that land.
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Tomas
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Tomas
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October 29th, 2017, 5:51 pm #42

Hello Ramaytush

You seem to have mastered the Miwok conical bark shelter, it would seem you only need to add the 'pit house' feature that historical sources seem to state were the year round dwellings of the Miwok peoples .... here are some further sources,,,






https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/ima ... helter.jpg



http://historicaldesign.com/wp-content/ ... kets_4.png

All The Best

Tomas
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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October 30th, 2017, 5:50 am #43

Thanks.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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November 19th, 2017, 2:31 am #44

This link has a few pictures of bark houses, sweat lodges and "sweat lodges?" That look like pithouses


http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt4 ... =Sawos.Org
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Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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November 19th, 2017, 3:17 am #45

"Sweats" are important and permanent structures in every village. 
Their ceremonial value is too great to denigrate as some shabby hobo hut.
They do look like pit houses because they are ceremonial pit houses.
There are others erected as circumstance requires.

As you might expect, they are not notions of antiquity but
very much used in this day and time.

In my brother's quest to rediscover the location of Mistaseni, he did many sweats.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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November 19th, 2017, 7:49 am #46

I'm not sure if I posted this link before but there are descriptions of two types of structures that were built. From the bottom of page 210-211. Seems to be describing the tcimaha sweathouse picture in the previous link? http://soda.sou.edu/awdata/030813a1.pdf
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Robson Valley
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November 19th, 2017, 4:34 pm #47

ramatush:  thanks.  That's a great read.  p211-213 describes their food diversity in that ecological district.

The pit house shape, design and depth are what I'd call average.  Winter living.  No specific detail of temperature
but it could never be as bad (-40F) as here.  Pit houses here are 3-6' deep, wood pole roof and covered with 12" - 24" of soil excavated from the pit.  Some 20-30' in diameter.  Modern replicas are built supervised by native elders.
One major difference here is that there's a door/hallway in the side of the pit house, no ladder in the smoke hole.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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November 19th, 2017, 10:50 pm #48

Can you imagine the design based on the description? I don't really understand what beam on the front is for, just lays across the ground or something? Or support for the poles that make up the wall over the draft hole?
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Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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November 20th, 2017, 3:31 am #49

The small sweat houses with bent-wood frames are used east of me for ceremonial purposes.
They are erected as needed.
  Not so much space to be heated.
The images with the big logs look to me like ordinary pit houses, meant to last many winters.

A common design is 4 vertical posts to represent the 4 corners of the earth. 
All the other frame and roof logs are added to that.  Often, there is a covered cold air channel 
in the floor to supply the central fire.  That cut down on draft pull from the flames.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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December 11th, 2017, 1:50 am #50

Can I use eucalyptus poles for a tipi? The other option right now would be Douglas fir
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Tomas
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December 11th, 2017, 9:43 am #51

Hello Rama

As for using Eucalyptus poles the folks of Tipi Valley (Portugal) say you can as that is what they ....

http://www.surfalgarve.com/large-tipi/

All The Best

Tomas
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Tomas
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December 11th, 2017, 9:50 am #52

Hello Rama

Yes to Douglas Fir also....

http://www.arrowtipi.com/instructions/m ... own-poles/

Tomas
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Tomas
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Tomas
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April 3rd, 2018, 4:11 am #53

Hello Ramaytush


The book passage below comes with an illustration of the Sami ‘Kata’ Tent forked pole system that provides the framework for their tipi like conical tents.

Having studied the illustration and some simple model experiments it seems possible to show you how the system works and within reason it might be possible to be raised by a single person.

While the Kata forked pole is a tripod system the Hidatsa four pole method seems quite similar and while the fourth pole does not add to the strength of the tripod when added it might add to the locking of the poles to eliminate any drift that might occur.

Will try to get you pictures or video instructions soon.

All The Best

Tomas

Tents: Architecture of the Nomads - Page 119

Torvald Faegre - 1979 - ‎

The Lapps Kata is the Lapp name for their conical homes. There are three types: turf kata, forked-pole kata, and curved-pole kata. The turf kata is a sedentary house. It uses the same basic frame system as the curved-pole kata, but the frame is much heavier and the structure is covered with logs and turf. The forked-pole kata is built much like other semiportable tents of the taiga. The frame , which is a cone of forked poles, is left standing when the Lapps move and only ...
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