California, Pit River pithouse design?

For discussion related to the Paleolithic encampment - Building structures, materials, methods of construction, tools and other items around the camp/home.
Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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27 Oct 2017, 22:29 #41

Could be quite a disaster in a big wind but you built in a forest so should be fairly calm.
Still would be a good place to snuggle down in.  Well done.

Common practice among First Nations here to move camps not for the seasons but for the harvests.
Salmon can spawn a thousand (?) miles up river, even further east from my place. 

The top of the Fraser River is a place called Rear Guard Falls.  No salmon can jump that.  Fact.
The nearest major camp was the Simpcw people at Tete Jaune Cache.  
They got evicted as europeans wanted that land.
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Tomas
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Tomas
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29 Oct 2017, 17:51 #42

Hello Ramaytush

You seem to have mastered the Miwok conical bark shelter, it would seem you only need to add the 'pit house' feature that historical sources seem to state were the year round dwellings of the Miwok peoples .... here are some further sources,,,






https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/ima ... helter.jpg



http://historicaldesign.com/wp-content/ ... kets_4.png

All The Best

Tomas
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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30 Oct 2017, 05:50 #43

Thanks.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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19 Nov 2017, 02:31 #44

This link has a few pictures of bark houses, sweat lodges and "sweat lodges?" That look like pithouses


http://content.cdlib.org/view?docId=kt4 ... =Sawos.Org
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Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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19 Nov 2017, 03:17 #45

"Sweats" are important and permanent structures in every village. 
Their ceremonial value is too great to denigrate as some shabby hobo hut.
They do look like pit houses because they are ceremonial pit houses.
There are others erected as circumstance requires.

As you might expect, they are not notions of antiquity but
very much used in this day and time.

In my brother's quest to rediscover the location of Mistaseni, he did many sweats.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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19 Nov 2017, 07:49 #46

I'm not sure if I posted this link before but there are descriptions of two types of structures that were built. From the bottom of page 210-211. Seems to be describing the tcimaha sweathouse picture in the previous link? http://soda.sou.edu/awdata/030813a1.pdf
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Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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19 Nov 2017, 16:34 #47

ramatush:  thanks.  That's a great read.  p211-213 describes their food diversity in that ecological district.

The pit house shape, design and depth are what I'd call average.  Winter living.  No specific detail of temperature
but it could never be as bad (-40F) as here.  Pit houses here are 3-6' deep, wood pole roof and covered with 12" - 24" of soil excavated from the pit.  Some 20-30' in diameter.  Modern replicas are built supervised by native elders.
One major difference here is that there's a door/hallway in the side of the pit house, no ladder in the smoke hole.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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19 Nov 2017, 22:50 #48

Can you imagine the design based on the description? I don't really understand what beam on the front is for, just lays across the ground or something? Or support for the poles that make up the wall over the draft hole?
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Robson Valley
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Robson Valley
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20 Nov 2017, 03:31 #49

The small sweat houses with bent-wood frames are used east of me for ceremonial purposes.
They are erected as needed.
  Not so much space to be heated.
The images with the big logs look to me like ordinary pit houses, meant to last many winters.

A common design is 4 vertical posts to represent the 4 corners of the earth. 
All the other frame and roof logs are added to that.  Often, there is a covered cold air channel 
in the floor to supply the central fire.  That cut down on draft pull from the flames.
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ramaytush
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ramaytush
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11 Dec 2017, 01:50 #50

Can I use eucalyptus poles for a tipi? The other option right now would be Douglas fir
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Tomas
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Tomas
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11 Dec 2017, 09:43 #51

Hello Rama

As for using Eucalyptus poles the folks of Tipi Valley (Portugal) say you can as that is what they ....

http://www.surfalgarve.com/large-tipi/

All The Best

Tomas
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Tomas
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Tomas
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11 Dec 2017, 09:50 #52

Hello Rama

Yes to Douglas Fir also....

http://www.arrowtipi.com/instructions/m ... own-poles/

Tomas
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