Ambush Bow Challenge II: Jury Revision

Brian Halbleib
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Brian Halbleib
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Joined: September 8th, 2005, 6:36 pm

April 2nd, 2007, 5:21 pm #1

We've changed the jury selection process. It now requires your perspective and your voice. Popular vote will decide which bows receive an Invitation to The Final Test.

Shortly after the June 1 entry deadline, all the entries will be displayed on the Bowyer's Journal website and each IP address will have 9 online votes, three per category, enabling you to determine which bows merit closer inspection with an Invitation.

This change means that online entries will be acceptable after all. All other entry specifications remain the same. Entries that arrive by postal mail, as originally requested, will be scanned and posted to the website ballot. In other words, every entry, no matter its format, will receive a place on the ballot.

Please check "The Bowyer's Journal Magazine", its online site, [url=http://www.bowyersjournal.com,]www.bowyersjournal.com,[/url] or www.bowyersedge.com for updates. The www.bowyersjournalboard.com bulletin board also contains a forum devoted exclusively to ABC discussion.

Use these links for contest information:
www.bowyersedge.com/ABC_06.html
www.bowyersedge.com/ABC_07.html

We will continue to improve the Challenge every way we can, and we always welcome your thoughtful suggestions.

Don't miss this opportunity to challenge yourself.
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NorthShorelongbow
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NorthShorelongbow
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April 2nd, 2007, 5:24 pm #2

Who won last year ???

any pictures of the bow ??
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Brian Halbleib
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April 2nd, 2007, 5:48 pm #3

Yes, you can see pics and read a summary here: www.bowyersedge.com/ABC_06fin.html

-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com
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NorthShorelongbow
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NorthShorelongbow
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April 2nd, 2007, 5:55 pm #4

thanks Brian
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Hin Kraka
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Hin Kraka
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:00 pm #5

When this last ABC came up I asked a question that was never really satisfactorily answered. I simply asked what is the definition of an ambush bow. It sounds kind of cool and awesome, but I never really got a grip of it.
Can someone please enlighten me?//Jakob - having no life at the present. Call me back in a lifetime or two.
//Jakob - too little time for all interest and hobbies!
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Brian Halbleib
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:06 pm #6

There's obviously no "one" definition of ambush bow. We have come up with a set of criteria for "one style" of ambush bow which we have used for the challenge. And keep that in mind, this is a "challenge", not a contest, that we all learn from.

Here's more:
www.bowyersjournal.com/page2.html

The jury revisions have not been updated on that link yet so keep that in mind.

-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com
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toxophileken
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toxophileken
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:06 pm #7

Don't know myself Jakob, but somebody has a pretty strong and specific opinion. I read it somewhere, in the contest rules, I think.

Maybe you can find it on one of those links posted above.

There were specific guidelines, but they all seemed to be very subjective (and possibly a bit arbitrary) when it came to actually judging a bow, at least to me...

"Balanced in the hand," "quick pointing", "forgiving", things like that. Then there were some criteria more easily measured or quantified... Able to be strung all day and not lose cast, able to cast heavy and light arrows at similar trajectory at close range (although this caused a bit of confusion to some, if I remember correctly), etc... Also, there were specific length, draw length, and draw weight requirements.

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

Ken
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NorthShorelongbow
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NorthShorelongbow
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:08 pm #8

Good on TIMO, I always liked the guy
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Brian Halbleib
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Brian Halbleib
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:14 pm #9

"We will continue to improve the Challenge every way we can, and we welcome your thoughtful suggestions."

Ken, we would be interested in hearing how we can make improvements.

-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com
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tom sawyer
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:21 pm #10

I believe this last issue of Bowyers Journal had the new criteria. Grab yourself a copy, better yet subscribe.

Brian, can't say I'm thrilled by making the semifinals a popular vote. I kind of think the experts would do a better job. I think I know where you're coing from though, more people involved in all aspects of the contest.
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tom sawyer
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April 2nd, 2007, 6:26 pm #11

Ken the only criteria I think were somewhat at odds, was the requirement that the bow be able to stay strung for hours without losing cast, and that it be easily strung even from a seated position, and that it be 60+lb. Why unstring it while hunting if the bow can survive being strung for a day-long hunt? And how do you string a 60lb bow while seated?

The basic criteria are sound in theory, if somewhat difficult to gauge. As I understood it, there were no chronographs used in judging.

I have a candidate or two for this year's contest. Knowing some of the people who got in last year's finals, I think there was sound judgement used in the selection process.
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toxophileken
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toxophileken
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April 2nd, 2007, 7:44 pm #12

My sincere apologies for sounding overly critical. That was not my intention.

It is always easy to point a finger, and find flaws, and to be negative. I don't want to be that type of person...

I can see where my post could easily be taken in a negative light...

I stand by my statement that some of the criteria were subjective, and some were more easily quantifiable and measureable.

As far as my words to the effect that "somebody has a strong and specific opinion", and that some of the criteria might "possibly be a bit arbitrary", I can see where those statements could be taken as derogatory or negative. They were not intended as such, but I should have chosen my words more carefully.

It is obvious that some criteria will be arbitrary in any such challenge or even a contest... I put some arbitrary criteria in place myself, when I suggested a poplar bow challenge.

I hope that if folks re read my post, realizing I was not trying to be critical, they will see that my statements are true enough, but not necessarily fair. My hope is that I can always be not only truthful, but fair as well.

Thanks Brian, for your post and your politeness to me. I have no such suggestions at this time, and so should definitely keep any overt or implied criticism to myself.

Ken
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toxophileken
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toxophileken
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April 2nd, 2007, 7:59 pm #13

Quote:
There were specific guidelines, but they all seemed to be very subjective (and possibly a bit arbitrary) when it came to actually judging a bow, at least to me...
If I had typed "...many of them seemed..." rather than "...they all seemed...", maybe my comments would have been at least a little more fair (and accurate).

Lenny, the seated stringing rule would be an example of something that could be considered a bit subjective... Some guys can do it, and some guys have trouble.

For what it's worth, having good judges in charge is a good way of making sure subjective criteria are judged with wisdom. I am sure such will be the case in this coming challenge, just as was so in the previous one.

Thanks to the guys who are going to all the trouble of putting these challenges on, and the ones who are making bows for them... We all benefit from your efforts.

Ken
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Brian Halbleib
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April 2nd, 2007, 10:31 pm #14

No, please DO NOT keep the criticism to yourself, we want ALL input, positive AND negative! Your post was not taken out of context, we recognized the problems from last year and hope to build on the positives.

Regardless if everyone agrees on the criteria or not (obviously not everyone will, or ever will on any subject) it was an incredible learning experience for all of those involved and to those who followed along. Picking a "winner" is the natural outcome of such a challenge but is by no means the final goal.

It was extremely interesting to see what would work in that situation and what failed...and, more importantly, WHY it worked or WHY it failed. There's a lot to be gained from an experiment like this.

From it's inception, The Bowyer's Journal magazine has invited all bowyers to participate and share ALL methods of bow building. Most embraced that idea but a few turned their backs. We couldn't wait around for them to jump on board but they are STILL always welcome to join in anytime.

We all have the same bow building disease. There's nothing wrong with sharing therapies, even if they do nothing to ease the other's symptoms...

-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com
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badger5149
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badger5149
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April 2nd, 2007, 10:38 pm #15

Brian, I agree and am glad to see that you guys are making adjustments as you see the need. As you say you can't please everyone. I will give it a try tis time. Steve
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tom sawyer
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April 3rd, 2007, 2:09 am #16

Ken we know you meant no harm, your good nature is well known among us. The way I look at it, if you make a good bow of the dimensions they are asking for, and you think it is a good hunting bow then that is all that matters. Your problem is your long arms, for you a brush bow is what 64"?

I just don't see how letting the internet bowyering public pick the final contestants is going to make the contest better. But we'll see, the cream always seems to rise to the top one way or another.

I was amazed at how few contestants submitted bows last year. I thought there would be over 100 easliy. Hopefully there will be that many this year.

Brian, how do you measure draw length? Official AMO or simply pulling a 29" arrow to within an inch of the back of the riser?
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Salvador6
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April 3rd, 2007, 11:42 pm #17

I think some guys have performance anxiety. At least one of my friends had a pretty nice bow, with a fresh perspective for a board bow. He couldn't finish it in time, but will submit it to the next one.
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