A question on God and homosexuality

A question on God and homosexuality

confused
confused

June 30th, 2007, 3:23 am #1

Hi there...I was wondering why homosexuality is considered to be a sin? I was reading a post on one of the websites, someone was asking about homoseuxality and one of the repliers wrote back mentioning that it was a sin to be gay. I don't have anything against gay people, and I think they do not have a choice in the matter. Some people I know (theyre all religous) think people chose to be gay. One cannot simply wake up one morning and say..."hmmm I think I'd like to hook up with the same sex from now on". I personally think they are born that way, "but didnt God create man?" Gay people are usually stuck in the closet for a long time....they do not feel comfortable with their sexuality, so if they "CHOSE" to be gay...why are they ashamed???? They apparently "CHOSE" to be gay....why hide it?....So can anyone give me answer as to why God created a sin? And isnt he suppose to love us no matter what?
Quote
Share

Wondering
Wondering

June 30th, 2007, 3:29 pm #2

I don't believe being gay is something that you choose. As long as you treat each other with respect and kindness, that is what matters.
Quote
Share

dada
dada

July 1st, 2007, 7:14 am #3

Hi there...I was wondering why homosexuality is considered to be a sin? I was reading a post on one of the websites, someone was asking about homoseuxality and one of the repliers wrote back mentioning that it was a sin to be gay. I don't have anything against gay people, and I think they do not have a choice in the matter. Some people I know (theyre all religous) think people chose to be gay. One cannot simply wake up one morning and say..."hmmm I think I'd like to hook up with the same sex from now on". I personally think they are born that way, "but didnt God create man?" Gay people are usually stuck in the closet for a long time....they do not feel comfortable with their sexuality, so if they "CHOSE" to be gay...why are they ashamed???? They apparently "CHOSE" to be gay....why hide it?....So can anyone give me answer as to why God created a sin? And isnt he suppose to love us no matter what?
Everyone is a sinner, so gays may be sinners but no more than anyone else even when we're babies we are sinners we are born sinners.


Poll shows most Americans believe gays cannot change their orientation

By Taylor Gandossy

(CNN)-- After five years of trying to date girls and to conform and conceal his sexuality, 18-year-old Steven Field told his friends and family that he was gay.

"I wasn't being honest to myself," Field, now 25, said of his closeted high school years in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois.

Being gay was natural for him, Field, who lives in Washington, said in a Thursday phone interview. "I didn't choose to be gay anymore than straight people choose to be straight."

To those who would disagree with him, Field said, "You don't choose who you love."

Field is not alone in thinking that sexual orientation is a fixed element of a person. Whether homosexuality is innate or whether it is acquired -- the age-old nature versus nurture debate -- has long shaped the political and social discussion over gay rights.

Over the years, the genetically based argument has found increasing support among Americans, according to polls. More and more people now believe that homosexuality is a permanent, immutable part of a person, much like fingerprints or eye color.

According to a CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Wednesday, 56 percent of Americans believe that gays and lesbians could not change their sexual orientation even if they wanted to do so -- the first time that a majority has held that belief regarding homosexuality since CNN first posed the question nearly 10 years ago.

The sampling error for the results is plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.

Six years ago, 45 percent of Americans responding to a CNN/USA/Gallup Poll said gays and lesbians could not change their sexual orientation. And in 1998, the number was 36 percent, according to a CNN/Time poll.

The latest poll results affirmed what many gay and lesbians see as a shift in attitude across the country toward homosexuality. Even in the face of state legislation that denies gays the right to marry or to form civil unions, more Americans are now accepting of homosexuality, gays and lesbians say.

For the Rev. Mel White, the founder and president of faith-based gay rights group Soulforce, the poll results were a "tremendous relief."

"The poll is such good news," White said Thursday. "Over half of America thinks we don't have to be healed from a sickness; suddenly we are OK as we are."
Quote
Share

Maienduo
Maienduo

July 2nd, 2007, 3:35 am #4

God created Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve

There is no same sex in other animal kingdom, but where did man get his idea of homosexuallity?
It must be from Devil himself. Hopefully you can learn from Sodom and Gomorroh.
Quote
Share

JJ
JJ

July 2nd, 2007, 5:35 am #5

God created man wondefully and was good in his sight,he made man from soil and breath the breath of life into him, women was made from man side to be his helper,
Devil came decieved mankind, he has done now to spoil the model God creation to invent lies (for he is the father of lies)to tell men that they are homos,thats what some men believed and acted that way by lustful desires.
When talking about rights, Yes you have the God given right as a man and women to be what we are.Not to have two same sex having sex, that when Lust of the flesh come to satify your flesh.
The bible clearly say,lies,adulteres,homosexuas,murderes and etc: shall not herite the kindom of god,that means straight to HELL mate.
Forget about so call human rights,these h/rights will pass away but the law of the Lord will be always there.
So tokim ol narapela lus tingting lo pasim pamuk na kisim Jesus lo laip bilong ol,em tasol em rot tru.........

Jesus Is Lord
Quote
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

July 2nd, 2007, 8:32 pm #6

Hi there...I was wondering why homosexuality is considered to be a sin? I was reading a post on one of the websites, someone was asking about homoseuxality and one of the repliers wrote back mentioning that it was a sin to be gay. I don't have anything against gay people, and I think they do not have a choice in the matter. Some people I know (theyre all religous) think people chose to be gay. One cannot simply wake up one morning and say..."hmmm I think I'd like to hook up with the same sex from now on". I personally think they are born that way, "but didnt God create man?" Gay people are usually stuck in the closet for a long time....they do not feel comfortable with their sexuality, so if they "CHOSE" to be gay...why are they ashamed???? They apparently "CHOSE" to be gay....why hide it?....So can anyone give me answer as to why God created a sin? And isnt he suppose to love us no matter what?
Confused, just because the world accepts it doesn't mean it is right....read in Lev Chapt 18 (esp verse 22)(not a bible scholar, maybe one can enlighten)-those are some of the laws that were passed down in the time of Moses...the Good Lord forbids such behaviours. Remember, where there is light, there is no darkness and the two do not go together! Don't let the devil deceive you.
Quote
Share

Pastor Loki
Pastor Loki

July 3rd, 2007, 3:09 pm #7

God created Adam and Eve NOT Adam and Steve

There is no same sex in other animal kingdom, but where did man get his idea of homosexuallity?
It must be from Devil himself. Hopefully you can learn from Sodom and Gomorroh.
Once again fundamentalist Christians demonstrate that their faith is mostly due to incredible ignorance.

Are animals being sinful towards God or did God bless this following gay behaviours:


Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
James Owen in London
for National Geographic News
July 23, 2004

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.

Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn't risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day "the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing—sex between a male and female.

But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.

She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."
Sexual Gratification

On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. "They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says. "They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."

Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."
The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals.

Other animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. For instance, male dolphin calves often form temporary sexual partnerships, which scientists believe help to establish lifelong bonds. Such sexual behavior has been documented only relatively recently. Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.

"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural.

In the U.S., in particular, the moral debate over this issue rages on. Many on the religious right regard homosexuality as a sin. And only this month, President Bush vowed to continue his bid to ban gay marriages after the Senate blocked the proposal.

Already, cases of animal homosexuality have been cited in successful court cases brought against states like Texas, where gay sex was, until recently, illegal.

Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society. For instance, infanticide, as practiced by lions and many other animals, isn't something people, gay or straight, generally approve of in humans.


Human Homosexuality

So how far can we go in using animals to help us understand human homosexuality? Robin Dunbar is a professor of evolutionary psychology at the University of Liverpool, England. "The bottom line is that anything that happens in other primates, and particularly other apes, is likely to have strong evolutionary continuity with what happens in humans," he said.
Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."

For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added.

Another suggestion is that homosexuality is a developmental phase people go through. He said, "This is similar to the argument of play in young animals to get their brain and muscles to work effectively and together. Off the back of this, there's the possibility you can get individuals locked into this phase for the rest of their lives as a result of the social environment they grow up in."

But he adds that homosexuality doesn't necessarily have to have a function. It could be a spin-off or by-product of something else and in itself carries no evolutionary weight."

He cites sexual gratification, which encourages procreation, as an example. "An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds.
In other words, if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex, as suggested by the actions of the bonobos and macaques. However, as Dunbar admits, there's a long way to go before the causes of homosexuality in humans are fully understood.

He said, "Nobody's really investigated this issue thoroughly, because it's so politically sensitive. It's fair to say all possibilities are still open."

Quote
Share

Mangi Levi
Mangi Levi

July 3rd, 2007, 3:25 pm #8

Confused, just because the world accepts it doesn't mean it is right....read in Lev Chapt 18 (esp verse 22)(not a bible scholar, maybe one can enlighten)-those are some of the laws that were passed down in the time of Moses...the Good Lord forbids such behaviours. Remember, where there is light, there is no darkness and the two do not go together! Don't let the devil deceive you.
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your Biblical quote, and will try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them because our Bible teachers are not confronting these puzzles in our minds. For example:

1). When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is that in PNG we cook pigs, not cows and when I've asked my wantoks that we should kill all our pigs and bring in cows intead, they say I'm stupid. Should I smite them?

2). I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3). I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual cleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24) and of course this is also a PNG tradition. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

4). Leviticus 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Sepiks, but not to Highlanders. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Highlanders?

5). I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? Should we make proclamation throughout PNG that anyone working on the Sabbath will be killed in the name of peaceful Christianity?

6). A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is a abomination of Leviticus 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Should we start leaving our shellfish on the beaches and waters as pretty decoration and cease eating them?

7). Leviticus 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses and a lot of the papas in my village they also need glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? I'm always told by my fellow PNGBC students that I must follow the Bible literally.

8). Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Leviticus 19:27. Because it is forbidden, I need to know: How should they die?

9). I know from Leviticus 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, so does this mean that all Christians in PNG should stay away from pigs, or should everyone in the community work together, each one armed with a fork, when putting the pig into the mumu then when we bring it out again? How do we move the pig once it is dead without touching the skin?

10). My uncle has a copra plot which has cocoa underneath. He clearly violates Leviticus 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing a dress made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend-we read this on the label). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole village together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with all the people in PNG who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14).

I suspect you have studied these things much more extensively than I have. Please I beg you to explain these aspects of the Books of Leviticus and Exodus to all those who frequent this Faith forum.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging!

Your devoted fellow disciple
Mangi Levi
PNGBC
Quote
Share

Ralph Hamilton
Ralph Hamilton

July 4th, 2007, 1:38 am #9

My dear Levite,
I have been bending my mind to one of your questions.

Why on Earth would you want to own an Highlander? Isn't your life difficult enough ALREADY? Or do you belive in self-flagellation, as atonement for your sins.

Hehe......Ralph.

Quote
Share

Anonymous
Anonymous

July 4th, 2007, 5:51 pm #10

Once again fundamentalist Christians demonstrate that their faith is mostly due to incredible ignorance.

Are animals being sinful towards God or did God bless this following gay behaviours:


Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate
James Owen in London
for National Geographic News
July 23, 2004

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.

Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn't risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day "the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing—sex between a male and female.

But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.

Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior—entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

Well, perhaps, in a roundabout way, they are seeking males, suggests primatologist Amy Parish.

She argues that female macaques may enhance their social position through homosexual intimacy which in turn influences breeding success. Parish says, "Taking something that's nonreproductive, like mounting another female—if it leads to control of a resource or acquisition of a resource or a good alliance partner, that could directly impact your reproductive success."
Sexual Gratification

On the other hand, they could just be enjoying themselves, suggests Paul Vasey, animal behavior professor at the University of Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada. "They're engaging in the behavior because it's gratifying sexually or it's sexually pleasurable," he says. "They just like it. It doesn't have any sort of adaptive payoff."

Matthew Grober, biology professor at Georgia State University, agrees, saying, "If [sex] wasn't fun, we wouldn't have any kids around. So I think that maybe Japanese macaques have taken the fun aspect of sex and really run with it."
The bonobo, an African ape closely related to humans, has an even bigger sexual appetite. Studies suggest 75 percent of bonobo sex is nonreproductive and that nearly all bonobos are bisexual. Frans de Waal, author of Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape, calls the species a "make love, not war" primate. He believes bonobos use sex to resolve conflicts between individuals.

Other animals appear to go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. For instance, male dolphin calves often form temporary sexual partnerships, which scientists believe help to establish lifelong bonds. Such sexual behavior has been documented only relatively recently. Zoologists have been accused of skirting round the subject for fear of stepping into a political minefield.

"There was a lot of hiding of what was going on, I think, because people were maybe afraid that they would get into trouble by talking about it," notes de Waal. Whether it's a good idea or not, it's hard not make comparisons between humans and other animals, especially primates. The fact that homosexuality does, after all, exist in the natural world is bound to be used against people who insist such behavior is unnatural.

In the U.S., in particular, the moral debate over this issue rages on. Many on the religious right regard homosexuality as a sin. And only this month, President Bush vowed to continue his bid to ban gay marriages after the Senate blocked the proposal.

Already, cases of animal homosexuality have been cited in successful court cases brought against states like Texas, where gay sex was, until recently, illegal.

Yet scientists say we should be wary of referring to animals when considering what's acceptable in human society. For instance, infanticide, as practiced by lions and many other animals, isn't something people, gay or straight, generally approve of in humans.


Human Homosexuality

So how far can we go in using animals to help us understand human homosexuality? Robin Dunbar is a professor of evolutionary psychology at the University of Liverpool, England. "The bottom line is that anything that happens in other primates, and particularly other apes, is likely to have strong evolutionary continuity with what happens in humans," he said.
Dunbar says the bonobo's use of homosexual activity for social bonding is a possible example, adding, "One of the main arguments for human homosexual behavior is that it helps bond male groups together, particularly where a group of individuals are dependent on each other, as they might be in hunting or warfare."

For instance, the Spartans, in ancient Greece, encouraged homosexuality among their elite troops. "They had the not unreasonable belief that individuals would stick by and make all efforts to rescue other individuals if they had a lover relationship," Dunbar added.

Another suggestion is that homosexuality is a developmental phase people go through. He said, "This is similar to the argument of play in young animals to get their brain and muscles to work effectively and together. Off the back of this, there's the possibility you can get individuals locked into this phase for the rest of their lives as a result of the social environment they grow up in."

But he adds that homosexuality doesn't necessarily have to have a function. It could be a spin-off or by-product of something else and in itself carries no evolutionary weight."

He cites sexual gratification, which encourages procreation, as an example. "An organism is designed to maximize its motivational systems," he adds.
In other words, if the urge to have sex is strong enough it may spill over into nonreproductive sex, as suggested by the actions of the bonobos and macaques. However, as Dunbar admits, there's a long way to go before the causes of homosexuality in humans are fully understood.

He said, "Nobody's really investigated this issue thoroughly, because it's so politically sensitive. It's fair to say all possibilities are still open."
I guess gay animals can have normal sex too if politely asked otherwise how did this gay behaviour survive after the flood?
Quote
Share