Update....

Update....

Joined: February 29th, 2012, 4:29 pm

March 14th, 2012, 3:22 pm #1

My beta was 0. Nothing even tried to implant. My RE suggested that we do a fresh cycle before the frozen since I am not getting any younger. I actually disagreed with him and thought the frozen would be our best bet so we didn't have to spend the money BUT once I received my embryo report today, I changed my mind. Out of 11 eggs retrieved, 7 made it to blast but they were all awful day 3 and not even sure how they made it to blast. The two they transferred were a 12 cell on day 3 (I even know better than to put any faith in that one) and a 7 cell grade 2 from day 3. All the other blasts were grade 3. We do have a frozen blast that was a 8 cell from day 3 that is in early blast and I think could be a potential. Gosh, how do so many eggs make it to blast but then are so awful? I don't understand why they just didn't stop growing. Anyway, my husband and I decided we would give it one last hurrah and then live with whatever we get from these eggs instead of doing a donor. I appreciate all the advice that you guys have given me here the last month. If you think I am doing the wrong thing, please share your thoughts. This is a huge expense for us but we really want a biological baby. Uggg.... tears are coming down as I write this...
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Kim
Kim

March 14th, 2012, 3:28 pm #2

I know others said differently and do the FET and do agree, but fresh is a little better if you can get your lining thick enough!
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PhoebeMass
PhoebeMass

March 14th, 2012, 3:44 pm #3

My beta was 0. Nothing even tried to implant. My RE suggested that we do a fresh cycle before the frozen since I am not getting any younger. I actually disagreed with him and thought the frozen would be our best bet so we didn't have to spend the money BUT once I received my embryo report today, I changed my mind. Out of 11 eggs retrieved, 7 made it to blast but they were all awful day 3 and not even sure how they made it to blast. The two they transferred were a 12 cell on day 3 (I even know better than to put any faith in that one) and a 7 cell grade 2 from day 3. All the other blasts were grade 3. We do have a frozen blast that was a 8 cell from day 3 that is in early blast and I think could be a potential. Gosh, how do so many eggs make it to blast but then are so awful? I don't understand why they just didn't stop growing. Anyway, my husband and I decided we would give it one last hurrah and then live with whatever we get from these eggs instead of doing a donor. I appreciate all the advice that you guys have given me here the last month. If you think I am doing the wrong thing, please share your thoughts. This is a huge expense for us but we really want a biological baby. Uggg.... tears are coming down as I write this...
Sorry for your news, bb. I was hoping things turned out for one of us.

You go with your heart, bb. You cannot make a wrong decision here. This is your and your DH's journey and yours alone. Do what is right for you. We don't have the money to be doing these final 3 rounds. We put alot on the line to do these at this age. Knowing the odds were incredibly stacked against us. But...this is our journey and I need to do this to have peace. You do what you need to do.

Big hugs and I'll be cheering for you.
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Kim
Kim

March 14th, 2012, 4:34 pm #4

If you decide on a fresh round - have you thought of doing a day 2 transfer?
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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

March 14th, 2012, 4:37 pm #5

My beta was 0. Nothing even tried to implant. My RE suggested that we do a fresh cycle before the frozen since I am not getting any younger. I actually disagreed with him and thought the frozen would be our best bet so we didn't have to spend the money BUT once I received my embryo report today, I changed my mind. Out of 11 eggs retrieved, 7 made it to blast but they were all awful day 3 and not even sure how they made it to blast. The two they transferred were a 12 cell on day 3 (I even know better than to put any faith in that one) and a 7 cell grade 2 from day 3. All the other blasts were grade 3. We do have a frozen blast that was a 8 cell from day 3 that is in early blast and I think could be a potential. Gosh, how do so many eggs make it to blast but then are so awful? I don't understand why they just didn't stop growing. Anyway, my husband and I decided we would give it one last hurrah and then live with whatever we get from these eggs instead of doing a donor. I appreciate all the advice that you guys have given me here the last month. If you think I am doing the wrong thing, please share your thoughts. This is a huge expense for us but we really want a biological baby. Uggg.... tears are coming down as I write this...
can you try to lower the dose a little bit? Make it a medium stim if possible?

If I remember correctly, you did 750IU daily, and that is ultra high stim, and many researches have shown that high dose meds could very well be damaging the egg chromosomes. You obviously have innately great egg quality or else you couldn't have ended up that many blasts. So your goal now is to get as many normal eggs as possible. I am also a bit surprised because SIRM-LV told me they would only go as high as 600 as of Jan 2011, because they think the marginal benefit of higher than 600 is negligible or even harmful - exact words of Dr. Fisch.

Another thing that my RE mentioned (be aware that he is a low stim FET guy so he is biased)is, during very high stim situation, the uterus is really not in its best state for reception, even if the lining seems fine, your hormone system is a mess. I know that Dr. Schoolcraft at CCRM concurs with this, because everyone I know who went there in the last 2 years was pushed to do FET in a mildly medicated transfer cycle where no stim drug is used, he actually explained his rationale that he believed a FET cycle enhances success rate.
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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

March 14th, 2012, 4:38 pm #6

That was MIR, don't know how it came out to be anon
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Kim
Kim

March 14th, 2012, 4:42 pm #7

can you try to lower the dose a little bit? Make it a medium stim if possible?

If I remember correctly, you did 750IU daily, and that is ultra high stim, and many researches have shown that high dose meds could very well be damaging the egg chromosomes. You obviously have innately great egg quality or else you couldn't have ended up that many blasts. So your goal now is to get as many normal eggs as possible. I am also a bit surprised because SIRM-LV told me they would only go as high as 600 as of Jan 2011, because they think the marginal benefit of higher than 600 is negligible or even harmful - exact words of Dr. Fisch.

Another thing that my RE mentioned (be aware that he is a low stim FET guy so he is biased)is, during very high stim situation, the uterus is really not in its best state for reception, even if the lining seems fine, your hormone system is a mess. I know that Dr. Schoolcraft at CCRM concurs with this, because everyone I know who went there in the last 2 years was pushed to do FET in a mildly medicated transfer cycle where no stim drug is used, he actually explained his rationale that he believed a FET cycle enhances success rate.
The problem is two-fold. If you decide fresh, the lining may not be great. If you freeze, there is loss of quality of the embryos. So which is better assuming the embryos are so-so quality?
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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

March 14th, 2012, 4:51 pm #8

With great labs, you don't worry about the 1% thawing loss as compared to traditional 40% thawing loss. Once they make blasts, there is really no loss of quality other than thawing loss.

Also, the higher the stim dose, the more likely your endocrine system is heavily disrupted. So I'd say in a high stim situation, FET is more desirable. If you are medium or low stim, fresh cycle may be better.
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Joined: August 6th, 2011, 6:43 am

March 14th, 2012, 5:09 pm #9

My beta was 0. Nothing even tried to implant. My RE suggested that we do a fresh cycle before the frozen since I am not getting any younger. I actually disagreed with him and thought the frozen would be our best bet so we didn't have to spend the money BUT once I received my embryo report today, I changed my mind. Out of 11 eggs retrieved, 7 made it to blast but they were all awful day 3 and not even sure how they made it to blast. The two they transferred were a 12 cell on day 3 (I even know better than to put any faith in that one) and a 7 cell grade 2 from day 3. All the other blasts were grade 3. We do have a frozen blast that was a 8 cell from day 3 that is in early blast and I think could be a potential. Gosh, how do so many eggs make it to blast but then are so awful? I don't understand why they just didn't stop growing. Anyway, my husband and I decided we would give it one last hurrah and then live with whatever we get from these eggs instead of doing a donor. I appreciate all the advice that you guys have given me here the last month. If you think I am doing the wrong thing, please share your thoughts. This is a huge expense for us but we really want a biological baby. Uggg.... tears are coming down as I write this...
You did retrieve a lot of eggs so I am hopeful you will receive a lot on this next cycle too. I haven't given up on your little frozen embryos. Even though they were not graded all that great they did make it to blast My clinic told me they have seen some beautiful babies come from some not so great looking embryos.

If you are up for spending the money again then doing another fresh cycle might be a good idea. Then go from there. I would just hope if you want a baby no matter what that you will still be able to have DE as a backup option. But if you really want to try one more time with your OE, which it sure sounds like you do, then you need to finish that path first.

I don't have any great advice as to which path you should choose. We paid for two OE IVF cycles before moving on to DE so I know how expensive it is. But I don't regret trying. And only you and your DH can decide what the dollar amount is you are willing to spend.

Wishing you luck on this next cycle!
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bbtocudl
bbtocudl

March 14th, 2012, 5:24 pm #10

can you try to lower the dose a little bit? Make it a medium stim if possible?

If I remember correctly, you did 750IU daily, and that is ultra high stim, and many researches have shown that high dose meds could very well be damaging the egg chromosomes. You obviously have innately great egg quality or else you couldn't have ended up that many blasts. So your goal now is to get as many normal eggs as possible. I am also a bit surprised because SIRM-LV told me they would only go as high as 600 as of Jan 2011, because they think the marginal benefit of higher than 600 is negligible or even harmful - exact words of Dr. Fisch.

Another thing that my RE mentioned (be aware that he is a low stim FET guy so he is biased)is, during very high stim situation, the uterus is really not in its best state for reception, even if the lining seems fine, your hormone system is a mess. I know that Dr. Schoolcraft at CCRM concurs with this, because everyone I know who went there in the last 2 years was pushed to do FET in a mildly medicated transfer cycle where no stim drug is used, he actually explained his rationale that he believed a FET cycle enhances success rate.
I think I would prefer to go medium stims if we do this. You are correct, I was on the 750 a day protocol and even two weeks later I am still feeling burnt out from the hormones. Never had that happen before on a lower protocol. With everything that I have read on this board, I am really starting to believe high stims doesn't really improve things. Even if it did get me a few more eggs but they are damaged due to the stims, then it doesn't matter anyway. I am going to investigate this with my RE. I am at SIRM NJ so I am hoping their lab is as good as the SIRM NJ.
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