TenaciousB, where did you get the normal ratio for blasts?

TenaciousB, where did you get the normal ratio for blasts?

Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

March 25th, 2012, 11:09 pm #1

Is there a difference between day 5 and day 6 blasts? I am curious because I am trying to plan how many blasts I should bunch together for CGH. I'd like to batch a number that is likely to yield at least one normal for implantation.

Thanks a lot for your data. I think you have an excellent stim response and fertility profile for your age, I hope you are going to find success soon. That will be very inspiring for people like me.
Quote
Like
Share

TenaciousB
TenaciousB

March 26th, 2012, 3:06 pm #2

Hi MIR,
Thank you for your kind words! I will keep the board posted as I move along w/Tx. Im on hold for a month because of cysts left over from my last cycle. I aim to cycle again in late April/early May.

I wish there were a chart I could refer you to, but no such luck. Blast/normal rates vary by lab, clinic and by individual response to stimsetc. Not sure where youre cycling but they may be able to give you their clinic live birth rate per blast for your age range. di_nyc was recently able to gather that info from Dr. T on our clinic, SIRM (scroll down for details).

I apologize for opening a can of worms w/ the numbers I posted previously. They were not from established charts, but rather theyre specifically MY own composite experiential stats from MY prior 3 banking cycle results. I should have put a disclaimer on my statement, so as not to mislead anybody. Hence, when I said, This is how I think of my own chances, blah, blah, I really meant MY OWN chances, not to be extrapolated to others. ----Me with my big mouth! Anyway, here are my actual stats from those 3 cycles: Approx 20 mature eggs retrieved; 5 blasts; 2 CGH normals

With that said, the only solid universally accepted statistic I know of for you to use as a guideline for banking is the rate of egg aneuploidy by age (easy to find online). So if you figure that x% of eggs are normal at your age, then you aim to retrieve enough mature eggs overall to theoretically attain the number of normals you want.

FYI: Dr. T told di_nyc recently that SIRM has a 25% live birth rate per untested blast for her age. Were assuming this rate must have lots of qualifying caveats (assuming no implantation disfunctionetc). You can search for additional details in a string way down the board (search for blast statistics & my protocol, di's post of 3/25).
Quote
Share

Joined: September 16th, 2011, 4:55 am

March 26th, 2012, 4:07 pm #3

http://www.network54.com/Forum/53068/me ... y+protocol

This was just anecdotal from Dr. T, because I am also trying to figure out how many more banking cycles it makes sense to do before I start trying to transfer.
Quote
Like
Share

bbtocudl
bbtocudl

March 26th, 2012, 4:39 pm #4

My husband and I opted out of CGH due to the cost and we assumed we would transfer whatever we had and would find out that way if anything was normal. As luck has it,we had some to freeze. I am down to just a couple of days to decide if I want to do a FET or one more fresh. The frozens that we have are SIRM GES 95 and 85. (We transferred a 65 and a 30.) I was just curious if you could tell me what your CGH normals were in terms of GES scores (if you know.) I know every embryo is different but I am curious if they were 100 or if 85's do actually make babies. Thanks in advance! PS. I think we are leaning towards doing the FET.
Quote
Share

TenaciousB
TenaciousB

March 26th, 2012, 4:46 pm #5

I haven't the slightest idea what my GES numbers were. You frozen embies look very promising, though. Hope one or both of them will give you a BFP!!!!!
Quote
Share

bbtocudl
bbtocudl

March 26th, 2012, 5:35 pm #6

I imagine that if you are doing CGH, they don't really focus on the GES scores. Thanks for the encouragement though! I really hope that there is at least one normal. Good luck to you as well! Sounds like things are going really good for you! Fingers crossed!
Quote
Share

Jamie
Jamie

March 26th, 2012, 6:43 pm #7

Hi MIR,
Thank you for your kind words! I will keep the board posted as I move along w/Tx. Im on hold for a month because of cysts left over from my last cycle. I aim to cycle again in late April/early May.

I wish there were a chart I could refer you to, but no such luck. Blast/normal rates vary by lab, clinic and by individual response to stimsetc. Not sure where youre cycling but they may be able to give you their clinic live birth rate per blast for your age range. di_nyc was recently able to gather that info from Dr. T on our clinic, SIRM (scroll down for details).

I apologize for opening a can of worms w/ the numbers I posted previously. They were not from established charts, but rather theyre specifically MY own composite experiential stats from MY prior 3 banking cycle results. I should have put a disclaimer on my statement, so as not to mislead anybody. Hence, when I said, This is how I think of my own chances, blah, blah, I really meant MY OWN chances, not to be extrapolated to others. ----Me with my big mouth! Anyway, here are my actual stats from those 3 cycles: Approx 20 mature eggs retrieved; 5 blasts; 2 CGH normals

With that said, the only solid universally accepted statistic I know of for you to use as a guideline for banking is the rate of egg aneuploidy by age (easy to find online). So if you figure that x% of eggs are normal at your age, then you aim to retrieve enough mature eggs overall to theoretically attain the number of normals you want.

FYI: Dr. T told di_nyc recently that SIRM has a 25% live birth rate per untested blast for her age. Were assuming this rate must have lots of qualifying caveats (assuming no implantation disfunctionetc). You can search for additional details in a string way down the board (search for blast statistics & my protocol, di's post of 3/25).
Thanks Tenacious!

As I recall you are 43--your normal blast to egg ratio kind of bears out the 1/10 normal eggs out of those produced in the mid-40s.

Two normal blasts is fantastic! Will you transfer them together? If so, prepare for twins!
Quote
Share

TenaciousB
TenaciousB

March 26th, 2012, 7:54 pm #8

Jamie,

That set of banking cycles was actually last Fall. Unfortunately, I got a BFN with those CGH normals. Afterward, Dr. T said he was surprised it didn't work, but he feels I will eventually get pregnant if I keep trying. He quoted approx approx 40% chance of implantation for each CGH normal embie for ladies my age. I obviously fell on the bad side of those stats last round.

My dissapointing result also drove Dr. T toward further testing for implantation issues. Testing did reveal an issue (glandular arrested development), which we'll have to treat before my next transfer (w/3 months of lupron depot). Oy!

Meanwhile, I'm currently banking again and have one more cycle left to go out of my 3 cycle package. Here are the stats so far for my most recent 2 stim cycles: 17 mature eggs retrieved; 5 blasts frozen; CGH status TBD after upcoming (3rd) stim cycle. I've improved my egg quality by adding saizen (HGH) to my protcol last month, so I'm really eager to see my new CGH results!
Quote
Share

Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

March 26th, 2012, 10:03 pm #9

Hi MIR,
Thank you for your kind words! I will keep the board posted as I move along w/Tx. Im on hold for a month because of cysts left over from my last cycle. I aim to cycle again in late April/early May.

I wish there were a chart I could refer you to, but no such luck. Blast/normal rates vary by lab, clinic and by individual response to stimsetc. Not sure where youre cycling but they may be able to give you their clinic live birth rate per blast for your age range. di_nyc was recently able to gather that info from Dr. T on our clinic, SIRM (scroll down for details).

I apologize for opening a can of worms w/ the numbers I posted previously. They were not from established charts, but rather theyre specifically MY own composite experiential stats from MY prior 3 banking cycle results. I should have put a disclaimer on my statement, so as not to mislead anybody. Hence, when I said, This is how I think of my own chances, blah, blah, I really meant MY OWN chances, not to be extrapolated to others. ----Me with my big mouth! Anyway, here are my actual stats from those 3 cycles: Approx 20 mature eggs retrieved; 5 blasts; 2 CGH normals

With that said, the only solid universally accepted statistic I know of for you to use as a guideline for banking is the rate of egg aneuploidy by age (easy to find online). So if you figure that x% of eggs are normal at your age, then you aim to retrieve enough mature eggs overall to theoretically attain the number of normals you want.

FYI: Dr. T told di_nyc recently that SIRM has a 25% live birth rate per untested blast for her age. Were assuming this rate must have lots of qualifying caveats (assuming no implantation disfunctionetc). You can search for additional details in a string way down the board (search for blast statistics & my protocol, di's post of 3/25).
I think you have just provided some very invaluable reference data for me. I have been struggling with the number of blasts that I should shoot for before transfer. My clinic unfortunately doesn't have CGH yet, it will start to offer in the next few months, so there is no data on the % of blasts that are normal. Instead, my clinic just chooses to transfer whenever the patient feels ready. SIRM data, and your experience is certainly useful reference data for me.

So it looks like that if the embryo can make it to the blast stage, then the abnormalty ratio is quite a bit lower, because those severely abnormal embryos cannot make it to blast anyway?
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

March 26th, 2012, 10:12 pm #10

Jamie,

That set of banking cycles was actually last Fall. Unfortunately, I got a BFN with those CGH normals. Afterward, Dr. T said he was surprised it didn't work, but he feels I will eventually get pregnant if I keep trying. He quoted approx approx 40% chance of implantation for each CGH normal embie for ladies my age. I obviously fell on the bad side of those stats last round.

My dissapointing result also drove Dr. T toward further testing for implantation issues. Testing did reveal an issue (glandular arrested development), which we'll have to treat before my next transfer (w/3 months of lupron depot). Oy!

Meanwhile, I'm currently banking again and have one more cycle left to go out of my 3 cycle package. Here are the stats so far for my most recent 2 stim cycles: 17 mature eggs retrieved; 5 blasts frozen; CGH status TBD after upcoming (3rd) stim cycle. I've improved my egg quality by adding saizen (HGH) to my protcol last month, so I'm really eager to see my new CGH results!
I am really glad that you looked into the implantation issues.

I interacted with quite a few on DE board that have used surrogates. I was told by more than one person that so many of them on DE board thought it was their egg quality problem when they were trying with OE with repeated failures. Then they went on to DE only to find the same result. It was not after years of heartache and wasted money did they start to find out their eggs were fine, but their uterus WAS the problem.

Since you are doing CGH, you have a very good handle of your egg quality (2 normal blasts are excellent quality). Clearly there was an implantation issue. You are very lucky to have caught this in time. Some of those on DE board didn't realize that their OE was fine until it was too late.
Quote
Like
Share


Confirmation of reply: