My E2 is undetectable. Can you please read?

Joined: 5:04 PM - Jan 27, 2015

7:10 PM - Mar 19, 2018 #1

Hello guys! Can you please help? In February both FSH and LH were 30 so my doctor put me on BCP to lower them especially LH. FSH came down pretty fast but LH was stubborn so I ended up taking bcp for 3+ week( 25 days). By day 35 I was oversuppressed with FSH and LH being 1 and E2 undetectable.

We stopped the bcp to get a period. On CD2 LH jumped already to 17 and E2 remained undetectable. So the doctor asked me to take 1/2 bcp every other day to lower LH. Today CD7 FSH and LH are 20 and e2 still undetectable! Unfortunately my e2 got stuck to undetectable.

The doctor believes that we should try to lower LH once again so I was asked to start one bcp daily for one week.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a similar experience? I read somewhere that older ovaries may never recover from bcp oversuppression so I am worried.

What do you guys think?
Thank you!
Joy
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Barb A.
Barb A.

11:02 PM - Mar 20, 2018 #2

Hi Joy-
I’m in same boat. Haven’t gotten estrogen to rise in months. Will be stopping Check’s protocol after this cycle. I did have some success with DHEA upping my estrogen, but together with ethinyl estradiol it was too much and all follicles fizzled. I will be trying just DHEA and supplements after this cycle. I wish I had good answers for you but I haven’t found any yet.
Barb
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Sugaboogie
Sugaboogie

6:31 AM - Mar 21, 2018 #3

Hello guys! Can you please help? In February both FSH and LH were 30 so my doctor put me on BCP to lower them especially LH. FSH came down pretty fast but LH was stubborn so I ended up taking bcp for 3+ week( 25 days). By day 35 I was oversuppressed with FSH and LH being 1 and E2 undetectable.

We stopped the bcp to get a period. On CD2 LH jumped already to 17 and E2 remained undetectable. So the doctor asked me to take 1/2 bcp every other day to lower LH. Today CD7 FSH and LH are 20 and e2 still undetectable! Unfortunately my e2 got stuck to undetectable.

The doctor believes that we should try to lower LH once again so I was asked to start one bcp daily for one week.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a similar experience? I read somewhere that older ovaries may never recover from bcp oversuppression so I am worried.

What do you guys think?
Thank you!
Joy
Hi Joy39,

Sorry this happened to you. I was suppressed twice, once at 37 years old with BCPs for 21 days, and a second time at 38 years old on estrace during the luteal phase. The BCPs suppressed me for about 3 months and the estrace for about 2-3 weeks. I'm reluctant to do any estrogen priming now. I did read the the estrogen patches are much better for priming but I never tried them myself. I think you'll be able to bounce back from the oversuppression. I was worried I wouldn't but I did after a while.
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Joined: 6:19 PM - Jun 10, 2014

10:37 AM - Mar 21, 2018 #4

Hello guys! Can you please help? In February both FSH and LH were 30 so my doctor put me on BCP to lower them especially LH. FSH came down pretty fast but LH was stubborn so I ended up taking bcp for 3+ week( 25 days). By day 35 I was oversuppressed with FSH and LH being 1 and E2 undetectable.

We stopped the bcp to get a period. On CD2 LH jumped already to 17 and E2 remained undetectable. So the doctor asked me to take 1/2 bcp every other day to lower LH. Today CD7 FSH and LH are 20 and e2 still undetectable! Unfortunately my e2 got stuck to undetectable.

The doctor believes that we should try to lower LH once again so I was asked to start one bcp daily for one week.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a similar experience? I read somewhere that older ovaries may never recover from bcp oversuppression so I am worried.

What do you guys think?
Thank you!
Joy
Hi Joy - so this is only CD7 after the cycle with oversuppression? In my opinion, you should leave the FSH to grow up to 35 or so, not take BCP to bring it again below 20. At least this is my experience I gained from NH.

I think I mentioned this before - I cannot see why BCP and estradiol priming would be any different regarding oversuppression. Lots of luck whatever the decision.
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Joined: 5:04 PM - Jan 27, 2015

4:56 PM - Mar 21, 2018 #5

Hello guys! Can you please help? In February both FSH and LH were 30 so my doctor put me on BCP to lower them especially LH. FSH came down pretty fast but LH was stubborn so I ended up taking bcp for 3+ week( 25 days). By day 35 I was oversuppressed with FSH and LH being 1 and E2 undetectable.

We stopped the bcp to get a period. On CD2 LH jumped already to 17 and E2 remained undetectable. So the doctor asked me to take 1/2 bcp every other day to lower LH. Today CD7 FSH and LH are 20 and e2 still undetectable! Unfortunately my e2 got stuck to undetectable.

The doctor believes that we should try to lower LH once again so I was asked to start one bcp daily for one week.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a similar experience? I read somewhere that older ovaries may never recover from bcp oversuppression so I am worried.

What do you guys think?
Thank you!
Joy
Thank you guys!

Barb-i am sorry your estrogen got stuck to undetectable. I can feel your frustration. This is so unfair what we are going through. Maybe taking a break right now from ethinyl estradiol is not a bad thing. I wish things improve for you soon.

Sugaboobie-thanks so much. I was at work unable to function when i saw your message and i felt hope. So your ovaries recovered after 3 months. That is good to know. Right now I am feeling that they have called it quits. I have hot flashes and all the bones in my body ache. Seriously I find it hard to walk. Hopefully I will see estrogen going back up again soon. Thank you so much.


Alma-hello! This has never happened to me. Can I please ask you-a)why would NH allow FSH to go up to 35 in a case like mine? Won't LH go back up too? Also will a follicle grow if LH and FSH go back at 35?
b) Alma did you ever become oversuppressed from BCP?( i mean real badly-fsh,LH, E2 all at zero!) and how long did it take your ovaries to recover?
Some other lady told me that her doctor said that older ovaries may never recover from BCP suppression. Hoping to hear from you-your experiences with BCP help me a lot.


All the best to all of you and thank you for getting back to me! Thank you so much guys.
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Joined: 6:19 PM - Jun 10, 2014

12:05 PM - Mar 22, 2018 #6

Dear Joy, I mention what I regularly noticed, I don't know the reasoning. My assumption is that an elevated FSH (over 40) might trigger the production of more antrals, even though in theory it shouldn't. I just noticed that NH would let FSH to grow in the thirties. The LH would increase as well, but in my case the FSH was always higher than the LH. Once a follicle would start growing, both FSH and LH would go down - it is true that in some cases they didn't - but the question is, was this because the body could not produce a good follicle, or because at the very beginning the LH was high?

It is also possible that the body cannot produce any follicle despite the increased FSH, E2 would remain low, and then I would be put on BCP again. What I noticed a few times was that the number of antrals was growing on the high FSH, then I would take BCP again, and then one of those small follicles would start growing ok and the FSH would go down.

The only time when I was badly suppressed was before starting with NH - I had FSH, LH, E2 all zero after Reclipsen BCP. I recovered in a couple of weeks and had a few good cycles after. I was almost 43 at the time. NH never allowed my hormones to go that low.

Hope this helps...
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Joined: 5:04 PM - Jan 27, 2015

3:04 PM - Mar 22, 2018 #7

Hi dear Alma! Thanks for getting back to me and thank you for your patience in answering my questions!

I just want to make sure i got this: Let's say you started a cycle with baseline FSH and LH around 20, NH would not give you bcp but allow these numbers to increase more eg in the 30'. If the follicle continued to grow then no bcp would be given and then just monitor and try to catch it. If the follicle refused to grow, then after a few days and thus later in the cycle, you would be put on bcp to help it grow.

Did i get this right? I thought that once the FSH and LH were high at baseline NH puts their patients on bcp immediately to get the fsh down and help the follicle grow. Did i get this wrong? Also Dr Zhang is one of the RE;s that believes that high LH( eg over 15) in the follicular phase damages the egg so he prefers to start bcp asap if the LH and FSH are high at baseline.

Did i get you right? Clearing this up will help me tremendously Alma..Maybe what I need is to let the fsh go high after all and all will be good again.

Also thank you for telling me your experience with Reclipsen. I hope my ovaries recover too. I am still on BCP even though my e2 was undetectable on Monday. And it is now 12 days it's still undetectable. I have been on bcp for like a month now. I am worried they will get stuck in this mode.

Thanks a million Alma!!!These are my first few experiences using bcp so i admit i am worried....

I hope everything is going great with you Alma!!!
xx
Joy

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Holly
Holly

10:33 PM - Mar 22, 2018 #8

Hello guys! Can you please help? In February both FSH and LH were 30 so my doctor put me on BCP to lower them especially LH. FSH came down pretty fast but LH was stubborn so I ended up taking bcp for 3+ week( 25 days). By day 35 I was oversuppressed with FSH and LH being 1 and E2 undetectable.

We stopped the bcp to get a period. On CD2 LH jumped already to 17 and E2 remained undetectable. So the doctor asked me to take 1/2 bcp every other day to lower LH. Today CD7 FSH and LH are 20 and e2 still undetectable! Unfortunately my e2 got stuck to undetectable.

The doctor believes that we should try to lower LH once again so I was asked to start one bcp daily for one week.

Any thoughts? Anyone have a similar experience? I read somewhere that older ovaries may never recover from bcp oversuppression so I am worried.

What do you guys think?
Thank you!
Joy
Sorry to hear your woes Joy. I've been there several times thru the last few years (mostly after I started transferring). Always had to go on BCPs to thwart cysts and keep my P4 down prior to cycle start. My ovaries aren't spring chickens anymore and even the lightest script of BCPs was completely shutting my system down (I mean hot flashes every 15 minutes for 4 weeks straight). So, I read up on natural hormones and although our cycles experience both E2 and P4 throughout the month they're more prevalent during certain times. Thus, a pill that contains both is somewhat counterproductive. New methodology on hormone replacement is actually addressing this very issue. There's some good reading out there to confirm this concept that E2 and P4 need to be administered at different times of the cycle in order to maintain healthy hormone balance.

That being said, I was able to fill my script of estradiol patches/dots (0.1mg) and used one patch every 3 days for a total of roughly 14-16 days. THEN, I switched over to PIO (progesterone in oil) shots. You'll have to get a script if you don't have one BUT THIS MADE ALL THE DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD. It's similar to natural P4 in our bodies and is absorbed better. It's a pain in the butt (literally) but the 1 ml/night really helped. I also took 1 prometrium (similar protocol to post transfer) before bed. I tried the Prometrium by itself the previous month along with ethinyl estradiol cream to no avail.

At cycle start (roughly 4-5 weeks after using this regime) everything was great! AFC was back to where it was 3 years ago (8) and my hormones were all in check except FSH. It was 30 (highest on cycle start ever) but that was improvement from what I'm sure was near 70-100 weeks before. I had two follies already at 10 so it didn't take anytime for my FSH to come down. It was a transfer cycle so didn't retrieve anything on this go around but I sure could of without E2 suppression.

HTH!

Holly



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Joined: 6:19 PM - Jun 10, 2014

7:55 PM - Mar 27, 2018 #9

Hi dear Alma! Thanks for getting back to me and thank you for your patience in answering my questions!

I just want to make sure i got this: Let's say you started a cycle with baseline FSH and LH around 20, NH would not give you bcp but allow these numbers to increase more eg in the 30'. If the follicle continued to grow then no bcp would be given and then just monitor and try to catch it. If the follicle refused to grow, then after a few days and thus later in the cycle, you would be put on bcp to help it grow.

Did i get this right? I thought that once the FSH and LH were high at baseline NH puts their patients on bcp immediately to get the fsh down and help the follicle grow. Did i get this wrong? Also Dr Zhang is one of the RE;s that believes that high LH( eg over 15) in the follicular phase damages the egg so he prefers to start bcp asap if the LH and FSH are high at baseline.

Did i get you right? Clearing this up will help me tremendously Alma..Maybe what I need is to let the fsh go high after all and all will be good again.

Also thank you for telling me your experience with Reclipsen. I hope my ovaries recover too. I am still on BCP even though my e2 was undetectable on Monday. And it is now 12 days it's still undetectable. I have been on bcp for like a month now. I am worried they will get stuck in this mode.

Thanks a million Alma!!!These are my first few experiences using bcp so i admit i am worried....

I hope everything is going great with you Alma!!!
xx
Joy
Dear Joy - you are correct, this has been my experience with NH: They would not give me BCP if FSH were in the twenties as baseline. I think they would put me on BCP only if the FSH ended up in the forties.

I don't know if they still do the same, or if this is correct, but this was my experience.
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Joined: 5:04 PM - Jan 27, 2015

5:18 PM - Mar 30, 2018 #10

Thanks a lot Alma! I guess what my doctor is trying to do is keep me on various doses of bcp both in the luteal and follicular phase so that fsh and especially lh don't get to go very high up. So far i have been on bcp for 40 days! Last Monday it was cd14, fsh 6, lh 10 and e2 5pg. He asked me to take half a pill now so that my ovaries get more stimulated and hopefully something starts to grow. I am worried if they will pull through.

a)May i please ask-when you fsh was in the 20s, 30s etc was your LH that sky high also?
b) did you try to get the eggs when LH was high throughout your follicular phase?( eg over 15) or did you let those follicles go?

Thank you Alma as always for helping me out!
xx
Joy
Last edited by joy39 on 5:52 PM - Mar 30, 2018, edited 1 time in total.
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