LH surge and no ovulation?

LH surge and no ovulation?

SydneyGal
SydneyGal

February 5th, 2009, 9:19 pm #1

Hello! I haven't been around much lately because I haven't been actively cycling and have been dealing with other issues.

I am trying to understand my cycle so I can get a handle on when AF is expected. This is so I can roughly plan out the timing of the start of another IVF cycle (cannot get pg without IVF, so haven't paid as much attention to my natural cycles like many of you do). I'm usually very regular but I had a very short cycle after my ordeal with the bowel obstruction, and it seems my cycle is still a bit messed up.

I had a good LH surge on CD11 (very early for me so I was suspicious) but then only 4 days later I had a day of red/brown bleeding! It was definitely more than spotting, but way, way short of a regular AF. The next day, on CD16 I decided to get some b/w through privatemdlabs to see if I had just ovulated or whether the bleeding was CD1.

The results: E2 155, and progesterone 1.0.

So with that progesterone level my first thought was obviously I didn't ovulate, I am still in the follicular phase. But I doubt it is the beginning of my cycle since the E2 was 155, and my usual is about 10, and the bleeding was much too light and short for a CD1.

My questions are:
1. Could I have a LH surge and NOT ovulate? That would explain the +OPK and subsequent low progesterone levels. If there was no egg released there would not be a corpus luteum to produce the progesterone, right?

2. Is it possible to have multiple LH surges in a cycle? Anyone had that happen? My surge happened so early this cycle for me, on CD11, when I typically surge around CD16-19. Just wondering if its possible get another surge around my usual time, especially since the first surge didn't do anything to my progesterone levels. I'll keep testing daily to see what happens.

In any case, I'm not terribly fussed about it all as we all have weird cycles now and then, I'm mainly just kind of curious.

SydneyGal
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Joined: October 3rd, 2006, 5:07 pm

February 5th, 2009, 9:41 pm #2

Good to see you around! I've been wondering how you're doing. Glad you're up and feeling better.

I think it's possible to have more than one LH surge per cycle, but in my experience one is usually more of a small surge - like a mini-spike - rather than a full-fledged surge. It's more common with women with PCOS-ish blood sugar issues, I think. Not sure if you've got those issues.

The P4 shows you didn't ovulate. Could it have been sort of an anov cycle? I also wonder about a cyst. The higher E2 and the bleeding could point to that. I think our bodies sometimes try to "ovulate" cysts to get them to go away, so it might be something like that. And from what I've heard, you can have bleeding with cysts.

Could you get an u/s to check for a cyst? That might be what's going on.

Arrrgh. It's so frustrating when cycles don't go as planned. I wish it were more straightforward and not so confusing.

Good to see you here!

Jean
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SydneyGal
SydneyGal

February 5th, 2009, 9:54 pm #3

Yeah my money's on an anovulatory cycle. No PCOS or blood sugar issues here. Thyroid is good too for that matter, TSH clocked in at 0.9. Could be a cyst as you say, although I've never had one of those before. Getting an u/s is a bit of an ordeal where I am, so I'll skip it. I guess with anovulatory cycles it's hard to predict how long the cycle will be unless you are monitored frequently.

Hey I sent you an email several days ago to your yahoo address, not sure if you saw it!
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Joined: October 3rd, 2006, 5:07 pm

February 5th, 2009, 9:56 pm #4

I've been avoiding my email. I'm soooooo behind on everything after being sick with the flu for the better part of six weeks. Email has dropped off the radar. I've been trying to keep up with message boards but putting email on the back burner. I just checked my email and got it, so I'll reply to you now.

Edited - Just replied to your email.


Hang in there,



Jean
Last edited by JeanTX on February 5th, 2009, 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 2nd, 2005, 3:49 pm

February 5th, 2009, 11:06 pm #5

Hello! I haven't been around much lately because I haven't been actively cycling and have been dealing with other issues.

I am trying to understand my cycle so I can get a handle on when AF is expected. This is so I can roughly plan out the timing of the start of another IVF cycle (cannot get pg without IVF, so haven't paid as much attention to my natural cycles like many of you do). I'm usually very regular but I had a very short cycle after my ordeal with the bowel obstruction, and it seems my cycle is still a bit messed up.

I had a good LH surge on CD11 (very early for me so I was suspicious) but then only 4 days later I had a day of red/brown bleeding! It was definitely more than spotting, but way, way short of a regular AF. The next day, on CD16 I decided to get some b/w through privatemdlabs to see if I had just ovulated or whether the bleeding was CD1.

The results: E2 155, and progesterone 1.0.

So with that progesterone level my first thought was obviously I didn't ovulate, I am still in the follicular phase. But I doubt it is the beginning of my cycle since the E2 was 155, and my usual is about 10, and the bleeding was much too light and short for a CD1.

My questions are:
1. Could I have a LH surge and NOT ovulate? That would explain the +OPK and subsequent low progesterone levels. If there was no egg released there would not be a corpus luteum to produce the progesterone, right?

2. Is it possible to have multiple LH surges in a cycle? Anyone had that happen? My surge happened so early this cycle for me, on CD11, when I typically surge around CD16-19. Just wondering if its possible get another surge around my usual time, especially since the first surge didn't do anything to my progesterone levels. I'll keep testing daily to see what happens.

In any case, I'm not terribly fussed about it all as we all have weird cycles now and then, I'm mainly just kind of curious.

SydneyGal
You can get a surge and not ovulate. You can have more than one surge in a cycle. After I had a cycle when I didn't ovulate but got a surge, I asked for an HCG shot to guarantee it.
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Joined: March 15th, 2008, 12:38 am

February 6th, 2009, 3:13 am #6

Hello! I haven't been around much lately because I haven't been actively cycling and have been dealing with other issues.

I am trying to understand my cycle so I can get a handle on when AF is expected. This is so I can roughly plan out the timing of the start of another IVF cycle (cannot get pg without IVF, so haven't paid as much attention to my natural cycles like many of you do). I'm usually very regular but I had a very short cycle after my ordeal with the bowel obstruction, and it seems my cycle is still a bit messed up.

I had a good LH surge on CD11 (very early for me so I was suspicious) but then only 4 days later I had a day of red/brown bleeding! It was definitely more than spotting, but way, way short of a regular AF. The next day, on CD16 I decided to get some b/w through privatemdlabs to see if I had just ovulated or whether the bleeding was CD1.

The results: E2 155, and progesterone 1.0.

So with that progesterone level my first thought was obviously I didn't ovulate, I am still in the follicular phase. But I doubt it is the beginning of my cycle since the E2 was 155, and my usual is about 10, and the bleeding was much too light and short for a CD1.

My questions are:
1. Could I have a LH surge and NOT ovulate? That would explain the +OPK and subsequent low progesterone levels. If there was no egg released there would not be a corpus luteum to produce the progesterone, right?

2. Is it possible to have multiple LH surges in a cycle? Anyone had that happen? My surge happened so early this cycle for me, on CD11, when I typically surge around CD16-19. Just wondering if its possible get another surge around my usual time, especially since the first surge didn't do anything to my progesterone levels. I'll keep testing daily to see what happens.

In any case, I'm not terribly fussed about it all as we all have weird cycles now and then, I'm mainly just kind of curious.

SydneyGal
there was a surge but there was no egg inside the follicle???

Therefore no egg to fertilize or implant...

Does this make any sense?

JeanTOR
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Dianne3
Dianne3

February 6th, 2009, 4:58 am #7

Is it possible to ovulate today -as an example and the surge to appear the day after tommorow?

Thanks
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SydneyGal
SydneyGal

February 6th, 2009, 6:31 am #8

You can get a surge and not ovulate. You can have more than one surge in a cycle. After I had a cycle when I didn't ovulate but got a surge, I asked for an HCG shot to guarantee it.
I guess we always seem to assume that ovulation will occur after a surge when talking about surges on the boards, that I have trouble imagining that it isn't always the case. Trying naturally is not an option for me but if it were, I would definitely be looking at using a HCG trigger from now on. BTW congrats Renata on your transfer, sounds perfect
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SydneyGal
SydneyGal

February 6th, 2009, 6:41 am #9

there was a surge but there was no egg inside the follicle???

Therefore no egg to fertilize or implant...

Does this make any sense?

JeanTOR
Perhaps the follicle was empty... in any case I probably have an anovulatory cycle. I find it interesting that one could surge and not ovulate, and as a result not have a luteal phase due to low progesterone. Do I now stay in the follicular phase the whole cycle? I'll keep doing the OPKs in case something weird like another surge happens. I guess its anything goes with the hormones in perimenopause!
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SydneyGal
SydneyGal

February 6th, 2009, 6:47 am #10

Is it possible to ovulate today -as an example and the surge to appear the day after tommorow?

Thanks
Usually ovulation occurs around 36 hours after the surge, give or take a few hours. Even with the urine levels being delayed from the blood levels of LH, I don't think it would show up that late on an OPK. The egg needs the surge to do its final maturation process before release.

If it is possible to have more than one surge, then I suppose you could have another surge after ovulating, but you would still have the LH surge before ovulation. Also sometimes the surge can last for several days, but again it would have started well before ovulation.
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