interesting finding

interesting finding

jkl
jkl

April 13th, 2012, 5:56 pm #1

found this in a paper I was reading about IVF and PGD

Basically, based on studies in animals, more chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid) embryos are found when doing IVF than in in the natural setting (suggesting IVF somehow causes embryos to become aneuploid). For ethical reasons they can't test in humans obviously but it certainly may explain why older women have better luck naturally

here is the discussion from the paper:

Not all morphologically normal IVF embryos are also chromosomally normal. Although day 3 embryo morphology has been recently shown to be a selection marker of euploidy among advancedmaternal age subjects, it had a poor predictive value for euploidy in younger women who may have other factors responsible for embryo dysmorphism (4). Indeed, a high rate of aneuploidy and mosaicism is revealed even when only top-quality IVF embryos are analyzed by FISH. For obvious ethical reasons, comparative studies on chromosome abnormalities in in vivoderived and in vitroproduced human embryos are not available. Studies on other mammalian species (mouse, cow, sheep), however, have demonstrated a higher rate of aneuploidy in IVF embryos compared with their in vivo counterparts (29). Collectively, these data indicate that human IVF embryos probably have a higher degree of aneuploidy compared with the naturally developed embryos which are not accessible for research
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Joined: December 20th, 2010, 7:38 pm

April 13th, 2012, 7:03 pm #2

If the meds, injectables vs Clomid, or what dose of injectables?

Do you have the link of the original paper? Thanks!
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Babydance
Babydance

April 13th, 2012, 9:23 pm #3

found this in a paper I was reading about IVF and PGD

Basically, based on studies in animals, more chromosomally abnormal (aneuploid) embryos are found when doing IVF than in in the natural setting (suggesting IVF somehow causes embryos to become aneuploid). For ethical reasons they can't test in humans obviously but it certainly may explain why older women have better luck naturally

here is the discussion from the paper:

Not all morphologically normal IVF embryos are also chromosomally normal. Although day 3 embryo morphology has been recently shown to be a selection marker of euploidy among advancedmaternal age subjects, it had a poor predictive value for euploidy in younger women who may have other factors responsible for embryo dysmorphism (4). Indeed, a high rate of aneuploidy and mosaicism is revealed even when only top-quality IVF embryos are analyzed by FISH. For obvious ethical reasons, comparative studies on chromosome abnormalities in in vivoderived and in vitroproduced human embryos are not available. Studies on other mammalian species (mouse, cow, sheep), however, have demonstrated a higher rate of aneuploidy in IVF embryos compared with their in vivo counterparts (29). Collectively, these data indicate that human IVF embryos probably have a higher degree of aneuploidy compared with the naturally developed embryos which are not accessible for research
Most difficult cases and success on this board are natural. Thanks for posting. IVF works WELL when you are young and have 20 eggs produced - likely one will come out normal. When you only get a few, not likely with IVf meds.
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anne
anne

April 13th, 2012, 9:56 pm #4

n/t
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sugar
sugar

April 14th, 2012, 12:10 am #5

Totally agree. nt
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Joined: December 15th, 2009, 8:50 pm

April 14th, 2012, 5:11 pm #6

If the meds, injectables vs Clomid, or what dose of injectables?

Do you have the link of the original paper? Thanks!
I will try to find the original paper, but I'm pretty sure they were superovlating the animals in both settings (using drugs). So it's almost certainly the culture conditions. As a researcher that has done cell culture, this is not surprising to me at all.

jkl
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Joined: December 15th, 2009, 8:50 pm

April 14th, 2012, 5:22 pm #7

Most difficult cases and success on this board are natural. Thanks for posting. IVF works WELL when you are young and have 20 eggs produced - likely one will come out normal. When you only get a few, not likely with IVf meds.
see my note above. Also, probably people's embryos are differentially susceptible to this so clearly some people can have success with IVF later. I had 1/4 normal embryos at 39.5 (and maybe more were normal but didn't implant). IVf can overcome a lot of other problems (for example I could only get pregnant after IVF or HSG, which I think means I have something wrong with my tubes but is undiagnosed. Just to emphasize that in some instances IVf may be your best shot. But if you have normal tubes etc. this data may suggest that low stim IUI is your best shot.

jkl
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