MOBY: Chap. 4 Don’t Ask Questions You Don’t Want to Hear...

Join us for the chapter by chapter discussions of Written In My Own Heart's Blood (MOBY), beginning in January 2016 and continuing through mid-2017.
Joined: July 10th, 2014, 11:01 pm

January 27th, 2016, 3:58 am #16

Yes, yes, Vala, the Roger incident, aggh, I think I had finally stopped thinking about that. The other thing that really bothers me is his using part of the gold for his own benefit and not returning the rest. Bad, bad, bad. But that's not in this book, so forget I mentioned it ;)
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Lisa SF
Clan Fraser
Joined: August 2nd, 2011, 11:43 pm

January 27th, 2016, 4:18 am #17

Wow, the parallels to the Roger incident -- I hadn't connected the two, but it's a great comparison! Oh, Jamie. I guess he is a mere mortal after all. :)
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audiobooklover
Clan Fraser
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 10:09 pm

January 27th, 2016, 4:29 am #18

I hadn't thought of the comparison with the Roger incident either. Great catch, Vala! :clap:
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repoman
Clan Fraser Veteran
Joined: February 16th, 2011, 9:47 am

January 27th, 2016, 10:16 am #19

SleepsInHeather wrote:Imagine if Jamie had not been to see Marsali first. No explanation of the circumstances beforehand, just John's confession. John would probably be dead. Even with that knowledge he might be dead, except for the timely arrival of the rebel soldiers. I think Jamie's departure was for him, not for John, although it probably saved John from further damage. That pause shifted his focus back to Claire, and she has some explaining to do.
:agree:

Great discussion!
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Joined: October 21st, 2014, 12:07 pm

January 27th, 2016, 7:35 pm #20

Great observations Vala, I hadn't thought of those. And thanks for the lively discussion - so fun!

One thing I was thinking of was that part of the reason Jamie reacted as badly as he did was the simple fact that John said they were Both F___ing him. From John's point of view it reminded him, or should, of the incident in the Scottish Prisoner. But, I think it should be clear that to this day, Jamie is still reacting as harshly as he is because of the torture he received from BJR - was that 30? 40 years earlier (I'd need to check dates to be sure)? No one has ever explained that to John on the other hand.
I think that this type of reaction that Jamie has to that old trauma rings very true to life. One of the things that I always admire in these books is what a great study of human character DG is to be able to bring these people to life so very realistically.
Da mi basia mille, deinde centum, dein mille altera, dein secunda centum, deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.

Donne-moi mille baisers, et puis cent, et puis mille autres, puis une seconde fois cent, puis encore mille autres, puis cent.
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NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

January 29th, 2016, 1:19 am #21

Naomi wrote: think it should be clear that to this day, Jamie is still reacting as harshly as he is because of the torture he received from BJR - was that 30? 40 years earlier (I'd need to check dates to be sure)? No one has ever explained that to John on the other hand.
Naomi, great point. :clap: Jamie is going back into the recesses of his psyche, and those words from John, in which he is telling Jamie that he was the phantom on that night of carnal knowing, once again resurrecting Jamie's most dreaded demon. This reversion to that ugly past had reared it's head in the Brotherhood of the Blade when John told Jamie that he could make him scream. Jamie was infuriated then and in this scene because it goes back to that horrid Randall.
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
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Joined: September 30th, 2016, 8:02 pm

June 21st, 2018, 4:17 pm #22

In this chapter we get John's POV being pummeled by Jamie, very similar to having Roger's POV during the same type of beating in Drums. I recently re-read Voyager and in that one, we have Jamie's POV as he is beating the crap out of Captain Leonard, when he thinks Claire is dead (from pox or drowning). All three of these are extremely descriptive, inside the heads of each man. Each time I am amazed by the depths of Jamie's rage. Are there any others you can think of? (I believe the scene after Claire's rape/capture is from Claire's POV, so more distanced.)
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Joined: January 31st, 2017, 11:53 pm

June 22nd, 2018, 3:32 pm #23

Great observations.  I love this discussion.  Naomi, you said: 
 "One of the things that I always admire in these books is what a great study of human character DG is to be able to bring these people to life so very realistically."  I couldn't agree more.  I felt both Lord John and Claire's despair when they thought Jamie was dead and I think it makes such perfect sense that they would find solace with each other.  And the fact that they both are making love to Jamie, (btw that's how I saw it.  Not as f...g) through each other is completely believable.  When you loose someone you love, you want to share as much as you can of that person with other people who loved them.  That's why there are wakes,funerals, and shiva.  Not everyone goes to the lengths, (or depths!) as Claire and Lord John, but what they did is understandable.
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