DUNNETT: WHAT LYMOND READ: INTRODUCTION TO THE TOPIC

NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

June 24th, 2017, 3:16 pm #1



Greetings everyone!
I'm finally able to get this forum up and running. I think it will be fun and interesting. Here are some guidelines and titles.

As you may know this thread was inspired by the article in The Whispering Gallery, 'That Private Labyrinth': The Books that made Dorothy Dunnett's Lymond', Whispering Gallery, 134 (March 2017), 20-27. Since some of you expressed interest in reading the classics that our character read, I thought it might be interesting to read some of the books on his bookshelves. Ms. Serjeantson outlines what Philippa saw on those shelves.

The approach: I thought it might be a good idea to read six books in the year and then update with a new list. Let's see how the first list goes. Many of us have work and/or are busy reading other material, or re-reading our beloved author's Niccolò series, or King Hereafter, among others. I am involved in most of the other threads and am a full time teacher, with other duties at work, so time is limited.

I propose that we read a book/play/poems and the discussion begins when people are ready to discuss--see below for the suggested start of the discussion. (I am open to suggestions! Please pm me. This is your forum, for you!)
I will be happy to introduce the author and publication date...and then we begin. If anyone wants to do summaries, or an intro to a favorite, let me know. It's all good!

Each poster may write, reflect, ask questions about the work itself and then make a Lymond connection. Please note: anything connecting to Lymond could be a potential spoiler. To caution readers who may not have read the event or scene, I urge the author of the post to place spoilers in this color, or some similar color. So if I want to write a spoiler about CM (Checkmate) I will write:
In CM, Chapter...Since new readers haven't read CM yet, they will hopefully be able to skip over the spoiler. Please use the initials: GoK, QP, DK, PiF, RC, CM when connecting an idea to any of the books.

Thoughts? I welcome your suggestions.
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
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NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

June 24th, 2017, 3:47 pm #2

The first six. Discussion to begin first Wednesday of the second month:

July/August: The Education of a Christian Prince -- Erasmus, August 2
September/October: Confessions-- Saint Augustine October 4 ( :<3: the Transitus of St. Francis of Assisi)
November/ December: Gargantua and Pentagruel Rabelais (Penguin Classics) December 6th, (St. Nicholas!)
January/February: The Prince--Machiavelli February 3rd
March/April: The Poetics--Aristotle April 4th
May/June: The Republic and the Laws Cicero June 5th

Threads will remain open, once discussion has begun, so pop in to comment. Happy reading.
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
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LynnL
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 22nd, 2009, 7:09 pm

June 26th, 2017, 5:06 pm #3

Looks good, ND thanks for setting this up.
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Joined: November 26th, 2016, 2:50 pm

June 28th, 2017, 12:56 pm #4

Hello everyone, thank you ND for bringing this up, that will improve my knowledge!! I don't know if I understand this all right: we're supossed to start reading on our own, and when the date you suggested arrives, we start discussing it? In any case, count me in. I am at a very busy time of the year, and whats more.... completely enthralled with Niccolo. I'm going midway Race of Scorpions, and starting to stay awake at night long long after it's wise. How many years will it take us to get there with our discussion groups? I badly need them... my books are packed full of notes and highlights.
So, going back, I downloaded The education of a Christian Prince in my kindle (it's available here http://www.stoics.com/erasmus_s_educati ... chris.html) the format is a little bit messy, but if anyone wants it I can send a file I tidied up.

I hope you are all having a nice summer and great holidays!! Stay tunned! Lore
Du lien de tes mains, maîtresse, je te prye.
Enlace-moy le corps, maîtresse...
Enlace-moy le corps
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Joined: February 4th, 2016, 7:09 am

July 2nd, 2017, 4:08 am #5

Thank you NigheanDubh for organising us. Sorry to be so late with feedback but I've been offline for a month having the house interior repainted so I'm looking forward to a little more leisure time ahead. I'm underway with Erasmus, and I just know I'm going to benefit hugely from the discussion, cos I'm finding it reasonably tough going.
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Joined: July 5th, 2017, 2:50 pm

July 5th, 2017, 8:19 pm #6

Hello Nighean Dubh! I've just come across this page because my Google Scholar citation index linked to it - the Whispering Gallery article is one of mine. I'm thrilled that anyone might think of using it as a springboard for more Lymond-related reading, and I wondered if there was anything I could do to enhance the experience. It does strike me that some of these books might be a little more rewarding if you came at them with some contextual information, so I thought for instance that you might like some of the links to supporting documents/ images etc that I give my undergraduates. I even have some of my lectures (there's an introduction to The Prince, for one) on mp3 if you think that wouldn't be too dull for words. Just let me know how I might help!

If anyone is finding Erasmus to be tough going, by the way, it is because it IS rather a demanding read, especially in some of the more widely-available translations. You'll find some of the other texts much more rollicking, I promise!

Best wishes for the project,

Deirdre Serjeantson
University of Essex
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NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

July 6th, 2017, 8:38 pm #7

DeirdreS wrote:Hello Nighean Dubh! I've just come across this page because my Google Scholar citation index linked to it - the Whispering Gallery article is one of mine. I'm thrilled that anyone might think of using it as a springboard for more Lymond-related reading, and I wondered if there was anything I could do to enhance the experience. It does strike me that some of these books might be a little more rewarding if you came at them with some contextual information, so I thought for instance that you might like some of the links to supporting documents/ images etc that I give my undergraduates. I even have some of my lectures (there's an introduction to The Prince, for one) on mp3 if you think that wouldn't be too dull for words. Just let me know how I might help!

If anyone is finding Erasmus to be tough going, by the way, it is because it IS rather a demanding read, especially in some of the more widely-available translations. You'll find some of the other texts much more rollicking, I promise!

Best wishes for the project,

Deirdre Serjeantson
University of Essex
Welcome! I am so excited that you spotted us. Loved the article and we will attempt to read these classics. You are welcome to join in at all times and anything that you feel would enhance our reading is most welcome. It is an honor to have you here!
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
Quote

audiobooklover
Clan Fraser
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 10:09 pm

July 6th, 2017, 9:06 pm #8

:Melissa: Welcome DeirdreS! How wonderful of you to join us and to offer your assistance for the group read of some of the classics Lymond would have read. I have to admit that I'm not ready to commit to reading everything because I'm already rather overextended in terms of group reads, but I might read some or at least pop in to see what people are discussing and I'm sure you will have lots of wonderful contextual info to share. We appreciate you joining the board and offering your expertise. We're thrilled to have you here.
Thanks!
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Joined: November 26th, 2016, 2:50 pm

July 7th, 2017, 1:38 am #9

Welcome DeirdreS, as already said, it's an honor that you came here, and it would be incredibly helpful to have your support while trying to achieve this. Myself, I'm a spanish speaker, to add to the burden, so help will be most appreciated.

I haven't had the chance to read this article, since I'm not suscribed to the Whispering Gallery, so I'll just follow your lead and read what I'm told to read.

Looking forward to august!! :Melissa: :Melissa:
Du lien de tes mains, maîtresse, je te prye.
Enlace-moy le corps, maîtresse...
Enlace-moy le corps
Quote

DLT
Clan Fraser
DLT
Clan Fraser
Joined: May 26th, 2012, 7:06 am

July 7th, 2017, 5:05 am #10

Hello, Deirdre, and welcome. I am looking forward to exploring the books that Lymond read, although I might not join in the discussion at first, because I have not yet finished the GoK series and I want to avoid spoilers. However, I will be intrigued to get all the background material on these titles.
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Joined: February 4th, 2016, 7:09 am

July 8th, 2017, 5:24 am #11

Kia ora and hello Deirdre. It's fabulous that you've found your way to the forum and I have no doubt you can help us with our read - if only to let us know what the best translations are! Although frankly, tracking down a copy of Erasmus here wasn't as straightforward as I thought it would be.

I read your article in Whispering Gallery and was jealous of the folks here who got to enjoy it when it was delivered at Oxford & Dunnett Days. It added a lot of my appreciation of DD's writing - not only did she obviously read and research these texts, but she incorporated the philosophies and thinking into Lymond's character. The explanation of humanist thinking, the commonplace book and the style of education at that time was wonderful to read about - I would simply have had no appreciation for this without 'That Private Labyrinth'.. Understanding more about Seneca's attitudes towards suicide was a revelatory moment. I also loved the cheeky asides and perhaps you could pop back when we finish our read to expand on your unlikely theory about the 'unsung heroine of the Reformation'!!

I'm sure whatever you're willing to share will be much enjoyed.
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Joined: July 5th, 2017, 2:50 pm

July 8th, 2017, 9:11 pm #12

Thank you for such a warm welcome, and for such kind words about the article! I must say, I LOVED talking at the Oxford Dunnett day, and am very excited about being invited back to give another talk next year - it is without a doubt the most fun conference on my schedule. I'm currently on maternity leave so away from the university library where I could rummage for translations of Erasmus: however, let me sift through my files and see if I can come up with anything helpful.

Erasmus was the first thing I read for my PhD. I went to my first meeting with my supervisor and said, what should I read? And she said, 'Erasmus'. So I said, 'Which book?' and she looked shocked and said "ALL OF IT'. The collected Erasmus in the university library ran to 63 volumes... In other words, I should have plenty of notes.

Best wishes,

Deirdre
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audiobooklover
Clan Fraser
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 10:09 pm

July 9th, 2017, 1:12 am #13

Congrats on the new baby, Deirdre! And, oh my! Sixty-three volumes??? That's quite an undertaking.
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NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

July 9th, 2017, 5:27 pm #14

DeirdreS wrote:Thank you for such a warm welcome, and for such kind words about the article! I must say, I LOVED talking at the Oxford Dunnett day, and am very excited about being invited back to give another talk next year - it is without a doubt the most fun conference on my schedule. I'm currently on maternity leave so away from the university library where I could rummage for translations of Erasmus: however, let me sift through my files and see if I can come up with anything helpful.

Erasmus was the first thing I read for my PhD. I went to my first meeting with my supervisor and said, what should I read? And she said, 'Erasmus'. So I said, 'Which book?' and she looked shocked and said "ALL OF IT'. The collected Erasmus in the university library ran to 63 volumes... In other words, I should have plenty of notes.

Best wishes,

Deirdre
Deirdre, I'm hoping to get to that conference some time in the future. It sounds like a fun conference.

Congratulations on the birth of your baby. Wonderful times and precious moments ahead for you and your family.

I didn't realize that there are 63 volumes of Erasmus. Thank you for being willing to enrich our study and discussion with your notes.

You must be so busy now with the little one, but if you have time in your schedule, do join any of the discussions on the OBC. If you are interested, our next Classic Read in the regular forums will be Ivanhoe. We have just completed One Hundred Years of Solitude.



For anyone who is having a difficult time finding Erasmus: The Education of a Christian Prince, I ordered the Cambridge Texts in History of Political Thought edition; edited and translated by Lisa Jardine.
I ordered it at
Amazon. I am enjoying it and seeing the Lymond connections.

It looks like it's also on Public Doman. Thank you to lormza
lormza wrote:I downloaded The education of a Christian Prince in my kindle (it's available here http://www.stoics.com/erasmus_s_educati ... chris.html) the format is a little bit messy, but if anyone wants it I can send a file I tidied up.
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
Quote

Lady Jayne
Clan Fraser
Joined: October 4th, 2009, 7:41 pm

July 9th, 2017, 9:06 pm #15

It is wonderful to have you here DeirdreS! Thank you for sharing your expertise with us. Congratulations on the new baby.
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