Dunnett:THE RINGED CASTLE: Part 3: Chapter 13

NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

April 12th, 2018, 1:55 am #1

Chapter 13 of The Ringed Castle:
 
Lymond, with Adam Blacklock, Guthrie, Hoddim enter the small chamber of justice to find the Queen’s officers, William Petre, whom we know, and Don Juan de Figueroa, a man we do not know but are told is King Philip’s high officer, his eyes and ears.
 
Hercules Tait, Danny Hislop and Ludovic d’Harcourt enter, and shortly behind them, Philippa Somerville is following Lady Lennox and John Elder. 
“After a reasonable length of time her head swam round on its neck and she bestowed a vigorous grimace on her husband.” 492  
Lymond returns the courtesy with an inquisitive and guarded look.  When Lymond notices an audience, he stops further exchanges.  (I like that they are communicating with each other, that Lymond is not pretending to ignore his wife.  Too bad about the busybodies!)
 
Peter Vannes enters last and acknowledges Roger Ascham, there to translate; the coveted box is laid in front of him.

The points of view seem to wander from Adam to Philippa and then again, that slippery third that others have mentioned.  The room is a small chamber in Westminster, heavily guarded, and people can hear Hislop's stomach and swallowing.  The Tsar's officers must stand while the important ones are seated. 

Proceedings begin with Peter Arundel's review of why they are gathered.  He informs that no force was used yet since the private papers of Edward Courtenay, it was hoped, would reveal the answers.  Since the papers did not, the council still wants to know why the box was being sought and at whose instructions.  
“Master Tait acted under my instructions,’ Lymond said.” 
All of Lymond’s men had some reaction as well as Philippa who
“stared at the ceiling inhaling and reviewed, speechlessly, a number of telling ejaculations in Turkish.” (493)
 
Lymond tells how he was acting for the Tsar and calmly explains, while Philippa listens approvingly,  the necessity of his actions to quell the rumors about England that had reached Russia.  William Petre questions this interest in the papers since Courtenay was already dead.  Lymond admits that he too corresponded with Courtenay.  But, Pembroke says that no letters from Mr. Crawford to Mr. Courtenay were found; and English intelligence knew of Lymond’s correspondence with Lychpole.  
 
“It came to Adam suddenly that these men had been concerned with the casket not only to seek evidence against the lady Elizabeth; against Dee and his friends; against all those conspirators paid by the king of France …They had been afraid, each of them, for himself.” P. 494
 
Lymond then tells the Council that the Doge and the Senate of Venice had already removed some of the papers and resealed the box.  Ahh.  The powerful men must be worried.  How loyal were they, after Edward's death but before Queen Mary became their ruler?:  
 
“The polite, probing exchanges between Edward Courtenay and the men now in high office who had not been so certain of high office when the death of one young king led to such drastic changes in religion and government”? (494)
 
The Earl of Arundel shows disbelief in order to discount the papers’ removal.  However, Figueroa vouches for Lymond and produces the said papers.  These had been passed on to King Philip and to Don Juan.  The king and his officer had concluded that the papers were of no importance, could be destroyed, and the charges against the Russian officers be dropped, provided that Lymond, his talents and his men leave the country.  They are all free.  It is Lennox who needs to inquire about Philippa's fate in this event.   Philippa’s punishment would be removal from Queen Mary’s court.  
 
 Before Lymond leaves, Sir William Petre has a question: “When did you have your audience with the King Philip, Mr. Crawford?’
Lymond:  “I can not quite recall… But I think shortly after we concluded the agreement concerning the munitions of war. “ 497
 
Lymond exchanges words with Margaret Lennox, and then with his wife, and leaves.   Next, Lymond is on the barge heading for the Primrose, and none too soon for King Philip.  
 
On the barge, Lymond’s men tell Lymond that they want to go to Russia with him; he refuses.   The king has made arrangements for lodging and they are heading there; Lymond does not want to go to the lodging.  Lymond wants to keep going to the ship.  It's a mini mutiny between Lymond and his men.  Lymond argues all the way from Westminster while a smaller barge heads toward them.  Lymond is then thrown into the smaller barge.  The wind is knocked out of him, but stealthily, he regains force and  starts up again.  They are creating quite a scene, to be sure.  No wonder the ("King of Spain was anxious to speed his embarrassing guests towards Russia")There is shouting from a nearby caravel.  A hackbut is fired!   Other passing fishing boats hear the fray to be sure.  Totally riven by anger, Francis draws out a small dagger, utters "now" magisterially, and stabs Alec and then Hislop, slashes Hoddim--the men are unable to take him down.  It is the hired boatman from the small barge, who with a plank, takes their master down by delivering a blow to his head. (501)  (Oh no!!! Not his head!)
 

Questions
 
1.  What do you make of Lymond’s exchanges with Philippa—“inquisitive and guarded” from himself after Philippa grimaces?
2.  Does anyone know the history of Courtenay’s papers, aside from what we learn here?
3.  Why does Figueroa make eye contact with Lymond and then with Philippa when he verifies Lymond’s claim? What is he          trying to glean from each of them?  
4.  Were you surprised to discover that Lymond had had an audience with King Philip?
5.  Does it make more sense as to why Sidney bought back the Cicero? 
6.  Do you think that Sidney knew of Lymond’s audience and agreement to get pewter instead of the munitions?  
7.  Why did Lymond have and audience with King Philip? Why would Lymond   opt for pewter?  
8.  Philippa approved of her husband’s demeanor, and thought his delivery was perfect.  Is Philippa being impartial here?
9.  What does Lymond mean here:  
“Master Dimmock was most generous with advice concerning the pewter.  I trust the lion and lioness will prove no more dangerous. It is my conviction that, in matters of trade, the English and Muscovites will deal well together." (497)
10. Do you think William Petre is worried about how Russia will treat the English merchants?
11. What did you make of Lady Lennox’s challenge about Lymond’s lack of    interest in his homeland?  Why does Lymond            speak loudly enough so that men of importance can hear him?  What does he want them to know?
12. Margaret threatens to be present at Lymond’s death.  “Guard your health.”  What was the look that was so hidden in                Margaret Lennox’s eyes? 
13. What did you think of the bantering between Lymond and Philippa: feathers vs. featherbrains, Austin vs. Don Alfonso,              annulment?  When?  
Not Cyrus, said Lymond. 'I'm the other one.  He pincheth and spareth and pineth his life.  To coffer up bags for to leave to his wife.  The pay is good.  (498)
He wants to know which man Philippa will choose.  

14.  Lymond has indeed met his match.  He knows that somehow Philippa was involved with the outcome. 
"Which reminds me.  There were one or two mysteries about these last proceedings which I can see are going to be forever unexplained.  I think I owe you another debt."  
Which debt is this?  Did it have anything to do with Philippa's visit to  Peter Vannes in the previous chapter?   

14. Did it make you sad that they wouldn't be able to chat about what happened as he was planning to leave: 
“I owe you a great many debts, it would appear:  It is time I removed myself and allowed you to allot your endowments where they are better deserved. Goodbye.”   “Goodbye Yunitsa.”(498)
Lots of intrigue....What did Philippa do?  Guesses, based on what everyone has read thus far?

15.  Should d’Harcourt have told Philippa what “yunitsa” means?  Why didn’t he?  Do you think he was surprised that Lymond had addressed Philippa with this endearment?

"Goodbye, Yunitsa"
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
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Joined: October 12th, 2016, 1:49 am

April 12th, 2018, 4:43 am #2

 
Thanks dear ND for this terrific summary of the second last chapter. It is becoming a wild and crazy roller coaster as Darling Dorothy spins her web of intrigue! I have tried my best with some of the Questions
 
1.  What do you make of Lymond’s exchanges with Philippa—“inquisitive and guarded” from himself after Philippa grimaces?  An attempt to communicate. What have you done?
 
 Does anyone know the history of Courtenay’s papers, aside from what we learn here?  I think Darling Dorothy’s research was better than Google!!!

3.  Why does Figueroa make eye contact with Lymond and then with Philippa when he verifies Lymond’s claim? What is he trying to glean from each of them?  I think he is acknowledging his part in a bargain.

4.  Were you surprised to discover that Lymond had had an audience with King Philip?  I cheered. Our hero is so clever.

5.  Does it make more sense as to why Sidney bought back the Cicero?  I’ve always thought that was purely a gift because of Diccon.

6.  Do you think that Sidney knew of Lymond’s audience and agreement to get pewter instead of the munitions?  Are we all totally sure that pewter is not a euphemism?

7.  Why did Lymond have and audience with King Philip?  FC has already confessed his communication with Courtenay and enlisted Phillip’s interest against the Privy Council. Why would Lymond   opt for pewter?  See #6

8.  Philippa approved of her husband’s demeanor, and thought his delivery was perfect.  Is Philippa being impartial here?  That growing adult intellectual respect is there along with what is possibly underlying it…who knows?

9.  What does Lymond mean here:  
“Master Dimmock was most generous with advice concerning the pewter.  I trust the lion and lioness will prove no more dangerous. It is my conviction that, in matters of trade, the English and Muscovites will deal well together." (497)
 A very backhanded compliment…tricky is as tricky does.See #6
 
10. Do you think William Petre is worried about how Russia will treat the English merchants? I think he knows that there are  enough bonds already that English explorers and traders will be valued from this point.

11. What did you make of Lady Lennox’s challenge about  Lymond’s lack of interest in his homeland?  Why does Lymond  speak loudly enough so that men of importance can hear him?  What does he want them to know? It was almost like he was trying to convince himself.

12. Margaret threatens to be present at Lymond’s death.  “Guard your health.”  What was the look that was so hidden in Margaret Lennox’s eyes? I just despise her in this scene. I think there is total hate in her eyes along with that long buried lust. Even after all their history to this point, there is still  attraction at least on her side mixed  with the woman scorned hatred.
 
13. What did you think of the bantering between Lymond and Philippa: feathers vs. featherbrains  Austin vs. Don Alfonso
Not Cyrus, said Lymond. 'I'm the other one.  He pincheth and spareth and pineth his life.  To coffer up bags for to leave to his wife.  The pay is good.  (498)
He wants to know which man Philippa will choose.  
Banter about ML and the harem of drakes and FC’s feather headedness as Philippa sees it for wanting to go to Russia at all.

14.  Lymond has indeed met his match.  He knows that somehow Philippa was involved with the outcome. 
"Which reminds me.  There were one or two mysteries about these last proceedings which I can see are going to be forever unexplained.  I think I owe you another debt."  
Which debt is this?  Did it have anything to do with Philippa's visit to Peter Vannes in the previous chapter?  Peter  Vannes was the English Ambassador to Venice. Whether or not he brought Courtenay's papers back from Padua, he did write an account of EC’s death for Mary Tudor. Philippa went to see Michael Surian the Venetian Ambassador.
 
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-s ... xxii-cxxix
 
 Remember that the Venetians hated the Spanish because of the imperial impact on the trade of the Republic. Philippa is pitting the Venetians against the English Court and using her influence with Don Alfonso to involve the Spanish. Very dangerous. I doubt whether she knew about FC’s audience with Phillip.

14. Did it make you sad that they wouldn't be able to chat about what happened as he was planning to leave: 
“I owe you a great many debts, it would appear:  It is time I removed myself and allowed you to allot your endowments where they are better deserved. Goodbye.”   “Goodbye Yunitsa.”(498)
Boo Hoo
 
Lots of intrigue....What did Philippa do?  Guesses, based on what everyone has read thus far? See my answer to # 14. I think Philippa also got John Dee to let Elizabeth know, as well as make sure Ascham was at the hearingas well as somehow involving Don Alfonso.

15.  Should d’Harcourt have told Philippa what “yunitsa” means?  Why didn’t he?  Do you think he was surprised that Lymond had addressed Philippa with this endearment? Ludo is already watching FC and Philippa closely (even at the hearing) he must be conflicted here… he can see the connection between them and he is unsure of how to handle FC’s endearment and what it might mean for Philippa.

I have a burning question of my own…who hired the other boat and felled FC with the plank? Philippa? Any ideas please share!
Heather
 
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audiobooklover
Clan Fraser
Joined: July 19th, 2010, 10:09 pm

April 12th, 2018, 3:00 pm #3

Thanks for the summary, questions and responses.  Though, I have to admit that I'm still feeling muddled.  

As soon as Venice was mentioned, I thought of Philippa's visit to the Venetian ambassador, but I still have no idea what exactly she did there.  And, I didn't remember (from my previous read) that Lymond had met with the king so I was completely surprised (again), nor did I know about the tensions between the Venetians and the Spanish that hevva mentioned, but I'm still confused about all that happened in this chapter and who arranged what.

And, like hevva, I also wondered who hired the boat and hit Lymond in the head at the end.  I agree with the comment "Oh no!!! Not his head!"

Margaret Lennox is awful and I'm glad she left without Philippa.  It wasn't clear to me that Philippa would consider being removed from the court any sort of punishment.  Admittedly, she's learned a lot there and I know she feels empathy for the queen, but I don't think she particularly loves being there.  And, didn't she want to go to France to look further into Lymond's parentage issues anyway?

And, thanks to hevva for the comment about the pewter maybe not truly being pewter.  If the "pewter" is really still arms, then Lymond is safer returning to Russia than we expected and I hadn't considered that possibility.

I look forward to reading additional discussion to maybe help figure out the politics and the maneuvers to figure out what actually happened here.
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Joined: November 26th, 2016, 2:50 pm

April 12th, 2018, 3:50 pm #4

Thanks ND!! fantastic summary!! things are really heating up!! I have still to read the chapter, so I'll give a try to your questions later. I just can't believe I'll miss the last chapter 😭. We're going on vacation for a couple of weeks, and lovely as caribbean beaches are, I won't have steady internet connection, so I'll be thinking about you!!

Coming back later, and good answers hevva, I'm already thinking about them.
Du lien de tes mains, maîtresse, je te prye.
Enlace-moy le corps, maîtresse...
Enlace-moy le corps
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Joined: June 4th, 2014, 8:47 am

April 12th, 2018, 7:04 pm #5

ND, great, amazing summary of one totally confusing chapter! Thank you. (As an aside, I once again did not receive any notification about your starting a new chapter summary. Boo Hoo. I'm glad I decided to look on my own. Tapatalk is frustrating).

I find this chapter so confusing. I still don't think I fully understand everything that happened and why. But here goes.

Questions
 
1.  What do you make of Lymond’s exchanges with Philippa—“inquisitive and guarded” from himself after Philippa grimaces?

Non-verbal communication designed to avoid giving away anything to other prying eyes. And there are a lot of prying eyes in that room. Lymond suspects Philippa has (once again) been up to something, but he doesn't know what.

2.  Does anyone know the history of Courtenay’s papers, aside from what we learn here? 

This is from Henry Grey, 3rd Marquis of Dorset, 2nd Duke of Suffolk , by James D. Taylor Jr. How lovely that Dorothy found this enigma and wove it seamlessly into her story!
courtenay (2).jpg

4.  Were you surprised to discover that Lymond had had an audience with King Philip?
YES! I was shocked. But the more I thought about it, the less surprised I was. After all, this is our Lymond, right? And he kept asking "why? why? why?" which means that he would have been determined to get an answer.

6.  Do you think that Sidney knew of Lymond’s audience and agreement to get pewter instead of the munitions?  
I'm with Heather here. The repetition of "pewter" makes me think it's a euphemism for something else...probably some sort of munitions. I don't know that, but I suspect it. I don't think Lymond wouldn't leave England without something to bring the Tsar.

I don't have time for more right now but I look forward to coming back to read and comment more.
"Look up," said the Master, "and see them. The teaching stars, beyond worship and commonplace tongues. The infinite eyes of innocence." Dorothy Dunnett, Game of Kings
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Joined: January 31st, 2017, 5:26 am

April 12th, 2018, 7:33 pm #6

ND Thank you for your summary. Hard to believe we are almost to the end with still more questions! I will come back with my thoughts on your questions once I can get back to my desktop but here are a couple of observations.

The meeting with King P a surprise and I wanted to go back and reread that section to see if there was a hint.

I do think the "pewter" is a cover for something.

Whoever hired the boat does not want LC to reach the Primrose so my money is on his bride but what then? He can't stay in England and won't go to Scotland.

It struck me as Phillipa entered the room it was an echo of when she entered the room for the chess game and was seated next to Roxelana. Also caught the sly comment about Arundel and playing chess.

I do think ML has made it pretty clear she is out to get Lymond. Watch out Phillipa.

I had to write out the political alliances and am still processing why Lymond got the "pewter" when King P needed all the arms he could get. More later and thanks to all for comments above.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Deirdre

"And deep within him, missing its accustomed tread,his heart paused, and gave one single stroke...
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NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

April 13th, 2018, 1:36 am #7

There was certainly plenty of intrigue with this chapter.  There were so many moments that were perplexing.  I also thought some of the moments were hilarious.  Danny Hislop getting carried away with his eye movements that a yeoman had to chastise him...that was funny.  If felt so real to me, as if I were there in the corner, hearing the gulps, the stomach noises.  The idea of Philippa swearing in Turkish was very liberating for a woman in those times and I wish Lymond could have read her mind just then.  What would he have been thinking?  Eh?

The looks between husband and wife were certainly interesting, not only to the reader but to Ludo d'Harcourt.   When Lymond notices that d'Harcourt is looking at his looking at Philippa and the communication between himself and his wife, he stops and d'Harcourt turns away reddened.  It was interesting to study the facial nuances of the faces there.  
My question is how does Lymond know from her vigorous grimace that Philippa has done something, something that he will need to be grateful for?  Has he seen her do this grimace before?  It seems Philippa isn't the only one who is tuned into her spouse's nuances and movements of body.  
 
Hevva thank you for pointing out the correct name of the Ambassador that Philippa visits.  That cleared things up for me too.  So many thanks.   I have to wonder about the remark about pewter being no more dangerous than carrying a lion and a lioness on their ship.  Hmm.  It may be more than just pewter. Is there double dealing on Lymond's part too?  

Hevva wrote: I think Philippa also got John Dee to let Elizabeth know, as well as make sure Ascham was at the hearing as well as somehow involving Don Alfonso.
Thank you, Hevva.  I had not even had a whisper of a thought with regard to why Ascham appeared.  I understands...that was Philippa's doing.  Lymond knew he hadn't had any communication with Ascham.  Maybe that clued him in that there was something afoot.  Well done, Philippa.  All those errands that Philippa took upon herself make sense now.  
Clewless wrote:  This is from Henry Grey, 3rd Marquis of Dorset, 2nd Duke of Suffolk , by James D. Taylor Jr. How lovely that Dorothy found this enigma and wove it seamlessly into her story!
Thank you for posting this bit about Courtenay.  Great to read.  It rounds out the box of papers and I think that casket has become a character in itself for me.  That Dorothy was just brilliant! Wow!
D2MAC: It struck me as Phillipa entered the room it was an echo of when she entered the room for the chess game and was seated next to Roxelana. Also caught the sly comment about Arundel and playing chess.
Nice catch, D2Mac.  While I had noted the line that spoke of Lymond having played chess with better men than Henry Fitzalan, I had not seen the connection between the wicked and ruthless Lennox woman and Roxelana.  What I did notice was, that while under house arrest, Lymond  "was virtually unbeatable at card games." (Vintage, p. 491)  No surprise that Lymond would be an expert at bluffing.  Did you think back to another courtroom, another reference to card play (Tarot perhaps?  Did Lymond learn from Jonathan Crouch, too, as Will had? {loved Will and I miss him}) There seem to be a lot of back references.  

And Lymond does honor to his bride as he speaks to the Privy Council.  She seems to be taking into account his better qualities here, as he took stock of hers on the barge.  Speaking of the barge, I don't know who took a 2 by 4, or something similar, to Lymond's head, and it could have been Philippa, but knowing of his headaches would she....Yeah, she probably did.  Perhaps it's a back shadowing of the wooden axe on his head? 
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
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DLT
Clan Fraser
DLT
Clan Fraser
Joined: May 26th, 2012, 7:06 am

April 13th, 2018, 7:10 am #8

Thanks for the summary, NigheanDubh, and for highlighting some of the things to look out for. As usual, I was totally confused by this chapter, especially with how a barge crashed into the boat that Lymond and the others were on if it was his own men who then attacked him. I worried when Lymond confessed to ordering his men to attack the messenger, but he covered that well by explaining he did it for Russia. I am perturbed that there is only one chapter left, and so much to resolve ...
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Joined: June 5th, 2017, 11:15 am

April 13th, 2018, 3:15 pm #9

Great summary and interesting questions, Nighean Dubh.

My view on Lymond’s visit to King Philip is that no such visit took place. L. does not know that any letters implicating him had been removed from the box and did not fall into the Council’s hands. This is the reason for him admitting to having ordered the assault on the box. He wants to protect others by drawing the guilt on himself and then trying to say he was acting under orders from the Tsar.
Another indicator that there was no visit to King Philip comes when L is stalling when asked by Petre when this visit took place. His answer - indicating the same time when Petre and Co. heard about the changes in Moscow and instituted their cheating of L. - just means to show Petre that L. can cheat equally as well as the English. The person who actually did all the work here was Philippa. Her visit to the Venetian ambassador must have elicited the information that he was in possession of the letters and willing to give them to Don Juan de Figeroa (or that the letters had been passed on to Figeroa already). Philippa’s end of the deal must have been her promise on L’s behalf that he would return to Russia so King Philip would not have to deal with him in Europe. Philip certainly would not have been comfortable with L. in Scotland or the Continent. 

Can’t figure out the Pewter either. Does it have anything to do with the lions? I recall from the previous chapter that Petre handed over the Queen’s gifts for the Tsar to Nepeja at Dimmock’s house and came away smiling. Had some sort of deal taken place here already? Why would care have to be taken to store pewter? At the end, L and Petre seem to be happy with whatever ‘deal’ they have struck. They agree, England and Russia will do well trading togehter.

The conversation between L and Margaret Lennox is pitched so that others can hear because L is accusing Margaret of wanting the Scottish throne for her husband which would not be in England’s interest.

The hirer of the second boat and the person that hit L over the head with an oar could either be Philippa or maybe Sidney on Philippa’s behalf. ‘who stepped quietly round with a bottom plank’, could indicate the lighter tread of a woman. Better even, the sentence above states that ‘no man, friend or enemy, was going to stop him [Lymond]’. It is actually a woman - Philippa.
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Joined: January 31st, 2017, 5:26 am

April 13th, 2018, 8:43 pm #10

I was curious if there was a hint about when Lymond had his meeting with King Phillip and went back to reread the chapters.  I picked up a couple of other things in the process!

On the way to the Revels in the boat, Phillipa started to tell Lymond something about Michael Surian, the new Ambassador from Venice but was interrupted by Ludo.  Phillipa says that she will tell Lymond later but as we know never had the chance then or later.  I am curious as to what she wanted to tell him,   (page 431).

It's always been confusing as to how or why Ludo got involved in the attempts to get the casket.  On the  boat ride to the Revels, Ludo broaches the topic of who may be the villain who had tried to kill Lymond in Russia, and Ludo says "if you suspect me, it is not without cause." (page 432).   I think Ludo is so taken with Phillipa (and even more so after the events of the Revel), that he has become very concerned for her well-being and not just her recovery from a bump on the head.  He will do whatever he can do to protect her and at the same time prove himself to Lymond.  On the boat ride he states:
I shall serve you to the best of my ability.  You will be safe from me and I swear I shall protect you against any man wishing to harm you.  And if you fear any danger to that girl, I beg you, take her back with you.  She is worth...I have never encountered her like." (page 432).
Lymond tells Ludo that if anything threatens his liberty in the next three weeks, Phillipa will be implicated and may not live as a result. 

One possible point where Lymond could have met with King Phillip is after the ceremonial leave taking of ON in which the whole court was in attendance. Phillipa ran down to the landing stage to look for Lymond, but the Voevoda Bolshoia had vanished, could not be found anywhere and no one knew where he had gone, the assumption being that he made his own way back to Fenchurch Street.    Later He did return to Fenchurch street and encountered Ludo who delivered the message about Gardington.  Where did the VB go (notice it is not Lymond)?  Is this when he circled back and had a discrete meeting with KP??
Deirdre

"And deep within him, missing its accustomed tread,his heart paused, and gave one single stroke...
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Joined: January 31st, 2017, 5:26 am

April 13th, 2018, 9:19 pm #11

So many good questions; I took a stab at most of them.  

1.  What do you make of Lymond’s exchanges with Philippa—“inquisitive and guarded” from himself after Philippa grimaces?  I take it that he did not know she was a "guest" of Lady Lennox and was surprised to see her come in with ML and Elder.
2.  Does anyone know the history of Courtenay’s papers, aside from what we learn here?  Thank you Clewless for great research!  Love how DD manages to incorporate obscure bits of history into her plot!
3.  Why does Figueroa make eye contact with Lymond and then with Philippa when he verifies Lymond’s claim? What is he trying to glean from each of them?  Not sure and wondered if this had something to do with PS's visit to the new Venetian Ambassador? 
4.  Were you surprised to discover that Lymond had had an audience with King Philip? Yes; see my earlier post.  I think it may have been after the ceremonial leave taking of ON. 
5.  Does it make more sense as to why Sidney bought back the Cicero? Given its cost, it was a very heartfelt recognition of what Lymond had done to rescue Chancellor, their friendship and what Lymond had done to support the Muscovy Mission but also they could not accept the "gift."  
6.  Do you think that Sidney knew of Lymond’s audience and agreement to get pewter instead of the munitions?  I think the "pewter" is some form of munitions but not exactly what Lymond had hoped for.
7.  Why did Lymond have and audience with King Philip? Why would Lymond   opt for pewter?  
8.  Philippa approved of her husband’s demeanor, and thought his delivery was perfect.  Is Philippa being impartial here?
9.  What does Lymond mean here:  
“Master Dimmock was most generous with advice concerning the pewter.  I trust the lion and lioness will prove no more dangerous. It is my conviction that, in matters of trade, the English and Muscovites will deal well together." (497)
10. Do you think William Petre is worried about how Russia will treat the English merchants?  I think this would be reasonable on his part given what they know about Ivan.
11. What did you make of Lady Lennox’s challenge about Lymond’s lack of    interest in his homeland?  Why does Lymond  speak loudly enough so that men of importance can hear him?  What does he want them to know? Just what a corrupt scheming woman she is and not to be trusted.  
12. Margaret threatens to be present at Lymond’s death.  “Guard your health.”  What was the look that was so hidden in  Margaret Lennox’s eyes?   That she, like many other women, was in love with him?  He has repudiated her several times, and love hath no fury like a woman scorned!

Which debt is this?  Did it have anything to do with Philippa's visit to  Peter Vannes in the previous chapter?   Yes I think so but to Michael Surien as noted earlier.  

14. Did it make you sad that they wouldn't be able to chat about what happened as he was planning to leave:  Yes, there is so much unfinished business between these two and the "goodbye Yunitsa" was hard.

15.  Should d’Harcourt have told Philippa what “yunitsa” means?  Why didn’t he?  Do you think he was surprised that Lymond had addressed Philippa with this endearment?  Yes, I think he was surprised as d'Harcourt was not happy with Lymond for not taking more interest in Phillipa after her fall.  On the other hand, he is quite taken with Phillipa so it's hard to know why he didn't tell her.  Maybe knowing it would not be easy to tell her and not the right time or place either?
Deirdre

"And deep within him, missing its accustomed tread,his heart paused, and gave one single stroke...
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Joined: February 4th, 2016, 7:09 am

April 15th, 2018, 3:17 am #12

Now that's a thought provoking set of questions NigheanDubh. 

I'm intrigued at the collection of people who make it into the room.  There's a lot of political factions and history at Westminster that day.  I assume Philippa's divorce gives Margaret her in, as the keeper of the 'valued visitor'. 

Hevva and Clewless, thanks for the additional info on Courtenay's papers - how very intriguing to learn that the letters are based on fact, and how clever of DD to use that information for her plot.  There's a very small echo back to PiF when Lymond and Philippa are exchanging notes via the Jewish laundrywoman - I think they were marked with a little star.  D2MAC, good point about chess game and Philippa being placed next to Margaret.  I take it as a very subtle signal that this situation is equally as life-threatening as the chess game.  In this case, everyone has made it out of the room alive .. to date.  Great research too on the Venetian ambassador - nice catch with that little throwaway line about the new Venetian ambassador in the Revels chapter.  I'm also very willing to believe that Lymond did meet KP after the farewell banquet - great deduction.

Overthehills, it hadn't occured to me that Lymond was bluffing and the meeting hadn't taken place.  I'm so confused!   It'll be interesting to see if it is pewter on the Primrose, or not.  My thinking is not.  With Lymond categorically determined to return to Russia, maybe the English have been able to come up with a little 'something' that will keep Ivan from carrying out his threat against Lymond on his return.  They would benefit from Lymond's stabilising influence to further trade, if nothing else.  Master Dimmock wouldn't have needed advice on how to stow it if the pewter was 'standard cargo'.
Overthehills:  The conversation between L and Margaret Lennox is pitched so that others can hear because L is accusing Margaret of wanting the Scottish throne for her husband which would not be in England’s interest.
Even more than that, Lymond is explaining the deal Margaret Lennox tried to strike with Lymond back in Pt III Ch 8 - in exchange for leaving Kate and Philippa alone, Lymond was to help Margaret get Tantallon Castle in Scotland back.  That might strengthen her claim but the Plan B is to put her son Darnley on the throne by marrying him to the Scottish Queen Mary (should the Dauphin die).  By ensuring everyone hears it, he pretty much ruins her plan because those who've just had reason to reaffirm their loyalty to English Mary will now be on guard for a Lennox plan. 
"Do you mean that Scotland should rise and overthrow her French rules and appoint a King of her own, with Stewart blood in his veins as strong as that of the little Queen Mary?  But would such a king not constitute a threat in himself to your monarchy.  And where, besides, could one find such a paragon?"
When Margaret threatens Lymond, she means it.  All of her plotting and long term planning is probably dashed - her own ambitions, and those for her son.  If she was vengeful as a woman scorned, she is going to be extraordinary now.  Philippa will be well away from that Court. 
The English tell Lymond they know he was corresponding with Lychpole.  When Lymond says "You astonish me .. May I know what directed your attention to Master Lychpole?" I think that is a bluff.  Philippa's told Lymond that Margaret is spying on that correspondence, right?  I don't think Lymond was caught out for long by Lychpole and could have been feeding false information via him.
Did Lymond actually correspond with Edward Courtenay?  He was corresponding with Venice, but I always thought that was Tait.  Or is Lymond just saying that did to provide an excuse for wanting the return of the letters and avoiding espionage charges?  The one thing that Lymond seems to have been blind-sided by is that his men will return to Russia with him.  He thought he'd be going alone - maybe Ludo and Hislop too.  But their decision to all accompany him back now means he's not the only one who can die there.  
NigheanDubh asked:  5.  Does it make more sense as to why Sidney bought back the Cicero?
Are you suggesting that Sidney bought back the Cicero because he knew the English weren't going to live up to their side of the bargain?  But I'm partly wondering if that Cicero hasn't changed hands again as part of the deal-making here.  Although, with those beautiful inscriptions, I suspect Lymond would find it a larger wrench to let it go again.
And who's the hirer of the boat who's knocked out our hero?  It's got stuch strong echos of the 'hit him' scene with Austin, surely it's Phillipa?
Nice throwaway line back to Lymond's role as Don Luis back in GOK - Lymond says "Ít was a pleasure to revive my rusting Spanish." 
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Joined: August 7th, 2017, 4:50 am

April 15th, 2018, 5:01 am #13

Thanks for summarizing a dense chapter, NigheanDubh. 

After reading it the first time, I only had this comment: Lymond’s friends seem to have his best interests at their heart — by injuring him and getting injured as they prevent him from going to the ship that will sail back to Russia. 

After reading it a second time, it was only slightly less confusing.  Everyone's answers to ND's questions helps clarify things a little bit more.  I'll respond to some of the questions; for the others, I have absolutely no idea.

1.  What do you make of Lymond’s exchanges with Philippa—“inquisitive and guarded” from himself after Philippa grimaces?
I thought Lymond was trying to figure out what if anything Philippa had done.  He'd told her to stay out of his life, and she might have thought he meant in general as well as her attempts to discover his ancestry, so I'm guessing Philippa grimaces because she thinks he probably won't be happy that she interfered again.

3.  Why does Figueroa make eye contact with Lymond and then with Philippa when he verifies Lymond’s claim? What is he trying to glean from each of them?
I kind of thought he was daring them to contradict him because it wasn't, in fact, true.  But then it seemed it was indeed true so, really, I have no idea.

4.  Were you surprised to discover that Lymond had had an audience with King Philip?
Yes, because I'd forgotten he'd returned from Spain.

6.  Do you think that Sidney knew of Lymond’s audience and agreement to get pewter instead of the munitions?
I was and am confused by this reference to pewter.  It makes mores sense that "pewter" is actually something different, as has been suggested by other comments.
 
11. What did you make of Lady Lennox’s challenge about Lymond’s lack of interest in his homeland?  Why does Lymond speak loudly enough so that men of importance can hear him?  What does he want them to know?
Like overthehills said, I thought it was so the Englishmen would know of Margaret Lennox's scheming and her plans to rule Scotland through her son.

12. Margaret threatens to be present at Lymond’s death.  “Guard your health.”  What was the look that was so hidden in Margaret Lennox’s eyes?
Her speech was very sinister.  It was clear she meant every word.  Both Lymond and Philippa are much better off if they are out of England.

14. Did it make you sad that they wouldn't be able to chat about what happened as he was planning to leave?
Yes. Because then readers would have been filled in on what was going on!  But that wouldn't have been in keeping with how these books are written, so it wasn't exactly a surprise, either, that they didn't.

15.  Should d’Harcourt have told Philippa what “yunitsa” means?  Why didn’t he?  Do you think he was surprised that Lymond had addressed Philippa with this endearment?
No, I don't think he should have told her -- it really wasn't his place to get in between husband and wife.  And, yes, I do think he was surprised that Lymond used that term of endearment.  (Slight tangent: Thanks, ND, for spelling out the word in Cyrillic in the other thread.  I'd forgotten how to say it and was giving the "y" a Spanish pronunciation until I read your post over there.)  Maybe he was so surprised that he was rendered speechless and the moment for explaining its other meaning was lost.  Of course, by not telling Philippa what it meant, it means she is still in the dark about Lymond's true feelings, which means there is plenty of opportunity in the next book for lots of things to happen in their relationship.
 
If one cannot enjoy reading a book over and over again, there is no use in reading it at all. ~ Oscar Wilde
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'I noticed you capped all my best quotations,' said Lymond absently. ~ The Ringed Castle
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Joined: June 4th, 2014, 8:47 am

April 15th, 2018, 2:56 pm #14

Great discussion, all. I have really been puzzling over one fact: why would King Philip send his "eyes and ears" to, in effect, get Lymond (and his men and Philippa) off the hook? What did Lymond say to King Philip? What kind of deal did they make? There has to be a pretty strong motive for the King of Spain to take the trouble to intervene to rescue Lymond et al.

In trying to figure this out, I thought about the historical facts surrounding these events.

Philip had just returned to England in March (1557) to try to get Mary Tudor to provide more support for his war against the Pope and France. Up to this point, the English Privy Council and Parliament were extremely reluctant to provide the military aid, instead offering only small loans. Now it's late April/early May and a new opportunity has presented itself: the papers that would show the past "availability" of the members of the Privy Council. They are survivors to a man, and they have brought with them baggage from earlier regimes: 

They had been afraid, each of them, for himself. ... The polite, probing exchanges between Edward Courtenay and the men now in high office who had not been so certain of high office when the death of one young king led to such drastic changes in religion and government. Men who made their availability known and who perhaps went even further, in the early days, before the Queen took her throne...
Lymond, through his extensive spy network, knew there was incriminating evidence in these papers and probably hinted to Philip (perhaps even told Philip directly) that the papers existed, who was incriminated, and who already had read the letters (the Doge and the Venetian Council of 10). Philip didn't actually get his hands on the papers until Vannes arrived in London only a few days ago, but knowing what Vannes would be bringing, Philip was prepared ahead of time (by Lymond) for the contents of the letters.

All these members of the Privy Council are schemers and all would try to hedge their bets in the event that Mary Tudor, whose health is frail, died. Since she had failed to produce an heir, her likely successor is none other than her sister Elizabeth. Philip knows this, and he needs to think ahead to the next English monarch as well as try to handle the current one. The councilors also know this, and they have already been through earth-shattering and extremely dangerous regime changes over the past several years, so not only do they not want anything incriminating about themselves revealed, they also do not want anything damaging about Princess Elizabeth to become known. Everyone, it seems, has a very powerful motive to keep the contents of the papers secret. Except Margaret Douglas, a truly devout Catholic, who would love for all this to come out but who lacks the power to make it happen.

Therefore, it makes sense that Philip would intervene to make sure the Privy Councilors know he has their letters and will not use them as long as they do his bidding. In fact, on June 7, Mary declared war on France, so this little episode with the councilors and the purloined letters had its desired effect as far as the Spanish are concerned. (Of course, the Stafford rebellion, funded by Henry II of France, played a big part in turning English sentiment against France and encouraging bellicosity, but DD's brilliant way of spinning this web of intrigue using historical facts is incomparable).

Thus, Philip would have reason to reward Lymond for sharing the fruits of his espionage, but is there something more at work? As Deirdre pointed out, it was the Voevoda Bolshoia who went to see Philip, and as such, the VB would lay out the advantages to England and Spain of a good working relationship if not an alliance with Russia. Russia, left to others, might well become a threat to Europe, but if Lymond can return with munitions, he believes he still has a good chance not only to survive but even to retake control of the army and, more importantly, win the Tsar's trust and favor. 

Still unknown: why would the English ambassador Peter Vannes give the letters to King Philip? What did Philippa do in this whole escapade? What did the Venetian ambassador Surian have to do with all this? Yes, indeed, there are "one of two mysteries" remaining!
"Look up," said the Master, "and see them. The teaching stars, beyond worship and commonplace tongues. The infinite eyes of innocence." Dorothy Dunnett, Game of Kings
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NigheanDubh
Clan Fraser
Joined: September 17th, 2009, 3:16 am

April 15th, 2018, 6:23 pm #15

Clewless wrote:  ..."but DD's brilliant way of spinning this web of intrigue using historical facts is incomparable)."
Clewless, wonderful post which added greater understanding, with the historical perspective.  I am astounded at how clever DD was.  I bow to her. 

Great posts and comments, everyone, and thank you for answering my questions.   I have some more below. 

kiwijo wrote:  "By ensuring everyone hears it, he pretty much ruins her plan because those who've just had reason to reaffirm their loyalty to English Mary will now be on guard for a Lennox plan. 
"Do you mean that Scotland should rise and overthrow her French rules and appoint a King of her own, with Stewart blood in his veins as strong as that of the little Queen Mary?  But would such a king not constitute a threat in himself to your monarchy.  And where, besides, could one find such a paragon?"
When Margaret threatens Lymond, she means it.  All of her plotting and long term planning is probably dashed - her own ambitions, and those for her son.  If she was vengeful as a woman scorned, she is going to be extraordinary now.  Philippa will be well away from that Court. "
Kiwijo, your post leads me to believe that in order to protect Philippa from Margaret Lennox, she was removed from the court.  It was not a punishment, although meant to be perceived as one, but a protective move, and perhaps one that Lymond would have posed with Figueroa and/or King Phillip, a step ahead of Lennox.  It stands to reason that Lennox would have wanted to hurt Lymond by hurting Philippa.  She's been studying every interaction between husband and wife to figure out just what lies between those two.  Has ML guessed that Lymond loves Philippa?  Elizabeth had warned Philippa about divorcing Lymond.  There was no way that Philippa would ever be safe in Mary's court while Lennox was also present.  At least Lymond would have Philippa out of that court and could have some peace of mind sailing for Russia.

Another question:  In the last chapter Lymond mentioned something about a small pension for Güzel.  What did him mean?

In this chapter they speak of Cyrus "To coffer up bags for to leave to his wife.  The pay is good... "
I believe, for that brief moment, he fantasized about her being his wife.  He changes gears after saying what he didn't want to say.  She is his wife, legally, after all.  
I wonder if Lymond is loath to let go, not until he knows whom Philippa will choose.  Why does he need to know other than to uncover Philippa's heart?  What is he fishing for?  Is he wondering about how Philippa feels about him? I want to believe he has that little niggling sentiment he can't let go of?  He may want to make sure that she's not interested in him.  That would make it so much worse in his estimation.  But she has done quite a bit for him.  Surely it can't be "eros" but "philia" that has led Philippa to do so much for her friend.  We never know why she has gone to all these lengths.  Is it "philia" or "eros"? 

Philippa complains that she needs that annulment before she can choose someone.  Lymond, and I believe he meant it playfully, said that Philippa could get an annulment by claiming "desertion."  Well, that's a slip of some kind.  Does that mean, as I'm interpreting, that he isn't quite read to let her go.  Oh...squeezing my eyes into a frown as I type, it's so hard for this poor man to deny what he yearns for.  Can we even begin to imagine?  He makes a joke to hide the pain, imo.  

Did you find Philippa's response, "I don't want to hear it." rather wifely.  I thought the exchange was cute and I want so badly to see them together.  All Francis can say is "Goodbye Yunitsa."   She thinks about how he hasn't hugged her, taken her hand, kissed her on the cheek.  If she only knew how afraid he is of breaking down, of not letting go. It's breaking my heart.  

I also feel that d'Harcourt wouldn't explain the endearment to Philippa because he still wants to remain in Lymond's good graces.  Perhaps d'Harcourt, with this last bit of information, has pieced what he's suspected about Lymond--that his master is in love with Philippa and, that his master doesn't want it to be known.  He did catch Lymond looking at Philippa.  It must have been awkward for d'Harcourt and he had turned away reddened when Lymond saw errand boy looking and reddening in understanding.  Hearing the endearment solidifies it for Ludo.  He is too astonished to say anything else and perhaps, had there been time, since his fellows were impatient to get going, he just might have.  He strikes me as a romantic at heart.  It's probably a good thing L.H. didn't say anything.  I don't know how Lymond would have handled that. 
"'I wish to God,' said Gideon with mild exasperation, 'that you'd talk--just once--in prose like other people.'"
--Game of Kings
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