Track Editor 1.1 Update

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Track Editor 1.1 Update

Kenny
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27 Dec 2013, 13:12 #1

Hi guys,

Some of you probably already know that I actually managed to compile the source files of the original Re-Volt Track Editor quite some time ago.
But after I did some changes here and there I didn't really feel like releasing it publicly because I felt like the overall result wasn't worth a big update.

However due to some recent breakthroughs I had, that situation changed and here is the update the editor finally deserves :P

Every released patch includes all necessary files to run the editor so for installation you can safely delete all files in your old "editor" folder in the root directory of the game (don't forget to backup your tdf folder inside if you saved any tracks in the editor!).
Then simply extract all files from the zip archive in the "editor" folder and you can launch the editor from there.

I very much recommend to read through the changelog (included in every patch) if you want to know any more about the development of the patches.

Download link:
1.1a15.0301
changelog (online view)

Older releases:
1.1a15.0222
1.1a14.0117
1.1a13.1227

PS: moved previous text here to my next post
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VaiDuX461
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27 Dec 2013, 15:50 #2

Finally a new thing related to game source.
Tested out, works great. Had a random crash, when I builded first track, so better save track very often.
When I exported, I've got "couldn't export inf file", so I tried exporting again and it worked, weird. I've tried 0.75 scale setting and geez :lol:, all cars were stuck in oil, something new to try out and fun. You can now feel that there's different surfaces, which is interesting, green floor acts like grass with dreamcast theme for example.
Changing resolutions works great, just need to restart, cause it messes up. At 1680x1050 resolution UI seems to be too small, maybe it would be possible to add 2x scale when resolution is bigger?
Had minor menu frame error at top right side with that resolution.
I won't mention other problems cause they're mentioned in changelog file.

This allows lego track makers to do more possibilities to create tracks: change untextured module color, disable walls, add skymap and ofcourse themes (which is basically the same thing as just replacing tpage textures for now).

Does this obsoletes older track editor? I can't really say that for now, I haven't tested it enough, though I got a random crash once, so be careful when using it. Recommending to look at, for lego/lego extreme track makers.

Huki should definitely include this with v1.2 alpha patch, IMO.
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Kenny
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27 Dec 2013, 16:50 #3

moved from first post->

Now I don't want to go into details here what has changed and been fixed, you can read all that in the included changelog (I kind of took the 1.2 changelog as a template for the format and version numbering).

Regarding the "installation", simply extract the archive with the editor folder in the game root folder and launch the TrackEdit.exe in the editor folder.
It is safe to overwrite all existing files, however if you don't want to end up with some useless files I recommend to delete the old editor folder before extracting the new one (backup any existing .tdf files if you have some or care for them!).
If you don't want to run the editor in fullscreen or in 800x600 you'll have to manually edit the settings.ini or add the required parameters when launching for now.

A major fix that I would like to mention here though (because I think its somewhat ridiculous) is that the original Track Editor always assigned the wrong surfaces when compiling the tracks so the parts where the cars are racing are actually always MATERIAL_DEFAULT instead of of some other surfaces.

Here's a comparison (thanks to jigebren's nice blender plugin), this is the compiled ncp file from the original editor:

And this is the compiled ncp file from the updated editor (the difference ingame is noticeable but not really visible):


To those of you who might ask "Are custom modules finally possible?" the response is "Somewhat." ^_^
I made a tool that is able to extract and repackage the rtu file so it is already possible to modify the contents.
However before I release that tool there are some major things that need to happen:
- I need to remove quite a few hardcoded things from the Track Editor and make it load the information dynamically, most of the information of how the modules are linked together is still hardcoded
- I need to cleanup my tool and how it loads the files for repackaging, most of it is still a mess but the repackaging process itself works nicely
- Someone needs to create a tool that is able to display and modify .fan, .fob, .pan, .lit and .taz files (or add functionality to already existing tools) because otherwise we are only able to modify the geometry of existing modules

Regarding future versions I'll be probably mainly aiming to fix some of the known issues (see changelog) and the just mentioned things.
So if you have any suggestions they are welcome but are probably not going to be considered for now (unless they are not hard to do).

Also don't expect any frequent updates from now on, I'll be pretty busy with real life stuff at least for the next 3 months (but still going to be here every now and then) and the plans I have for the next version will probably take quite some time to do as well.

tldr;
Download link 1.1a13.1227, read at least the changelog :P
(since I don't have a server for myself, mediafire will have to do for now, however feel free to upload it somewhere else as well)

<-moved from first post


Thanks for the feedback Vaid,
Tested out, works great. Had a random crash, when I builded first track, so better save track very often.
Weird, the editor ran stable for pretty much all the time, I never experienced any crash when exporting a track (except when testing stuff of course).
Could you perhaps describe what exactly you did when the crash occured? Or was it during the compile process? In the latter case could you perhaps send me the tdf file or rebuild the track and save the tdf so I can have a look at the problem?
When I exported, I've got "couldn't export inf file", so I tried exporting again and it worked, weird.
Yeah for some reason the editor is randomly unable to create some files (it seems the mainly affected files are the .inf and .w file). In that case, as you said, its best to simply retry to compile the track, after second time it should work.
Though I thought I fixed that bug and I never got the error message you got since then, weird again. But I'll add some additional code to perhaps give some more indication why thats happening (if it happens again).
You can now feel that there's different surfaces, which is interesting, green floor acts like grass for example.
Green floor like grass? Are you talking about the dreamcast theme (which really is supposed to be grass) or the default theme? Because the latter one should actually be MATERIAL_BOUNDARY and not grass.
Changing resolutions works great, just need to restart, cause it messes up. At 1680x1050 resolution UI seems to be too small, maybe it would be possible to add 2x scale when resolution is bigger?
How did you change the resolution, did you simply scale up the window by moving the borders or did you use the settings.ini?
The latter one should give you the correct resolution, however if your monitor only goes up to that resolution, te overall resolution is being forced down a little to be able to fit the window border in as well so you'll have to use fullscreen if you want to have full resolution with properly drawn sprites.
(which is basically same thing as just replacing tpage textures for now).
Basically yes but thats only because both rtu files contain the same geometry data (with different UV mappings).
In reality the editor really unloads all the rtu data from the previous theme and reloads all the data from the new theme when changing it.
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urnemanden
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27 Dec 2013, 17:13 #4

Hey kenny, The track editor, both old and new, seem to render all textures black over WINE 1.7.9 in linux. As it is probably a bug in WINE, could you by any chance point me to which line in this log the issue might be related to? In that case I'll try report the problem to the WINE developers.

I also tried to find a workaround, but the issue exists under all circumstances I've tried so far including:
- Windowed mode
- Virtual Desktop
- Removing Window Manager decorations
- 16Bpp / FPS on/off.

It may be that this issue is also related to finding the textures, though this isn't a problem for Re-Volt.

Anyway, nice work! Thanks a lot for the efforts :)
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Kenny
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27 Dec 2013, 17:59 #5

It may be that this issue is also related to finding the textures, though this isn't a problem for Re-Volt.
If it would be unable to find/load the textures then the modules would be displayed in a gray color not black (at least on Windows) so I rather think its a displaying issue for some reason.
could you by any chance point me to which line in this log the issue might be related to? In that case I'll try report the problem to the WINE developers.
The entire log seems to be related with DirectX so I think the problematic part (if some code causes the issue in WINE) should be somewhere in the d3dframe library that the editor uses.

Yeah, I think its best to contact the WINE devs, if they cant give any useful advice with that log of yours perhaps the code from the library (from the Xbox source) can give them further indication what the problem might be, assuming that they are nice people of course :P
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VaiDuX461
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27 Dec 2013, 20:07 #6

Kenny @ Dec 27 2013, 06:50 PM wrote:Could you perhaps describe what exactly you did when the crash occured?
I've had almost finished creating track, it was about 20x17 size, normal theme. I was at the edge of building area and changing round corner size and it just crashed, I didn't saved .tdf, cause I builded it quickly, (I actually wanted to post it here...).
Kenny @ Dec 27 2013, 06:50 PM wrote:Green floor like grass? Are you talking about the dreamcast theme (which really is supposed to be grass) or the default theme? Because the latter one should actually be MATERIAL_BOUNDARY and not grass.
Yes, I meant the dreamcast theme, forgot that different .rtu holds different surfaces...
Kenny @ Dec 27 2013, 06:50 PM wrote:How did you change the resolution, did you simply scale up the window by moving the borders or did you use the settings.ini?
F2 key, forgot about settings.ini.
About the UI thing, I wanted to suggest to add automatic 2x scale to menus (spruewire, buttons and other textures) when resolution is very big. So for resolution like doubled 640x480 - 1280x960, the menus could look exactly the same size. If you don't know in the game like Minecraft there's a setting to change GUI size by scale depending on resolution you use.
Kenny @ Dec 27 2013, 06:50 PM wrote:
Me wrote:(which is basically the same thing as just replacing tpage textures for now).
Basically yes but thats only because both rtu files contain the same geometry data (with different UV mappings).
This is why I said for now ;). Was talking simple, so simple people could understand, guests watch this forum aswell.
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Kenny
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27 Dec 2013, 22:15 #7

VaiDuX461 @ Dec 27 2013, 09:07 PM wrote:
Kenny @ Dec 27 2013, 06:50 PM wrote:Could you perhaps describe what exactly you did when the crash occured?
I've had almost finished creating track, it was about 20x17 size, normal theme. I was at the edge of building area and changing round corner size and it just crashed, I didn't saved .tdf, cause I builded it quickly, (I actually wanted to post it here...).
So the editor crashed right after you hit that button to change round corner size (from what size to which one)?
Which edge of the track was it and was it on the side or in the corner?
Remember, the more information the better :P (there's also a good chance that the bug is in the original editor as well and just hasn't been figured out yet)
About the UI thing, I wanted to suggest to add automatic 2x scale to menus (spruewire, buttons and other textures) when resolution is very big. So for resolution like doubled 640x480 - 1280x960, the menus could look exactly the same size.
Hmm the thing about that is just that everything would look very pixelated when the textures are displayed twice as big (and perhaps there would be alignment problems as well).
I can try to look into it but as long as the sprites aren't available in a better resolution I'm afraid that the end result will just not look good.
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VaiDuX461
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27 Dec 2013, 23:47 #8

Kenny @ Dec 28 2013, 12:15 AM wrote:Which edge of the track was it and was it on the side or in the corner?
On the side. I also remember I "bashed" Z and X buttons (to change module types) quickly (with same round corner module) and then about that point it crashed. Tried reproduce it on empty track, nothing.
Maybe it crashed due some polygon, memory limit, cause my track was quite big. You added walls to show on sides though. Can't tell if that happened on old TE.
Kenny @ Dec 28 2013, 12:15 AM wrote:Hmm the thing about that is just that everything would look very pixelated when the textures are displayed twice as big (and perhaps there would be alignment problems as well).
How about putting bilinear filtering in there then?
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Kenny
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28 Dec 2013, 10:38 #9

VaiDuX461 @ Dec 28 2013, 12:47 AM wrote: Maybe it crashed due some polygon, memory limit, cause my track was quite big. You added walls to show on sides though. Can't tell if that happened on old TE.
I doubt that, the track editor should have no problems displaying a track even if it is filled with placed modules (and the additional polygons from the walls are rather marginal).

I rather think the problem has something to do with the fact that the round corner occupies more module blocks than one and perhaps you triggered a specific situation or were in a specific spot when changing its size that caused the editor to crash.
But unless we can't reproduce it again, there's not a big chance of fixing it.

I tried myself to use the module in specific places and changing its size but everything worked properly.
How about putting bilinear filtering in there then?
As I said, I'll look into it :P
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Kenny
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24 Jan 2014, 20:05 #10

Hey guys, here's a new update 14.0117, changes are all written in the included changelog.

Also please let me know if I should continue posting updates on both here and on RVL or only keep everything in one forum.
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Phantom
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25 Jan 2014, 00:09 #11

The readers of ORP and RVL are sometimes different people who don't visit the other forum for different reasons. You should keep posting in both places.

Nice update!
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VaiDuX461
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25 Jan 2014, 12:55 #12

Update works great. I recommend supporting both forums.
Finally found out why I crashed (and pretty often) when building track.
YT Video
At later part of video I show with palette window, but it seems recording soft doesn't capture flickering, so it looks like nothing is wrong.

I'm wondering about palette window. The full screen mode in TE acts very strange. For some reason F2 config window shows everytime, but palette isn't. Main app also acts like window, you can still move frame if you know where is your mouse.

Also, noticed that it tries to update background color even if is same or canceled in palette dialog.
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Kenny
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25 Jan 2014, 14:11 #13

Thanks, that video was very helpful ;)

I was able to reproduce the crash and I should be able to fix it for the next update as well.
Btw may I ask how you move around in the editor? Because it sounds like you are holding the keys pressed which should only be recognized as one movement, not multiple :P

I'll also look into adding a resolution option into the config menu which will make the F2 window obsolete.
However as for the displaying problems with the Color Dialog (or a possible replacement so we can do everything in fullscreen), I'm not really sure how to deal with that yet. Maybe something will come up, until then I keep it on my "Known issues" list :P

And last but not least the window resize:
I don't think it'll be easily possible to make the sprites resize properly with a changed window size. So I'll probably just make the window unresizeable (unless you insist on keeping that feature but then you'll also have to live with that problem for now).
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VaiDuX461
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25 Jan 2014, 15:39 #14

Kenny @ Jan 25 2014, 04:11 PM wrote:how you move around in the editor? Because it sounds like you are holding the keys pressed which should only be recognized as one movement, not multiple :P
Quick fingers :lol:. This is how I usually use arrow keys and play games.

Disabling resize on window would probably be a good idea, it's pretty crappy when you do that.
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Kenny
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25 Jan 2014, 20:34 #15

VaiDuX461 @ Jan 25 2014, 04:39 PM wrote: Quick fingers :lol:. This is how I usually use arrow keys and play games.
lol? My fingers would get tired after 60 seconds already :lol:

But I guess my keyboard is also not really suited for rapid typing.
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Phantom
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25 Jan 2014, 21:28 #16

He just taps the keys at a non-sense speed.
This is how we get ridiculous times at RVR.

I'm in love with this Editor.
Seeing the Track Editor included in 0916 as the v1.1 improvement in comparison to the original Editor, I think this one is actually the v1.2 Editor. Why did you name it 1.1?
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Kenny
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25 Jan 2014, 23:21 #17

I'm not sure myself why :P

I see them as two different programs where the editor is only an addition to the game, nothing more than a tool.
And considering that the Track Editor never had any version numbering (neither in the executable nor in the changelog) I figured I would start off labeling the new version as 1.1

Besides, if you were to label the programs after their official released patches then Re-Volt would be at 1.3 now and not 1.2 (1.1 for 0916 patch, 1.2 for 1207 patch and 1.3 for afterwards).
The fact that it is not is simply because there is a version number in the game that labels it as such.

Plus I wanted to avoid name confusion with the "1.2 patches".
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Phantom
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26 Jan 2014, 03:47 #18

I think this Track Editor should be someday included in the 1.2 Patch that is why the versions should coincide.

Oh, and since you mentioned Re-Volt wouldn't be 1.3 nowadays because both 0916 and 1207 were labeled as 1.10 and both included the updated Editor (1.1). :)

This is just as a suggestion anyway.
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Kenny
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26 Jan 2014, 08:47 #19

Phantom @ Jan 26 2014, 04:47 AM wrote: Oh, and since you mentioned Re-Volt wouldn't be 1.3 nowadays because both 0916 and 1207 were labeled as 1.10 and both included the updated Editor (1.1). :)
Thats what I said.

Also afaik only the 0916 patch included the Track Editor update, the 1207 patch wasn't a "full" patch meaning that it didn't include previous updates (which was basically only the editor anyway).
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Phantom
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14 Mar 2014, 16:55 #20

Kenny will be possible to add an option to import files such as .m or .prm?

I think the best thing that can happen to this Editor is that it comes with new modules or at least it lets you import models made in blender for example.
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Kenny
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15 Mar 2014, 10:25 #21

I haven't really thought about dynamically loading prm/m files into the editor so I'm not sure if it would be possible, at least with the way the Track Editor works.
However if you intend to use these prm/m files as modules then you'll need additional information anyway like Trackzones, AI nodes and POS nodes (optionally lights and objects too), otherwise they could only be used as decoration in the track.

What I thought about though is that users will create their own rtu files (themes) instead. The way that would work is that someone creates all the necessary geometry data for all the modules in a 3D modeling program, export it as prm/m and add the additional info to the modules.

Unfortunately there is still no tool available that lets you create/modify the AI node and POS node information outside the game but everything else can be done with jigebrens blender plugin already.

However until that is possible I also need to remove a lot of hardcoded module information from the editor and make it load dynamically instead.
And in order to do that I'll also need to modify/update the rtu file structure to contain that extra information so unfortunately it'll definitely take some time before the next update arrives (the fact that I'm pretty busy in rl right now doesn't help much either) ;)
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Phantom
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15 Mar 2014, 16:35 #22

I only mean as decoration. It's a start. :)

It would be awesome to incorporate makeitgood functionalities to manipulate .prm and .m files into the Track Editor for easier use of new track makers that can't learn makeitgood properly and also for cassual players to make better tracks.
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nevermind
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30 Jul 2014, 23:16 #23

This Track Editor looks absolutely great!

Hm, am I the only one who has ever noticed that help is not shown? Original Track Editor used to show key functions by pressing F1. In fact, About window (shown by pressing F5) tells you F1 shows the help, but nothing happens for me.
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Kenny
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31 Jul 2014, 10:26 #24

Hi, the help menu is still present and can be accessed over F1.

However the only exception for that is the help menu for the module placing screen which is not available due to a bug that happened after I added the config menu.

I fixed it now and it will be included in the next version so thanks for the report :)
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08 Aug 2014, 15:31 #25

I have found two more issues.

First: I faced this. A block always disappears after leaving it (it reappears when you come back to it). I do not know the right conditions for this to happen, it has happened to me just in one block in the only track I have tried to do with this editor so far; you may ask me for the track if you want. This has not ever happened to me in the more than 250 (lol!) custom RV tracks I have ever made with the old Track Editor, so it is very unlikely to be a bug from the original one.

Second: My track has this sort of roundabout right before the start grid. When any car turns right somehow instead of passing through the crossroad, it gets lost. Repositioning puts the car in the crossroad and facing to the start grid, but it still has to go through the sort of roundabout, so if the player does not notice it, it won't be able to finish the race. AI cars do always go straight ahead, so they are not able to finish. I have not tried this before, so I do not know if this happened in the old Track Editor.
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Kenny
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08 Aug 2014, 23:04 #26

First: Weird, I have never experienced something like this myself so yeah, the compiled track and its .tdf file would definitely help giving more insight to this problem, you can either post a link here or send me a PM.

Second: I was able to reproduce the reposition issue and will look into it when I get the time. As for the AI, did you just mention it to give an example for this issue (where they would drive the wrong way in case they crashed at that part and had to reposition at that spot) or did you mean something different?

Also I saw you only used the dreamcast theme in your pictures, did you check if you get the first issue with the default theme as well?
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09 Aug 2014, 01:06 #27

First: You will get a PM with .tdf file and the compiled track. This issue did not happen when compiling with the default theme, and happened again when compiling again in DC theme.

Second: AI example was necessary because an AI car may get unable to end the race because of that issue. In fact it has happened twice in four races for me. The track is the same, so you may test it in the track itself.
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Kenny
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10 Aug 2014, 09:13 #28

Alright, I had a look at both problems and here are the results:

The second one is due to a "bug" in the track zone optimization that I added (its not really a bug but since the track zones should be placed in a certain way I guess you could view it as one).
Anyway, I'm pretty sure I fixed it for now and it will be included in the next version as well. For the time being, instead of doing the track section like this

Code: Select all

  &#124;
++--
++
you could do it like this to fix the problem (if that makes sense to you, I dont want to go through the trouble of uploading an image now :P)

Code: Select all

  &#124;
++--
&#124;&#124;
++
The first one however is a different thing.
For starters, it actually happens with the default theme as well, you just have to disable the walls to get the same result (and vice versa, if you enable the walls in the DC theme you don't get the problem anymore).
That is probably also the reason why you never experienced it with the original editor, since that option for the walls wasn't there.

It doesn't seem to be a geometry issue either, otherwise you could easily reproduce it which is not the case. So far it only happens with your track layout though it doesnt seem to be module related since other modules at that location show the same effect.
Unfortunately I can only say that at this point I have no clue what causes it, as far as I know it could even be a game bug.
You can reduce the effect by not placing the modules there at the very end of the level but it'll still be noticable.
I guess I can do a little bit more testing to figure out why this happens but I'm not sure if I'll be able to fix it :(

edit: Further testing has revealed that the same issue happens in the actual dreamcast version as well:
So not only is this an issue of the original version, it also seems like its a game issue. At least I cant think of a way to fix this from within the Track Editor :P
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nevermind
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10 Aug 2014, 13:57 #29

I think I will keep my track ending this way

Code: Select all

 &nbsp;&#9474;
&#9484;&#9532;&#9472;&#9472;
&#9492;&#9496;
(&#9484;&#9488;&#9492;&#9496;&#9500;&#9508;&#9516;&#9524;&#9532;&#9472;&#9474; works way better than +-)
and just wait for the new version, as I do not like that temporary solution.


[quote=""Kenny""]You can reduce the effect by not placing the modules there at the very end of the level but it'll still be noticable.[/quote]Right after reading this I tried to increase track horizontal size in Adjust. And I solved it completely (at least for a standard car camera) after increasing it by two steps :D
The track size in disk grew a little bit, but it is worth.

It is quite interesting the fact that this happened in DC version lol
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12 Aug 2014, 10:52 #30

nevermind @ Aug 10 2014, 02:57 PM wrote: and just wait for the new version, as I do not like that temporary solution.
Alright, just know that it might take a while until the next release since I'm in the process of changing some other stuff in the code and I have no idea at this point when it will be finished (not to mention that real life stuff gets often enough in the way).
Right after reading this I tried to increase track horizontal size in Adjust. And I solved it completely (at least for a standard car camera) after increasing it by two steps biggrin.gif
Yeah but thats obviously only a workaround (which is not practical to implement where the editor would automatically add 2 steps on the sides).

Btw I was able to build another layout where the issue occurs, just make a roundabout track that goes along the top right edge in the editor, when you drive at that corner the same issue should occur (even more extreme than in your track).
Its weird that it just happens in that one corner but as long as I don't know what causes it, it will remain a mystery to me as well.

And it also happened in the N64 version where the theme is the same as the PC one but without walls.
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03 Sep 2014, 18:35 #31

I found another issue. When exporting a x0.75 track and choosing Clockwork Carnage, you may find this.

The grid is somehow displaced. Some CPU clockworks are moved so they do not hit the wall. The player is not moved as it does not hit any wall, but the wall is right in front of the player.

Notice that he block before the start grid is a crossroad (it is a track from the same tdf I had sent you, lol). I guess it does only happen if it is a crossroad o a straight corner to the right.
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03 Sep 2014, 22:08 #32

Unfortunately I don't think this is fixable for the general case (I was actually hoping that any starting grid wouldn't have a problem with 0.75 scale but I guess this is the exception).

Because if you try to do a standard race with 12 cars, you'll be at the border of the left side and the front car is at the border of the start module so any modification to a position that is slightly more left/up will mess up this case as well.

Though the spawn positions are generally a bit weird and not really consistent over different amount of cars, not sure why that is the case.
Either way I don't think a hacked solution in the Track Editor would be the solution to this problem (hacked because coding wise everything should be fine in the editor).

If you want to (temporarily) fix it to work with Clockwork Mode or a specific amount of cars where you dont get spawned on the total left side, you can slightly increase the STARTPOS x and z values in the level's .inf file (z is y axis ingame).
100 unit steps should show some good results, anything lower is fine tuning (maybe there's even a value that works for all cases but as I said, I would like to avoid such a "solution").
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10 Sep 2014, 02:49 #33

You're on TV.

[youtube][/youtube]
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11 Sep 2014, 10:55 #34

Its good to see someone showing off the editor though what is shown is not really what I hoped for. I set the limit for the scale in the editor for a reason, manual overrides can be done but are not supported and should not be commonly used.

Also in its current state the editor doesn't really have features that can be shown, the main improvements over the original are stability, higher resolutions and proper surface assignment in the tracks.

Though I'm hoping that future releases will have more stuff that can (and should) be shown/explained in a video, its just not going as fast as I anticipated (not to mention that my motivation is rather low at the moment).
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11 Sep 2014, 16:12 #35

Well, early kudos is also kudos :)
All my stuff is available here and there, and all my videos are available there.
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14 Sep 2014, 15:40 #36

I'd like to make a feature request.

The current Track Editor rejects your track when it has something like this:


It's a jump onto a perpendicular straight block. The Track Editor could handle this by supposing that the block after the jump is one of the four straight corner with the same elevation (the one which creates a loop) and chose the AI nodes, zones, etc, as if it was a straight corner:


I know that it is possible to actually choose that straight corner. But some cool things like this are not possible:


If the Track Editor managed to guess what is going on, something like this would let the player to create a proper track in both normal and reverse modes.
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14 Sep 2014, 21:07 #37

It's an interesting suggestion but I'm afraid it won't be possible to add a feature like that (without some major code rewriting/additions).

For one I would like to keep the modules as generic as possible for the editor so custom themes hopefully won't be a big hassle to create in the future (which I am ultimately aiming for).
Therefore a solution like you suggested with "just telling the editor to assume the module as a corner in this case" obviously wouldn't be such a good idea.

The other major thing is the problem that is actually displayed in your last picture. The track flow is very ambigous there, how is the editor supposed to know which way is correct?
Unless you manually specify it which, as I said, would require some major modifications/additions in the code, like adding a new menu with options for this specific module, adding various properties for the user to specifiy the way and using these properties to compile the track correctly (not to mention the countless safety checks for various things).

I mean theoratically you could also assume this case as a 2-way split up but then there are again two issues:
1) in its current state the editor doesn't support split up ways (if you want I can explain in greater detail why but not in this post)
2) like your picture shows, a split up can easily end up in an endless loop. though considering the fact that I want to add support for split ways some day anyway I guess I'll need to think about a solution for that :P
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16 Sep 2014, 05:33 #38

What about adding native gluing support? and possibly wall-less pieces (floating) and maybe additions to world and something like that
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16 Sep 2014, 14:08 #39

I'm not quite sure what you mean with native gluing support, if you're talking about RV Glue functionality being somehow included in the editor then you need to realize that its not as easy as that.

Because RV Glue assumes you are after-editing a fully compiled track where the whole purpose of the Track editor is to work with an extremely simplified interface/track format that only gets compiled into a full featured track as the final step.
But besides that, I have no idea how a useful interface for the glue functionality could look like (not to mention that any more complex implementation would break the simplicity of the default interface) though I'm of course open to suggestions.

As for the wall-less pieces, I decided not to do such a thing when I was adding the "environment" option, simply because the end result would look horrible and there is no reason to make the tracks look like that on purpose (except maybe when you want to edit them in a 3D modeling program afterwards), heres a rough example of how it looks -> http://snag.gy/u9U82.jpg

And last but not least the additions to world, thats something I would like to see as well but its really low priority for me right now and I haven't figured out a good way yet to integrate such a feature so it would work with the current interface/controls.
Besides that, I'm not sure if 3D modeling programs or even the MAKEITGOOD mode would provide a more efficient or perhaps even easier way to do this but again, I'm open for suggestions/feedback.
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17 Sep 2014, 22:43 #40

Kenny @ Sep 16 2014, 11:08 AM wrote:I'm not quite sure what you mean with native gluing support, if you're talking about RV Glue functionality being somehow included in the editor then you need to realize that its not as easy as that.

Because RV Glue assumes you are after-editing a fully compiled track where the whole purpose of the Track editor is to work with an extremely simplified interface/track format that only gets compiled into a full featured track as the final step.
But besides that, I have no idea how a useful interface for the glue functionality could look like (not to mention that any more complex implementation would break the simplicity of the default interface) though I'm of course open to suggestions.
Yes, I'm talking about RVGlue, but in this case im talking about new pieces and something like warping pieces on top of another one, and maybe a straight with bridge "theme" for example, or uncommon bridges. Maybe bring that via a shortcut, and probably soon you'll find a way to make it simpler :)

The pieces have walls, i noticed that looking them from down clearly states that they are pieces just like a puzzle, also how come JUMP module is one way? (i was unable to compile normal, and when i inverted it i was able to compile normal but not reverse)

Remember how you open the W with trackeditor + RVGlue? I'm talking about something like that, I know its after-made editing but it could be added to standard Track Editor interface, also what about a setting for shadows? (only legimate lego pieces are shadowed (this can be easily seen in Lava Pit by Dave-o-rama (Custom pieces are shadowless on the edges (no vertex?)))
Kenny @ Sep 16 2014, 11:08 AM wrote:As for the wall-less pieces, I decided not to do such a thing when I was adding the "environment" option, simply because the end result would look horrible and there is no reason to make the tracks look like that on purpose (except maybe when you want to edit them in a 3D modeling program afterwards), heres a rough example of how it looks -> http://snag.gy/u9U82.jpg

And last but not least the additions to world, thats something I would like to see as well but its really low priority for me right now and I haven't figured out a good way yet to integrate such a feature so it would work with the current interface/controls.
Besides that, I'm not sure if 3D modeling programs or even the MAKEITGOOD mode would provide a more efficient or perhaps even easier way to do this but again, I'm open for suggestions/feedback.
The picture you took is the pipe walls being invisible aka pure black :&#124; Anyone can do that..

I also want to note that the pickups are way too low, lower than regular clone pickups.



This is a slideshow of a sample track with many tweaks (no makeitgood but TE + INF)
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17 Sep 2014, 23:18 #41

I guess abc wants something like RC Revenge Pro track editor modules. They do have walls but they don't take all the space from its position to the floor, and it is possible to use any two modules (or even more) at the same place, as long as there is enough space in between.


The picture you showed features no walls at all, that's not what abc meant.

In fact, some other RC Revenge Pro features would be nice in Re-Volt Track Editor, such as round ascending/descending corners.


And abc is right about pickups: in DC theme, they are under the floor. It is especially noticeable at x0.75 tracks:
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18 Sep 2014, 11:48 #42

Abc wrote:Yes, I'm talking about RVGlue, but in this case im talking about new pieces and something like warping pieces on top of another one, and maybe a straight with bridge "theme" for example, or uncommon bridges. Maybe bring that via a shortcut, and probably soon you'll find a way to make it simpler
If its just that then I suggest you wait until custom themes can be created because this kind of functionality should become available with that (at least assuming everything goes the way I'm planning to).
Though you will only be able to place modules over each other that get marked as "floating" and that don't intersect each other (similar to how RC Revenge does it) because it would otherwise pretty much break the ability for the editor to compile valid tracks.
Abc wrote:also how come JUMP module is one way? (i was unable to compile normal, and when i inverted it i was able to compile normal but not reverse)
It's supposed to be like that, the JUMP module is there to mark a "jump" (like the name implies), a vertical gap in the track that you can't race backwards.
Therefore if you place it backwards in a track, the editor automatically assumes that this track piece can't be crossed (this is kind of mentioned in the changelog for the reversed track feature).
I know the whole module itself is kind of useless and boring but I'm not the one who added it in the first place :P
Abc wrote:Remember how you open the W with trackeditor + RVGlue? I'm talking about something like that, I know its after-made editing but it could be added to standard Track Editor interface
The track editor never opens a .w file (except for writing into one in the compile process) where RVGlue only relies on fully compiled track files and user-written scripts.
So how would you suggest to add something like that to "standard Track Editor interface" in an useful way? Because everything I can think of would make things only more complicated, not only for the user to access and control but also to add and maintain in the code.
Plus if you only want the previously mentioned feature then RV Glue wouldn't be required for that anyway (assuming I can implement custom themes like I have it in mind, though that will certainly take some time to do).
Abc wrote:also what about a setting for shadows? (only legimate lego pieces are shadowed (this can be easily seen in Lava Pit by Dave-o-rama (Custom pieces are shadowless on the edges (no vertex?)))
That looks more like an issue in RV Glue to me.
Abc wrote:I also want to note that the pickups are way too low, lower than regular clone pickups.
Yes, beside the fact that quite a few modules have badly placed pickups which I'm planning to fix as well at a later point in time (specifically the pipe corner modules), this "pickups-in-ground" issue can't really be resolved without some hacks in the code (which I would like to avoid) if you export the track in smaller/bigger sizes.
Because once you scale a whole module down/up, the pickup position gets scaled along with it as well (so far so good), but obviously the pickup model itself doesn't get scaled along with it, it's always the same size in the game.
Therefore it has to get to a point where the position is too low/high for the pickup model to be displayed "correctly" ingame, if you scale the track large enough it even gets to a point where the pickups are too high in the air for the cars to reach them (part of the reason why I kept the scale limit at 2.0).
nevermind wrote:In fact, some other RC Revenge Pro features would be nice in Re-Volt Track Editor, such as round ascending/descending corners.
I don't know how they did it in RC Revenge but I assume its done similar to Re-Volts editor, meaning every variation of every module is stored seperately, nothing is done dynamic.
In which case I again suggest to wait for custom theme support, then it should be (easily) possible to add corners like that.
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18 Sep 2014, 15:02 #43

Thanks nevermind, i didnt know about that game lol, yes, the track "sample" i did was with 0.75. (floorless and roomless). Kenny, yes pretty much what nevermind said, and i guess it wont be a problem for the compiler. (adjust track zones accordingly and such (maybe dont make then excessively bigger?)
Multiple module placing was something that was always missing from TE, RVGlue makes us able to do such thing. its perfectly possible but too hacky. (yes, scripting hacks)
Cross and bridges are the only ways which is pretty unsatisfying. go figure how many people find lego/te tracks so unsatisfying.
To prove the "piece" part you have to enable TVTIME and look the track from below with free cam.

ps: te seems pretty unsatisfying on the overall, maybe do something similar to RC Revenge AND trackmania (yeah, its a lot more modern but shows what i meant, especially the stadium theme, go look videos) Seeing how other editors do it may give you ideas how to implement this on TE without losing the spirit of it.

ps2: i havent read the changelog, where is it? Sorry for that.
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11 Feb 2015, 14:26 #44

Here is a suggestion: What about letting the Track Editor to load a .tdf file by command line? You know, making TE to load a file by adding its name or complete path in the command line. That would let the user load a file in TE just by dragging the .tdf into the track editor (or its link), among other interesting possibilities.

ps2: i havent read the changelog, where is it? Sorry for that.
Just download the file (or check your editor folder if you have already downloaded it). Changelog is in its very root.

Also, why isn't the last version link in the first post?
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11 Feb 2015, 17:07 #45

nevermind @ Feb 11 2015, 03:26 PM wrote: Here is a suggestion: What about letting the Track Editor to load a .tdf file by command line?
Its certainly doable but I'm not sure if it would be practical to use. I mean whether you browse to the file manually in the explorer or load it from within the editor doesn't really make a difference (but I guess I'll add it to my todo list).
Also, why isn't the last version link in the first post?
I planned to overhaul the first post (in both RVL and ORP) once I was ready to release the next version (remove obsolete text, add a proper description, etc), unfortunately that didn't happen so far but perhaps I can tinker something together for an update soon, even if it won't include as much as I had planned :P
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12 Feb 2015, 19:35 #46

Do you remember the clockwork grid issue in x0.75 tracks? I thought nothing would happen if the previous block was different from a crossroad or a straight corner to the right. Actually, that was not the worst thing it could happen: check this video.

I know that the issue is the same, I just wanted to add some extra information.





EDIT: I have just realized that the characters '#' (ASCII 35) and '~' (ASCII 127) are shown in the track editor as '£' and ' " ' (there are two ' " ' characters: the real one, which is right before the '#' that shows as '£' and the '~', which is at the very end of the characters list), as spruefont.bmp shows them that way. When compiling a track with any of those characters, they properly show as '#' and '~'.

I am aware that this is a stupid issue and it is hard to correct it well (I mean, in a way that the missing characters look similar to the others), but... I noticed it and I had to post it, lol.
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16 Feb 2015, 21:03 #47

nevermind @ 12 Feb 2015, 08:35 PM wrote: EDIT: I have just realized that the characters '#' (ASCII 35) and '~' (ASCII 127) are shown in the track editor as '£' and ' " ' (there are two ' " ' characters: the real one, which is right before the '#' that shows as '£' and the '~', which is at the very end of the characters list), as spruefont.bmp shows them that way. When compiling a track with any of those characters, they properly show as '#' and '~'.

I am aware that this is a stupid issue and it is hard to correct it well (I mean, in a way that the missing characters look similar to the others), but... I noticed it and I had to post it, lol.
Is that not dependant on the region/language your keyboard is set up for ?
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16 Feb 2015, 21:16 #48

Manmountain @ 16 Feb 2015, 10:03 PM wrote:Is that not dependant on the region/language your keyboard is set up for ?
The keyboard has nothing to do with this; I am talking about the characters displayed in TE and the characters saved in the compiled track (which are correctly read by RV). I do not mean that typing '#' using the keyboard writes '£' in TE; I mean choosing the character shown as '£' in TE saves the character '#'.

In fact, I am not able to type any special character in TE using my keyboard, despite the fact that they have a special icon in spruefont.bmp.
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16 Feb 2015, 21:25 #49

Is it the 'spruefont.bmp' layout itself, does that need editing maybe ?
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16 Feb 2015, 21:55 #50

Yes, that layout is exactly the problem and editing the file is the solution.
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