Splitscreen, is it a valid multiplayer game?

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Splitscreen, is it a valid multiplayer game?

Phantom
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30 Aug 2013, 08:11 AM #1

Hi there, I wanted to make a poll out of this but -someone- removed the option for creating polls in this section. :rolleyes:

Anyways, we are here to discuss if times made on Splitscreen deserve to be on rankings or not.

As most of you know, ReVoltRace is the rankings' site of our community, historically it allowed users to upload their times made under the following rule:

Code: Select all

Times are only valid with multiplayer races with a minimum of 2 players.
But since Re-Volt 1.2 introduced Splitscreen, few people have uploaded times made on this mode:





Our admins never had to deal with this before, so these times are now in stand-by waiting to be approved or rejected. We need valid arguments to take a decison. Comments at the moment are:
Kispete: I didn't validate yet, cause I don't know that is this a confirmed race mode or not
Skarma: I'm not 100% sure, techically it is inside the rules (if you take it word for word) but I have the feeling if I approve them, some people won't be happy about it.
mmudshark: That isn't really an online race with others. Also it's very easy to post cheat times, although I know he didn't do that.
I sent Huki a PM about this so we can have a more accurate voice about this.

What is your opinion about Splitscreen being a valid way of making times in multiplayer?
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
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Balint12
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30 Aug 2013, 08:48 AM #2

I don't think it should be valid, because it makes cheating even easier.
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Kipy
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30 Aug 2013, 10:26 AM #3

Balint12 @ Aug 30 2013, 09:48 AM wrote: I don't think it should be valid, because it makes cheating even easier.
Agree, better that every1 race through the RVHouse..
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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mmudshark
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30 Aug 2013, 08:08 PM #4

I do not think those times should be counted. If someone is going to race offline they can just keep track of their times for their own amusement. If they want times to be "official" they can race online with others rather than just racing against one person at home.

eta: "I sent Huki a PM about this so we can have a more accurate voice about this."
Why would Huki have a more accurate voice on a RevoltRace competition Phantom?
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Balint12
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31 Aug 2013, 07:29 AM #5

I don't understand the thing with Huki either.
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Phantom
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31 Aug 2013, 11:43 AM #6

mmudshark @ Aug 30 2013, 05:08 PM wrote: Why would Huki have a more accurate voice on a RevoltRace competition Phantom?
1. Because this is not just a ReVoltRace competition problem mmud.
As the title in my post says in exact words, my main interest is to know if this is a valid multiplayer game or not. It is a general re-volt question and not only about any ranking site in particular (RVR). And because this race mode was introduced by the 1.2 patch; therefore the 1.2 developers are the only ones in the condition to confirm this.

2. Because the first argument thrown was "I didn't validate yet, cause I don't know that this is a confirmed race mode or not".

3. Because the other argument thrown here was about the 'cheating'. Which from my point of view it is just a myth; and.. in case this is possible, it would be as dangerous as any other online race. Again, Huki will know about this more than anyone of us can guess.

4. Simply because deleting the pictures of go_away or any other without enough valid arguments would just be a way of bitching in my opinion.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
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Balint12
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31 Aug 2013, 02:04 PM #7

@Phantom's 1.
What do you mean by valid multiplayer game? I can't imagine any other situation, where it matters if it is a valid multiplayer game, other than a ranking, or some sort of systematic racing that demands multiplayer games to be played. In this case, every system can decide whether it accepts spiltscreen as valid multiplayer or not. Therefore I don't think the 1.2 developers should say if it is valid or not.

@Phantom's 3.
Well, I think Huki can only say, if a cheat like SADIST works in splitscreen mode (which obviously has nothing to do with RVR's system, as it only accepts no-pickup races), or if the CHT icon is visible. Yes, it would be good to know these, but anyone can test it in 5 minutes, who is interested in it, and again, I don't think these affect RVR in any way.

@Phantom's 4.
If RVR decides not to accept splitscreen times, it is a valid argument to delete his pictures.
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Kipy
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31 Aug 2013, 02:18 PM #8

My godness..
Guys, I'll contact with Irck soon, so please be patient!
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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Phantom
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31 Aug 2013, 04:49 PM #9

What I meant by a 'valid' game is if splitscreen can be considered multiplayer or not.
If splitscreen can't be considered multiplayer then you do_have_an_argument on your side.
Is it? Is it not? That is what I want to know.

And I'm completely disagreeing with the last part of your statement balint. A desition like this taken "just because RVR says so" without a valid argument would only show irresponsability from the admins. On the other hand, if there is an important reason, the desition is justified and the community will respect the rule.

The desition itself "Just because RVR says so" is never a valid argument on its own.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
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Balint12
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31 Aug 2013, 05:33 PM #10

Well... splitscreen IS multiplayer, that's beyond doubt. If you wanted to ask this from Huki, you already got his answer, when Huki placed the splitscreen under the multi-player menu.

Before you started quoting RVR's rules, I'd point out, that those rules had been made before the very idea of splitscreen, so now RVR has to decide whether splitscreen times are accepted.
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Skarma
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31 Aug 2013, 07:22 PM #11

Then allow me to simplify the matter.

Should RVR accept times that were taken in a splitscreen multiplayer race?

Discuss...
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Kipy
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31 Aug 2013, 10:31 PM #12

Skarma @ Aug 31 2013, 08:22 PM wrote: Then allow me to simplify the matter.

Should RVR accept times that were taken in a splitscreen multiplayer race?

Discuss...
I won't confirm them, I decided in this way, do what u want <_<
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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arto
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1 Sep 2013, 06:13 AM #13

Skarma @ Aug 31 2013, 08:22 PM wrote: Then allow me to simplify the matter.

Should RVR accept times that were taken in a splitscreen multiplayer race?

Discuss...
No.
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Balint12
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1 Sep 2013, 08:17 AM #14

No, here too
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Dolo
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2 Sep 2013, 04:59 PM #15

2 players with rvhouse or on splitscreen it's the same thing, it's "multiplayer"...
If u want to cheat, u can do it with rvhouse or on splitcreen, it's not the problem, it's "multiplayer", that's all.
And About RVR, they should fix the b3l with 3-4 players minimum, with 2 players it's multi but it's not really a race...
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Balint12
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2 Sep 2013, 05:45 PM #16

I don't think it should be 3-4 players minimum, because it's hard to find people nowadays who are willing to play b3l/b4l. I'm not one of them either.
Anyway, this topic is not about this..
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RafSTer
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2 Sep 2013, 07:07 PM #17

No
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Kipy
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2 Sep 2013, 07:13 PM #18

Guys, I delete this results now, cuz it's useless to validate them.. it was on the earlier month tracks race <_<
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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Skarma
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2 Sep 2013, 10:27 PM #19

They still would have appeared in last months tracks...
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JaBBier
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2 Sep 2013, 10:33 PM #20

I think that if u read the next rule in B3L race, it says:

How can you post a time?
Join or host a multi-player race (in RVHouse).


I think it's very clear, undoubtedly, but would be nice that in B3L help it was written by the admin.

Only a noob opinion.
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Phantom
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3 Sep 2013, 02:32 AM #21

@Jabbi: That belongs to the Help section.

It doesn't imply a rule because there is no way to know if a a race was made in the House or GameRanger, or GameSpy, or any other lobby launcher. And there are many old times made in gameranger anyways. It was written by ben years ago because he didn't know the existence of other lobby launchers, it's just a way to promote rv house and help the new player.

Anyway, going back to the topic, i have to say that even if I think that the pictures are technically inside the rules and they don't harm anyone, I can't be blind when seeing a general agreement that the people don't want those times in the ranking for their personal reasons.

Besides, go_away had enough time to defend himself if he wanted to say anything. So.. I'll vote as well for a No, hoping that our vote will only benefit the system.

Nothing else to say.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
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JaBBier
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3 Sep 2013, 10:39 AM #22



"In an online miltiplayer race"
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VaiDuX461
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3 Sep 2013, 11:27 AM #23

Split-screen isn't online mode and RVR only accepts online races, so times made by playing split-screen doesn't count.
Multiplayer can have offline and online modes.
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Balint12
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3 Sep 2013, 12:12 PM #24

By the way, quoting the rules isn't so meaningful, as there are 3 different rules on the site. One says that it has to be multiplayer (and splitscreen IS multiplayer). One says that it has to be online multiplayer (which splitscreen is obviously not), and one says that it has to be multiplayer via RVHouse. So I don't think it is self explanatory what the actual rule is, that's why we are discussing it here.

I would totally disagree with the rule, that it has to be played via RVHouse, because we know how RVHouse is... some people just can't make it work.

As Dolo said, it's not too hard to cheat via RVHouse either, but I think it's harder to play against yourself (or someone who won't give you up) on RVHouse, than in splitscreen mode.

My opinion is that online multiplayer races should be accepted, whehter they are played on RVHouse or somewhere else.
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JaBBier
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3 Sep 2013, 12:46 PM #25

The most useful would be to make a poll, cuz if erveryone gives his opinion, that discussion will never fisnish...

I think the only valid times should be in online mode (RVHouse, Gameranger, Hamachi...)
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Kipy
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3 Sep 2013, 03:44 PM #26

Anyway I won't validate results like this.. it depends on you, Skarma that what will you do with them..
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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Dolo
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3 Sep 2013, 04:47 PM #27

Multi is MULTI, online or offline, IT'S MULTI !!
It's easy to understand !!
And there are more chance to have bug time in online races than offline races...
So u should validate GO_AWAY's results...
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Balint12
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3 Sep 2013, 06:27 PM #28

Yes Dolo, we know multi is multi, and we also know that splitscreen is multi. You speak like the RVR rules clearly said that multi (whether it's online or offline) is accepted, but that's not the case, the rules are not clear. We accpet that you have your opinion, you should accept that we have ours too.

@Jabbi: Phantom told in his first post, that it's not possible to make polls in this topic, but yeah, it would be good.
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Dolo
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3 Sep 2013, 07:33 PM #29

The rules are clear for the B3L & B4L...

The best lap rules

Times are only valid in 3 or 4 lap races.
Times are only valid in picks-off races.
Times are only valid with Toyeca stock car.
Times are only valid when there is a screenshot included.
Times are only valid with multiplayer races with a minimum of 2 players.

For months, they should delete the time ranking anyway...
Since that kipy and his band are racing like geeks, the sessions are dull and useless...

And for the question : Splitscreen, is it a valid multiplayer game?, Yes, of course !
(No bug time because it's local, and it's more hard to make good times)
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JaBBier
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3 Sep 2013, 10:16 PM #30

Dolo, I'm here since march and i've never heard a constructive criticism from you, always crying and complaining about everything and everybody.

You should grow and mature once and for all. I respect all opinions and contributions, but not the crying from an always-criyng person.
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Kipy
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3 Sep 2013, 10:24 PM #31

Dolo @ Sep 3 2013, 08:33 PM wrote: The rules are clear for the B3L & B4L...

The best lap rules

    Times are only valid in 3 or 4 lap races.
    Times are only valid in picks-off races.
    Times are only valid with Toyeca stock car.
    Times are only valid when there is a screenshot included.
    Times are only valid with multiplayer races with a minimum of 2 players.

For months, they should delete the time ranking anyway...
Since that kipy and his band are racing like geeks, the sessions are dull and useless...

And for the question : Splitscreen, is it a valid multiplayer game?, Yes, of course !
(No bug time because it's local, and it's more hard to make good times)
Ohh, Dolo, round 2? :lol:

Anyway we said that easier to cheat in splitscreen than in RVHouse, that's why I won't validate times like this

And 1 thing.. you have problem with me, then say that clearly.. I know it, but I dont know why.. I spoke with you about your favorite topic (the beta) once.. and it was enough.. and you.. you started a war against me.. if you wanna do it.. just do it.. <_<

But only you have problem with me (if I not mistaken) interesting.. :unsure:
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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Skarma
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4 Sep 2013, 01:52 AM #32

This is our big problem with this matter. Some say yes, some say no. Who are we most likely to please and upset if we considered both decisions?

This certainly isn't easy for this exact reason, we're going to be getting some flak either which way we go...
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Balint12
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4 Sep 2013, 08:56 AM #33

Dolo don't be so silly!! I've already told in my previous posts that it's useless to quote the rules, cause somewhere it says that it has to be online, and somewhere it even says that it has to be with RVHouse. Scroll up...

A little later on the same page you quoted:
How can you post a time?
Join or host a multi-player race (in RVHouse).
And someone posted a screenshot too, of a 3rd rule, which says it has to be online. So there are quite a few rules of RVR at the moment, so don't talk like you said facts, that's your opinion.
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Pranav
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4 Sep 2013, 01:55 PM #34

Balint12 @ Sep 4 2013, 02:26 PM wrote:
How can you post a time?
Join or host a multi-player race (in RVHouse).
Does this mean that times through LAN are also invalid? I have submitted a few times in the past and they were validated.

I haven't checked the complete thread but why not validate the Splitscreen ones? Is it possible to cheat in Splitscreen? If so, how?
Xenon1 @RVZT and @RVH
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Kipy
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4 Sep 2013, 03:07 PM #35



My problems with this picture:

- I don't see the Race time under the Best lap time
- I don't see the distance meter on the down, on left
- I don't see the player's names

Without this things easy to edit the picture and easy to use modified cars, because we can't see the (cheat) message next to the players' name.

I don't mean that Go_Away cheated, I mean that if we accept these kind of results, we need accept all and here will be easier to cheat during the race and post invalid times.
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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Pranav
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4 Sep 2013, 03:56 PM #36

Kipy @ Sep 4 2013, 08:37 PM wrote: <image>

My problems with this picture:

- I don't see the Race time under the Best lap time
- I don't see the distance meter on the down, on left
- I don't see the player's names

Without this things easy to edit the picture and easy to use modified cars, because we can't see the (cheat) message next to the players name.

I don't mean that Go_Away cheated, I mean that if we accept these kind of results, we need accept all and here will be easier to cheat during the race and post invalid times.
Good points Kipy, agreed that they should not be validated.

Any idea about the LAN ones?
Xenon1 @RVZT and @RVH
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Kipy
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4 Sep 2013, 04:02 PM #37

Pranav
Any idea about the LAN ones?
Please send me a picture about the Lan ones' result, I can't imagine that :rolleyes:
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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Balint12
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4 Sep 2013, 04:49 PM #38

With the names not being seen, the car could be cheated and we saw no CHT icon. You can do pictures in online races too in an angle where your name (and the possible CHT) would not be seen, but again, it's easier in splitscreen. That further ensures me in my opinion that splitscreen should not be accepted.
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Dolo
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4 Sep 2013, 05:34 PM #39

JaBBier @ Sep 3 2013, 11:16 PM wrote:Dolo, I'm here since march and i've never heard a constructive criticism from you, always crying and complaining about everything and everybody.

You should grow and mature once and for all. I respect all opinions and contributions, but not the crying from an always-criyng person.
I'm here to troll and i'm not english...
How do you want me to make a constructive criticism with a language i can't master...
i don't like the new scene of revolt and some players of this new scene... and this version 1.2 frustrate me since too much time...
I'm nostalgic about the period of 2002-2006, i contributed to my way some years ago for the emancipation of Re-Volt on RVhouse. So I know who i am, but you don't know really who i am...
So please don't talk about maturity or something...
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Rexreynolds
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4 Sep 2013, 05:38 PM #40

cheating usually implies that one player/racer has access to a car that the other person doesn't. so by that definition it can't be cheating if both players are using the same computer. names and 'cht' things don't show in split screen. whether the times are valid for the online/multiplayer games I'll leave to the community.
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JaBBier
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4 Sep 2013, 11:01 PM #41

Dolo @ Sep 4 2013, 06:34 PM wrote:
JaBBier @ Sep 3 2013, 11:16 PM wrote:Dolo, I'm here since march and i've never heard a constructive criticism from you, always crying and complaining about everything and everybody.

You should grow and mature once and for all. I respect all opinions and contributions, but not the crying from an always-criyng person.
I'm here to troll and i'm not english...
How do you want me to make a constructive criticism with a language i can't master...
i don't like the new scene of revolt and some players of this new scene... and this version 1.2 frustrate me since too much time...
I'm nostalgic about the period of 2002-2006, i contributed to my way some years ago for the emancipation of Re-Volt on RVhouse. So I know who i am, but you don't know really who i am...
So please don't talk about maturity or something...
Don't master a language isn't enough to excuse you. The pooh sounds equal in all languages. The problem isn't u dont like the scene and players in the new scene. The matter is that u cant open your mouth to say something positive about something or somebody.

I can talk about maturity or whatever i wanna talk because i'm free and, as yourself said, you contributed..."contributed", you are speaking about past times. Now you are doing the contrary that you are telling to me in your post. You just throw pooh to everybody who doesnt think like you, a bad way to walk in the life. If you are 30 years old you dont seem like it.

And if you are so disappointed with new versions, spend some of your time to make it as you like. I appreciate a lot Huki's and Jig's work, because they make possible to play FREE a great game.

Summarizing: I know who you are. A 30 years old man who behaves like a 10 years old kid, crying, complaining and shitting all opinions, works, people... B)
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Skarma
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4 Sep 2013, 11:25 PM #42

Dolo @ Sep 4 2013, 05:34 PM wrote: I'm here to troll...
Interesting... So what if I accept a time where someone posts a 39 second laptime on nhood1? How is that for a troll?

I would have thought, with you actually being a decent racer an' all, that you might have actually had a decent opinion on this subject but this just doesn't help.
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Phantom
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4 Sep 2013, 11:35 PM #43

Kipy @ Sep 4 2013, 12:07 PM wrote: <image>
My problems with this picture:
- I don't see the Race time under the Best lap time &#10004;
- I don't see the distance meter on the down, on left &#10004;
- I don't see the player's names &#10004;

the 3 things can be fixed and added by Huki.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
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Kipy
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5 Sep 2013, 01:20 PM #44

Phantom @ Sep 5 2013, 12:35 AM wrote:
Kipy @ Sep 4 2013, 12:07 PM wrote: <image>
My problems with this picture:
- I don't see the Race time under the Best lap time &#10004;
- I don't see the distance meter on the down, on left &#10004;
- I don't see the player's names &#10004;

the 3 things can be fixed and added by Huki.
Cool, thanks Phan :)
"Bisvil lircoch adam, ein corech leszfiach dam."
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nero
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21 Sep 2013, 02:52 PM #45

JaBBier @ Sep 5 2013, 12:01 AM wrote: I know who you are. A 30 years old man who behaves like a 10 years old kid, crying, complaining and shitting all opinions, works, people... B)
He's always like this. Best thing to do is shoot him in races everytime. That's what I did.
Saffron.
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