NoCatchup/NoRubberbanding mode and other options

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NoCatchup/NoRubberbanding mode and other options

Iko
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27 Feb 2015, 10:57 AM #1

Sorry for being repetitive (I already made this suggestion in the old suggestions thread that got locked), and sorry if many people consider this as an irrelevant topic, but I think that there should be an option for enabling/disabling the catchup/rubberbanding effect from the AI.

Honestly, I'm fine with all the changes that 1.2 brought to Re-Volt, but the rubberbanding (and the new way of managing the explosions, but that's another matter*) is the only thing that I don't like.

Some time ago, me and my brother made a clone of the NY54 car and changed its class to pro, just to run against Toyeca and Humma that have superior parameters. The rubberbanding effect kills the fun of doing those experiments, it removes depth to the game; but at the same way, I can see why it's needed. It depends on how the player wants to play the game. So, why not an option for enabling/disabling it?

------

*In one of the 1.2 releases, the team fixed the explosion "bug".
The thing was: if you took 2 bombs at the same time, instead of exploding twice, after the fix you will explode only once.
In the original Re-Volt, you exploded multiple times instead, and explosive pickups won't reset your explosive status.
I found it extremely fun, especially in small tracks full of pickups. It's mostly for having fun and playing casually, but I think that an option for re-enabling multiple explosions should also be here.
To be honest, it never looked like a bug to me, and it seems more awkward now that going onto a fake pickup would remove the bomb.

--------

The point of this thread is, every time a change (that's not completely a bug-fix but rather a change of gameplay) is made, there should also be an option to restore it like it was in the original Re-Volt.
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}!{enR
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27 Feb 2015, 02:21 PM #2

Here is what I found inside a readme:
---------------
Alpha 12.0802
---------------
Mod [General]
    - When player has a bomb and bumps into a clone pickup, both the bomb
      and clone explode simultaneously (previously, the bomb was simply
      canceled and only the clone pickup had effect).

---------------
Alpha 11.1215
---------------
Fix [General]
    - Fixed fuse glitch when player with bomb hits a clone pickup and
      explodes.
Actually AFAIK two bombs at once or the "bomb - clone pickup" couple not just explodes simultaneously, but with a doubled power.

In general, perhaps it will be handy to have some kind of "extended config" as a text file with options for most of the changes, but, as has been said by jigebren, it will result in a doubling of the source code, and almost no one will bother to configure all of that stuff...
a.k.a. EvgenKo423
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Phantom
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27 Feb 2015, 07:44 PM #3

I also think that changing the bomb behaviour was a bad idea, no matter if it looks more "real" or not.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
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Abc
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27 Feb 2015, 08:15 PM #4

}!{enR @ 27 Feb 2015, 11:21 AM wrote: In general, perhaps it will be handy to have some kind of "extended config" as a text file with options for most of the changes, but, as has been said by jigebren, it will result in a doubling of the source code, and almost no one will bother to configure all of that stuff...
The minority will....
Actually options would be useful, just dont make it too complex!
Also maybe insert some sort of automatic usage reporting built-in.

For some reason bombs are even weirder, clone pickups defeat the bomb purpose and well, yes some sort of doubling (a "bomb" topic should be opened)
Is the game being aimed to be realistic or not? i guess it never was realistic, why fix something that doesn't need to be fixed!?
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}!{enR
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27 Feb 2015, 08:17 PM #5

It looks like a start of yet another big flooding thread about what has been made wrong, and jigebren will say again "where are you all were when this thing was released"...
a.k.a. EvgenKo423
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ThugsRook
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27 Feb 2015, 08:31 PM #6

^ im all for a better game, but a lot of stuff thats been changed was changed for the worse and for no real reason.
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}!{enR
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27 Feb 2015, 08:31 PM #7

Abc @ 28 Feb 2015, 01:15 AM wrote:For some reason bombs are even weirder, clone pickups defeat the bomb purpose and well, yes some sort of doubling (a "bomb" topic should be opened)
No, you got me wrong, abc. Doubling the straight is not a bug, it's a feature!! In an old readme it was written that doubling is happening because they are exploding simultaneously, because their charges are combining.

Actually I like the new behavior, it is funnier for me when the car is knocked higher because of a double-bang...
ThugsRook @ 28 Feb 2015, 01:31 AM wrote:im all for a better game, but a lot of stuff thats been changed was changed for the worse and for no real reason.
I have to disagree with you...
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Huki
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13 Mar 2015, 05:49 PM #8

Iko @ 27 Feb 2015, 04:27 PM wrote: Sorry for being repetitive (I already made this suggestion in the old suggestions thread that got locked), and sorry if many people consider this as an irrelevant topic, but I think that there should be an option for enabling/disabling the catchup/rubberbanding effect from the AI.
[...]
Some time ago, me and my brother made a clone of the NY54 car and changed its class to pro, just to run against Toyeca and Humma that have superior parameters. The rubberbanding effect kills the fun of doing those experiments, it removes depth to the game; but at the same way, I can see why it's needed. It depends on how the player wants to play the game. So, why not an option for enabling/disabling it?
The rubberbanding is an original feature that has existed since 1.0, but if you think it could be useful to disable it for doing tests like yours, maybe we can add an option in the profile ini to enable / disable it.
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Abc
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13 Mar 2015, 06:43 PM #9

^^ Exactly what we need for testing!!!
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
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sebr
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13 Mar 2015, 06:54 PM #10

What is rubberbanding, and how it's work ?

I don't understand what is it exactly :huh:
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Abc
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13 Mar 2015, 07:06 PM #11

sebr @ 13 Mar 2015, 03:54 PM wrote: What is rubberbanding, and how it's work ?

I don't understand what is it exactly  :huh:
RubberBanding is some sort of handicap, the rest of the cars have little more speed over their "natural" stats so they're able to pass cars, it applies for all cars except the one who is 1st. (you never ever played Daytona USA?)

EDIT: actually the cars that are "over" the player slow-down so they allow you to pass them. (that's specific to re-volt)
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
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Kenny
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13 Mar 2015, 08:12 PM #12

^please don't explain stuff when you don't know what you're talking about, thats exactly the reason why people get mad about things for no good reason.

Rubberbanding in Re-Volt is not only beneficial for the AI, it goes both ways.
You could have at the very least taken a look into the source code to verify this (taken from Xbox source, manmountain already posted part of this here):

Code: Select all

// Speed up trailing cars
if (dist > gpCatchUpVars->lenSpeedUp){
    ...
}
// Slow down leading cars
else if &#40;dist < -gpCatchUpVars->lenSlowDown&#41;{
    ...
}
else{
    // Was the car in catchup & has now just overtaken ?
    if &#40;&#40;pPlayer->CarAI.catchUpMode == 1&#41; && gpCatchUpVars->bSpeedUpOvertake&#41;{
        ...
    }
    // Was the car in slowdown ?
    else if &#40;&#40;pPlayer->CarAI.catchUpMode == -1&#41; && gpCatchUpVars->bSlowDownOvertake&#41;{
        ...
    }
}
You don't need to understand every code line, the comments should be pretty much self explanatory...

As for the general concept of rubberbanding, read here and/or here
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Abc
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13 Mar 2015, 08:24 PM #13

I tried to explain it the best as my limited knowledge allows me to.....
And i was close to the actual concept.
Please don't criticize.
Thanks for clearing it out anyway.
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
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Kenny
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13 Mar 2015, 08:31 PM #14

Abc @ 13 Mar 2015, 09:24 PM wrote: And i was close to the actual concept.
Yes but you made it sound like it was a bad thing that has only negative effects on the player which is not the case.

So before you make any claims about such things it would benefit everyone if you could at least verify them before posting, thanks.
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jigebren
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13 Mar 2015, 09:35 PM #15

Hmm... Kenny, unless Abc edited his first post since - which I strongly presume, given how your answer sounds unrelated to his - he was rather actually helpful and didn't sound negative IMO. Better keep overreacting for when it's obviously deserved...
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Kenny
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13 Mar 2015, 09:48 PM #16

^he actually didn't edit his original post, at least the overall text is the same as I have it in my memory.

I'm not sure how you think my answer sounds unrelated to his though, he explained something and I corrected it with a more detailed response.

To be more specific, the negative part from his explanation comes from the fact that he only mentions that "cars gain a little more speed" and that its some kind of "handicap" for all other cars as a result when in fact thats only half of the effect it has ingame.
A third person who doesn't know anything about the mechanic itself (like sebr) could come to the conclusion from this explanation that its a completely irrelevant or even malicious feature and boycott it as a result.

Though I admit that I started off a little rude at the beginning and I apologize for that, I'm just fed up with people complaining only because somebody explained things wrong or partially (there were already some people like that in the other AI thread and we had plenty of that in the physics discussion where nobody even bothered to clarify if the problem was in Single- or Multiplayer mode).
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Abc
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13 Mar 2015, 11:01 PM #17

I rushed it and it was too basic, I'm sorry for it.
Sure, next time I'll research more.
past is past.
Apologies Kenny.

ps: i didn't edit it, im not happy or angry, its just my "vision" of it, Apologizes for making it too stupid, i dont get why it gives the feeling that it's mean (maybe past? post-traumatic effect?)

ps2: actually i updated it now, i had forgotten that it applies for slowdowns too.
(also kenny: i felt that you insulted my knowledge a bit. i apologized already, i think you owe me an apology too..)
Kenny wrote:please don't explain stuff when you don't know what you're talking about, thats exactly the reason why people get mad about things for no good reason
I think you're the only one who got mad.
jigebren @ 13 Mar 2015, 06:35 PM wrote:...given how your answer sounds unrelated to his - he was rather actually helpful and didn't sound negative IMO. Better keep overreacting for when it's obviously deserved...
Agreed, I'm sorry if the way i told it makes you mad, i explained it noob-friendly. (or at least i tried to)
Let's just ask SebR if my information was useful or not before ranting more please. (that's called feedback)
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
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jigebren
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14 Mar 2015, 03:48 AM #18

Kenny @ 13 Mar 2015, 10:48 PM wrote:(there were already some people like that in the other AI thread and we had plenty of that in the physics discussion where nobody even bothered to clarify if the problem was in Single- or Multiplayer mode).
That, I can only agree. -_-
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Kenny
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14 Mar 2015, 10:30 AM #19

Abc @ 14 Mar 2015, 12:01 AM wrote: (also kenny: i felt that you insulted my knowledge a bit. i apologized already, i think you owe me an apology too..)
My previous post wasn't directed towards you and was merely meant as an explanation for my pre-previous post so there is no need for you to apologize again.

As for my apology, I already wrote one in my previous post which brings me back to my original point: Please check your facts before posting, thanks.
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sebr
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14 Mar 2015, 11:56 AM #20

[HIDE=Offtopic] Je me serai abstenu si j'avais su que ma question ferai un tel débat :blink: [/HIDE]

If I understand correctly, rubberbanding slow down cars in front of me and speed up cars behind me ... I'm sure it's more complicated but it's the main purpose, isn't it ?
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Abc
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14 Mar 2015, 12:12 PM #21

Okay, Kenny: we're good then.

Yes sebr, basically that :)
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
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Iko
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14 Mar 2015, 10:43 PM #22

Huki @ 13 Mar 2015, 06:49 PM wrote:
Iko @ 27 Feb 2015, 04:27 PM wrote: Sorry for being repetitive (I already made this suggestion in the old suggestions thread that got locked), and sorry if many people consider this as an irrelevant topic, but I think that there should be an option for enabling/disabling the catchup/rubberbanding effect from the AI.
[...]
Some time ago, me and my brother made a clone of the NY54 car and changed its class to pro, just to run against Toyeca and Humma that have superior parameters. The rubberbanding effect kills the fun of doing those experiments, it removes depth to the game; but at the same way, I can see why it's needed. It depends on how the player wants to play the game. So, why not an option for enabling/disabling it?
The rubberbanding is an original feature that has existed since 1.0, but if you think it could be useful to disable it for doing tests like yours, maybe we can add an option in the profile ini to enable / disable it.
Thank you for the consideration!

Anyway, I never noticed it in the 1.0... maybe because the AI was different... I tried using the RC bandit in the platinum cup and was very hard to win.
I tried the same thing with one more recent build and it was a lot easier... maybe it's just that I became better at driving :D

Anyway I still have a Re-Volt instnce with that build where the catchup was disabled, and I often use it to test my cars against the CPU cars.
If you will implement it in a new build I'd be very happy!

About the explosion thing, I tried the 1.0 again and it looks that getting 2 bombs would still make you explode 1 single time. Probably the only difference is with the fake pickups.
I never noticed the thing that the explosion is doubled, that's actually cool. I think it's good either ways, one is funnier and the other is more strategic. I don't know, I like both ways of managing explosions.
(I need to test more about this subject though)
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sebr
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15 Mar 2015, 11:30 AM #23

Iko @ 14 Mar 2015, 11:43 PM wrote: About the explosion thing, I tried the 1.0 again and it looks that getting 2 bombs would still make you explode 1 single time. Probably the only difference is with the fake pickups.
I never noticed the thing that the explosion is doubled, that's actually cool. I think it's good either ways, one is funnier and the other is more strategic. I don't know, I like both ways of managing explosions.
(I need to test more about this subject though)
It's only my opinion about bombs and fake pickups.
But I prefer the 1.0 management : getting a bomb, explode with a fake pickups and still have the bomb countdown and try to pass it to someone else :P
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Kipy
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19 Mar 2015, 08:26 PM #24

But if you exploded by a fake pick when you have bomb too, you can't pass it to other player.
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Iko
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28 Mar 2015, 07:45 PM #25

I just downloaded the new release and I checked at the changelog. Thank you guys!!! I have still to try it, anyway I really appreciated that you listened to my suggestions!
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