Moderators: Huki, jigebren

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

15 Aug 2015, 08:55 PM #101

When I tried RVGL for the first time the handling was a little strange, more... Bouncy? I can't explain, maybe it was just an impression because after frequent switching from 1.2 (13a.0815) to RVGL I didn't notice any differences. Anyways, I would suggest (if possible) to make the color of the light that surrounds the pickup/star (or the shockwave or the car when using battery/thunder) directly modifiable from the user (on a fxpage or whathever).
Quote
Like
Share

Dolo
Alcoholic
Dolo
Alcoholic
Joined: 26 Feb 2012, 04:58 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:07 AM #102

nevermind @ 15 Aug 2015, 06:02 PM wrote:"I feel that ..." is an infinitely accurate and rigorous way to determine how something works in detail, and provides every needed information about it. Thus, it is the perfect feedback for developers.

No.
These "feelings" are surely the thing the most reliable it here...
And i said what is the problem >> Increased sensitivity, shorter steering range, loss of grip of the cars, rebound surfaces...
Now developpers should know why it's totally different between 1.1/beta and RVGL...
They never say something about that but even with keyboard, you can see this differences...
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:29 AM #103

Oh look, the baguette repasted.
(and nevermind hasnt said usefulness?)
All i see is you guys being on a huge placebo. the game is fine, different technology used, no big deal, quit it.
Give us XInput (at least on 1.2/directx, would be just great lol)
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Touriga
Regular
Touriga
Regular
Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 07:07 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:33 AM #104

I dare to say (under danger of Dolo calling me a noob) that the driving of 15.0413 is ok.

I haven't tested RVGL, but installation under Windows 7 went well and managed to join online immediately, had no sound at first run but it was working on the second.

Just my 5 cents.

Thank you for all you work Huki.

All the best,

Touriga
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:33 AM #105

The particles in fxpage1 are for some reason stretched. If this is intended, i don't like it.
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:35 AM #106

Thanks Touriga for making it clear that Dolo has some sort of placebo.
Ah, give rvgl a try please, and let us know if there's placebo around us.

ciccio, bug probably, remember rvgl is pretty wip, its like google.
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Gotolei
Alcoholic
Gotolei
Alcoholic
Joined: 12 Mar 2014, 12:26 AM

16 Aug 2015, 08:44 AM #107

It might be worth pointing out that RVGL is a "rewrite/port" of an ancient game to a different, newer codebase and platform.

While I haven't noticed any changes myself, maybe there's a chance of minute calculation differences that don't change much but could still be noticed by someone who's played the game for a long time?
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:49 AM #108

Exactly...

and actually this is what i meant with loss of spirit.
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Dolo
Alcoholic
Dolo
Alcoholic
Joined: 26 Feb 2012, 04:58 PM

16 Aug 2015, 08:55 AM #109

Touriga @ 16 Aug 2015, 09:33 AM wrote: I dare to say (under danger of Dolo calling me a noob) that the driving of 15.0413 is ok.

I haven't tested RVGL, but installation under Windows 7 went well and managed to join online immediately, had no sound at first run but it was working on the second.

Just my 5 cents.

Thank you for all you work Huki.

All the best,

Touriga
Say that the driving of 15.0413 is OK means nothing...
On all alphas i can turn to left, to right, so yes it's OK...
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

16 Aug 2015, 02:41 PM #110

Areno @ 16 Aug 2015, 01:35 AM wrote:The screen doesn't turn bluish in water in RVGL.
Fixed.
Ciccio wrote:The particles in fxpage1 are for some reason stretched. If this is intended, i don't like it.
Aah, I see what you mean.. stupid typo while porting the effects code. Good find. :thumbs-up:
it's me or is physics modified? for me it works differently since 1.2, i think it has to do with the technology used....

i had the moto.wav error but it was like once in toy1, nowhere else and it just fixed itself
1) It's you.
2) For now I have no clue.. did you also have any music player in the background.
sebr wrote:rvgl can't deal with : é è à... on folder names...
an exemple of car who work on rv 1.0 & 1.2 but not with rvgl : ToyàPig
Hmm, on Windows it can't deal with the folder names? Is the car not even detected, or are you able to select it, but you get "can't load ... prm" errors when the car is being loaded?
Btw, I downloaded the car (a few minutes before you removed it :P) but I'll get into more details in a separate thread (I'll split your post).
Gotolei wrote:It might be worth pointing out that RVGL is a "rewrite/port" of an ancient game to a different, newer codebase and platform.

While I haven't noticed any changes myself, maybe there's a chance of minute calculation differences that don't change much but could still be noticed by someone who's played the game for a long time?
From what I understand, dolo says both the latest v1.2 alphas and rvgl have these changes while the original v1.1 and the v1.2b do not. He's just bringing his old problem to this new thread expecting new answers.. :blink: I'm sorry, I wish we could help him but like I said earlier, without rigorous tests to confirm that there is definitely some difference we can't start to do anything.
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

16 Aug 2015, 04:44 PM #111

Another little bug:

Is present with every language but English and French. In Swedish there is the opposite problem (text reaches the half of the box).

Also, it works only with championships, with tracks the text displayed is always the english one (Locked).
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

16 Aug 2015, 05:44 PM #112

Huki @ 16 Aug 2015, 11:41 AM wrote:
it's me or is physics modified? for me it works differently since 1.2, i think it has to do with the technology used....

i had the moto.wav error but it was like once in toy1, nowhere else and it just fixed itself
1) It's you.
2) For now I have no clue.. did you also have any music player in the background
1) Confirmed, Dolo is freaking out again with placebos. and maybe other people.
2) nope, and it happened like only once with the first build.
ps: i cant seem to be able to run 11.0421 on my computers for some reason (actually i forgot the exact version and what exactly happens, pm me for tests if you would like to troubleshoot it)
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Phantom
100% Proofer
Phantom
100% Proofer
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 04:01 PM

16 Aug 2015, 10:23 PM #113

Nobody is freaking out. It's actually quite positive that Dolo and even the rest of the online players have interest in this new invention, which we were ignoring so far, I admit, the same way the developers have been ignoring our suggestions for v1.2. But now I understand why.

My biggest fear with this RVGL thing was that it would become something too different from the game itself, but from what I've tested so far this is going on the right direction this time, and many of us online players hope for the same. RVGL has been the talk of the week, no doubt about that. And we've tested it quite a lot. I even made a ready-to-use package with the music included for all the people interested to test this but found the installation and double patching complicated and tedious.

From these tests with Alpha 0810 and 0814 there are some things that deserve highlighting.

• It requires only 1 port to play online, and only the host is required to open it. This is what I like the most about it and it made me understand why this project is worth giving it a try. This solves 16 years of multiplayer conflicts and puts Re-Volt in a more comfortable situation compared to other old games.
• And the switch from P2P to Sever-Client seems to have made major progress to the lag problem. It has been years since the last time I've played such lagless races like this week. There was still lag in the races this week, but as long as we found a strong host it was minimum for everybody.
• Another noticeable thing is its speed. Every loadscreen is incredibly fast, switching from one track to the other in half second is amazing. Maybe the transition isn't refined yet, but it's great progress.
• And two other nice things are the fact that it automatically detects the best resolution available instead of that horrible 640x480 default, together with the ability to switch to window mode whenever you want.

The few issues I've noticed are:
• At least for French and Spanish, symbols / characters for multiplayer chat have changed from its correspondent keys. I can't find question marks and other symbols after upgrading to RVGL. Will it be fixed for next release?

• Something I find odd is that when you are in the 'Waiting Room' and you want to go back to Options menu, you are disconnected from the game. Either for clients or host it's the same. And since the clients depend on the Host now to see each other, the whole game is terminated if the Host needs to go back to Options to change the number of laps. I hope this is not the expected behaviour. I have a suggestion about displaying the Options in multiplayer but I'll write it in the Suggestions thread later.

• When you paste a copied IP into the game using Ctrl+V command it also pastes a V next to the IP number. Could you avoid it?

• Error messages like "Can't create enet server" (which pops up when the port is being used by another application) or "Connection to host timed out" (when the host has ports closed or there is no host) should be replaced with internal messages and should be displayed in the user's language. It shouldn't make the game minimize and it should be clearer to understand. Nobody speaking plain English knows what an enet server is or what to do in order to fix it. I suggest making error messages like these translatable via strings, so every translator can make a better explanation of the error and offer a quick action on what to do to help the people from their countries better. So we avoid historically useless error messages like 'can't connect to lobby session'.

• I also got the error Can't load sfx 'wavs/moto.wav' into slot 0! in 3-4 occasions. Here's a screenshot. Situation is that we were racing a stocks session with 4 players. After 5 tracks raced, the error popped up for mmud at the start of Ghost Town 1 R and made his game minimize. Then next track was Toy in the Hood 2 and it popped up for me and made my game minimize. I closed the game and here's the revolt.log that was inside profiles folder in case it's useful for something.

• Late Joining works but Spectating mode doesn't. I late joined a game and I was stuck at waiting room until the Host restarted.

• Botanical Garden makes the game sort of "freeze" for me. I would say the game seems lagging but I don't want it to be confused with internet lag. This is like screen lag. It happens only on this track and doesn't happen on v1.2. For years with my current computer I always needed to use VSync On because turning VSync Off made all of the tracks lag for me. VSync Off is said to improve the game performance for most online players but for me VSync On was the best I could get. Even at 60fps the game was more stable and less freezy than with 200fps. I assume it was a hardware thing and that I need a strong PC to make good use of the Vsync Off feature. On RVGL the situation is the same than with v1.2 with the exception of Botanical Garden. Only this track freezes terribly for me, especially on curves when I'm moving fast. But turning VSync Off seems to make it calm down. And I really enjoyed the feeling of VSync off on this track. I'm much more agile. :)

Other issues:
Chat in GameRanger wrote:mmud: this version does not like my screen capture program for some reason......all black and that's it
mmud: maybe something to do with directx?
Phantom: what software mmud?
mmud: hypersnap
mmud: fraps works
Chat in GameRanger wrote:SCracer: steering is different for my wheel
Phantom: dolo mentioned something similar
SCracer: dolo and i use the same wheel
Chat in GameRanger wrote:mmud: What Dolo said is true tho, I've said the same thing before about the steering
mmud: Some versions are horrible for gamepad but it's different for each racers
mmud: Like Huki said it shouldn't make a difference with driving vsync off  or on.  With vsync on it's like I'm driving through mud.....big difference for me.
mmud: I like rvgl so far though, and even Dolo has said it is not bad.
mmud: Obviously the beta works best for him and Kipy
About the unfixable physics bugs, of course I also feel the differences and it's not a placebo effect. But with the time I finally gave up on them. I learnt to accept that there are some things that can't be fixed. Old versions have a better taste but this new version' taste is not bad. At least I had better races playing with 15.0413 or RVGL compared to the horrible feeling of 13.0820.

When is it going to have lobby support so I can test in GameRanger? I already got GR to launch the game perfectly by renaming rvgl.exe to revolt.exe but without lobby mode. Also, since renaming rvgl.exe to revolt.exe makes the game launch correctly anyway. What's the purpose of having 2 .exes?

My greetings and cheers for this release.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
Quote
Like
Share

VaiDuX461
Methanolic
VaiDuX461
Methanolic
Joined: 2 Jul 2011, 04:02 PM

16 Aug 2015, 10:54 PM #114

Phantom @ 17 Aug 2015, 01:23 AM wrote:Since renaming rvgl.exe to revolt.exe makes the game launch correctly anyway. What's the purpose of having 2 .exes?
Because rvgl is not revolt. Sounds funny, but it's true.
1.2 cannot be replaced with this, because rvgl is different. It uses completely different graphics library, that's probably the main point. Old games, which had multiple api support for graphics, had separate executables (not always the case!). One, for example, direct3d, another for opengl and third for glide. Obviously, it's not a definite reason why rvgl should be called revolt.exe, but in my opinion, rvgl is a perfect name for executable. That also avoids some "copyright bs" with wego (though app title still reads Re-Volt).
I also prefer having both: 1.2 and rvgl side by side.

There are more reasons why, huki will answer this much better.

I indeed forgot to mention, long time ago, that screen capturing programs doesn't like rvgl for some reason.
aka VaidX47, Vaid
--------------------
>[MediaFire Stuff]< | >[Steam Profile]<
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

17 Aug 2015, 02:35 AM #115

Reshade works charm, maybe thats a hint of everything (man, its OpenGL that's the reason to the problems, capturers use directx maybe?)

Also there's loss of functionality in multiplayer system:
1) spectator is gone
2) host mitigation/giveaway is gone (all you get is multiplayer terminated when host leaves)
3) multiplayer specific menu is gone too (means 2) pretty much)
4) now the server dies and spawns as soon you exit or enter multiplayer, a bit too "invasive"?

Yeah, well, yep, game messages should be less cryptic. i don't understand why developers refuse to give the tools to the geek user to properly report/test/troubleshoot.
and half of changes made are not on the changelog :wacko:

side note: RVGL is short of Re-Volt (Open)GL and its easier to say "RVGL" in first place.
and yep, rvgl no longer uses directplay so stop trying to make it work by renaming it (having it named right makes their "apps" detect it (so dumb) )
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

17 Aug 2015, 08:53 AM #116

So some graphical issues I occasionally I have (mostly screen lag with V-Sync off in windowed mode) could be solved if the .exe file was rvgl.exe instead of revolt.exe?
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

17 Aug 2015, 10:00 AM #117

no, unless application profiles are involved, just use rvgl.exe for the sake of it!
vsync off is known for causing lag, its due to a burst of fps causing input lag. just enable it and forget it lol
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

ElectricBee
Regular
Joined: 11 Sep 2013, 04:47 PM

17 Aug 2015, 12:41 PM #118

So I just tried out the latest build, and I have a few things to say about it.
  • For some reason, the AI really suck and was only truly competitive on JRC
  • Pyron's Realm, an old map, cannot load kids.wav into slot 55. (What?)
  • On the two-port PSX adapter I have, controllers 1 and 2 are swapped (Why?)
  • There are no screen fades in Windows (Will look again in Linux when I am not super busy)
Most custom stuff works perfectly fine, though, and that's pretty nice.
I occasionally make stuff at Re-Volt Live. Come and check it out some time.
Traitors deserve the monsters they make.

Join us on Discord!
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

18 Aug 2015, 12:34 PM #119

Ciccio @ 16 Aug 2015, 10:14 PM wrote: Another little bug:

Is present with every language but English and French. In Swedish there is the opposite problem (text reaches the half of the box).

Also, it works only with championships, with tracks the text displayed is always the english one (Locked).
Ok, fixed both.
Ciccio wrote:So some graphical issues I occasionally I have (mostly screen lag with V-Sync off in windowed mode) could be solved if the .exe file was rvgl.exe instead of revolt.exe?
It doesn't have anything to do with the filename. In windowed mode the monitor is not exclusively owned by re-volt, so hardware cannot do a fast buffers flip - it has to fallback to the much slower blitting of pixels. This may not be supported well with all configurations, but it should already be much better supported in OpenGL than in legacy DirectX, especially with V-sync on.
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

18 Aug 2015, 01:36 PM #120

Hi Phantom, thanks for the detailed feedback! :)
Phantom @ 17 Aug 2015, 03:53 AM wrote:The few issues I've noticed are:
• At least for French and Spanish, symbols / characters for multiplayer chat have changed from its correspondent keys. I can't find question marks and other symbols after upgrading to RVGL. Will it be fixed for next release?
Yes, this part is unfinished - it should be done by the next release.
• Something I find odd is that when you are in the 'Waiting Room' and you want to go back to Options menu, you are disconnected from the game. Either for clients or host it's the same. And since the clients depend on the Host now to see each other, the whole game is terminated if the Host needs to go back to Options to change the number of laps. I hope this is not the expected behaviour. I have a suggestion about displaying the Options in multiplayer but I'll write it in the Suggestions thread later.
Same as above, it's just unfinished.
• When you paste a copied IP into the game using Ctrl+V command it also pastes a V next to the IP number. Could you avoid it?
Ok, I'll check that.
• Late Joining works but Spectating mode doesn't. I late joined a game and I was stuck at waiting room until the Host restarted.
This is intended because the data needed to get you into the ongoing race is rather big: it could overwhelm the host and cause the network to lag everytime someone is late-joining. So we rather let the late-joiner wait at the waiting room until the host restarts.
In fact I'm thinking of supporting different Bandwidth levels (low / medium / high) with the default being medium. Then if the host uses the "high" bandwidth setting, he will send the full data to the late joiner enabling him to jump into the current race. P2P should also come as an optional setting for hosts with slow connections, but client/server is definitely recommended as long as hosts with good connection are available.
• Botanical Garden makes the game sort of "freeze" for me. I would say the game seems lagging but I don't want it to be confused with internet lag. This is like screen lag. It happens only on this track and doesn't happen on v1.2. For years with my current computer I always needed to use VSync On because turning VSync Off made all of the tracks lag for me. VSync Off is said to improve the game performance for most online players but for me VSync On was the best I could get. Even at 60fps the game was more stable and less freezy than with 200fps. I assume it was a hardware thing and that I need a strong PC to make good use of the Vsync Off feature. On RVGL the situation is the same than with v1.2 with the exception of Botanical Garden. Only this track freezes terribly for me, especially on curves when I'm moving fast. But turning VSync Off seems to make it calm down. And I really enjoyed the feeling of VSync off on this track. I'm much more agile. :)
Interesting.. if I'm correct this could be due to the water ripple object (the dolphin pool with the nice ripple animation). Just to confirm, can you delete this object and save the .fob file and tell me if the lag goes away?
To draw this ripple effect we use an OpenGL feature that needs to be optimized in a specific way, otherwise some stupid video drivers may not handle it well. I have put away this work so far as I wanted to know if someone actually gets the issue, but if you can confirm using the above test I'll finish it for the next release.
When is it going to have lobby support so I can test in GameRanger? I already got GR to launch the game perfectly by renaming rvgl.exe to revolt.exe but without lobby mode. Also, since renaming rvgl.exe to revolt.exe makes the game launch correctly anyway. What's the purpose of having 2 .exes?
As we don't use DirectPlay anymore, adding lobby support requires changes to be done in the lobby program (RVH or GR) too. This is straightforward and simple to do, but someone has to be willing to do it. Do you think the GR devs are up to it?
Instead of using DirectPlay to launch re-volt, they simply have to directly (haha no pun intended) launch the rvgl with certain command lines, say for example:
- The host should be launched with "rvgl.exe -lobby"
- The clients should be launched with "rvgl.exe -lobby <host_ip_address>"
The specification isn't finalized yet, but it should be something similar to the above.

And Vaid is right about the reasons we use different file names for rvgl and v1.2. One more important reason is to allow people to test and use both rvgl and v1.2 from the same folder.
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

18 Aug 2015, 05:39 PM #121

it's going to be easier for RVH because it lets you specify commandlines.
gr: doubtful, have good contact with Scott Kevill? and its doable in the following ways: add RVGL versioning and rvgl.exe and thus use -lobby within gameranger with versioning or make a new entry called rvgl

ps: i've felt little ignored mr huki :c
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Phantom
100% Proofer
Phantom
100% Proofer
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 04:01 PM

18 Aug 2015, 09:11 PM #122

About hypersnap and gadwin printscreeen not working, mmud discovered it's fullscreen causing the problem. On window mode it works.
So we rather let the late-joiner wait at the waiting room until the host restarts.
Yes I understand the reason for this. It's a good reason for disabling spectating. However, waiting in the plain waiting room for 4 minutes is awful. Maybe we can think of an implementation that is more pleasing for the late joiners and healthy for the people racing when spectating is off.

About lobby support yes I can contact Scott as he was willing to enable late joining and 12 player rooms the last time I asked him. But since your implementation is not yet finished I'll wait a bit longer to bother him only once.

I'll check about the water ripple object later.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

19 Aug 2015, 01:01 AM #123

do you have him as friend? not sure how you would contact him since chatrooms has been taken down. unless on forum
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

19 Aug 2015, 11:07 AM #124

I have a suggestion: add DC cars and rooftops by default, so carboxes in the frontend, rooftops as medium difficult track and used in championships.

[Vaid]: Check this topic for more info: http://z3.invisionfree.com/Our_ReVolt_P ... =1872&st=0

Right the topic I was referring to. Thanks Vaid.
Quote
Like
Share

Gotolei
Alcoholic
Gotolei
Alcoholic
Joined: 12 Mar 2014, 12:26 AM

19 Aug 2015, 11:52 AM #125

About that.. if RVGL is supposed to be a whole new thing then do v1.2-based arguments apply?

Sure SNW and Purp are more powerful than their PC counterparts but that doesn't mean they weren't made by Acclaim.
Quote
Like
Share

Phantom
100% Proofer
Phantom
100% Proofer
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 04:01 PM

21 Aug 2015, 08:31 PM #126

About the screen freezing, other players have been mentioning the same during online races in the last days. I tested with the modified .fob suggested by Huki (thx vaid for helping me) and it didn't produce any difference on the track. I am beginning to think that maybe RVGL is more resource hungry and the freezings have something to do with ram memory or buffer.

For example, when I first noticed the screen hangs on botanical garden with Vsync on, I had other stuff running on the background so I suppose the memory wasn't as empty as RVGL required. Normally I do not need to close everything to play on v1.2. Today I tested restarting my computer to completely refresh memory and inmediately after restarting I joined an online game hosted by mmud without applications running on the background and there was no screen freezing on garden this time. Also botanical garden was the first track we raced so I guess this is due to the fact that my ram memory (4GB) wasn't overloaded this time. I'm not really sure, I think I should do more tests to arrive to any real conclusion but this is my current point of thought.

Unlike me, mmud uses Vsync off. For him occasional hangs occur even on v1.2 alpha with vsync off, but with RVGL they happen a lot more often. Closing background applications like Gameranger or RVhouse alleviate the little screen freezings. Vsync on doesn't produce freezings for him, but he won't use it since the driving is too much different from Vsync off.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

21 Aug 2015, 09:13 PM #127

i had lots of freezings and disconnections when ceduu was hosting last night.
rvgl is multi-threaded (multicpu). that might be the cause. also vsync off is known to have issues. especially with normal input like mouse. (this is common: half life 1 input doesnt answer with very high fps)
Just enable vsync and retest (nvidia users use adaptative vsync (saves power) )

rvgl is light on ram: im without paging and it eats only 103mb

games weren't designed with very high fps in mind, so either use a fps limiter or turn vsync on. Vsync is an anti-tearing method.

also, nopause should be triggerable without dev, its very useful for every player and it should be enabled by default in multiplayer because it ensures no package loss.

something else that left unnoticed: RVGL is forcing US Layout regardless of system settings
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

23 Aug 2015, 04:49 PM #128

Phantom @ 22 Aug 2015, 02:01 AM wrote:About the screen freezing, [...] I am beginning to think that maybe RVGL is more resource hungry and the freezings have something to do with ram memory or buffer.
Is the freezing specific to multiplayer or can you reproduce it offline too?
Vsync off may not be handled well by all gfx cards, but your freeze in garden with vsync on is strange. Are you sure you deleted the correct object (the water surface) in the fob file?
Phantom wrote:Unlike me, mmud uses Vsync off. For him occasional hangs occur even on v1.2 alpha with vsync off, but with RVGL they happen a lot more often. Closing background applications like Gameranger or RVhouse alleviate the little screen freezings. Vsync on doesn't produce freezings for him, but he won't use it since the driving is too much different from Vsync off.
Is this difference in driving noticeable with the keyboard too or only with wheels / gamepads?
Quote
Like
Share

stoney1918
Regular
Joined: 25 Jun 2011, 02:54 AM

24 Aug 2015, 01:05 AM #129

Just got it working on Ubuntu 15.04 X64. Had some trouble getting the last library on the list, libenet2a. It doesn't seem to be in the repositories for 15.04, so I got around this by adding the lines

deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu trusty universe

to my /etc/apt/sources.list file. Without that lib, rvgl would do absolutely nothing, didn't create any logs or anything.

I'll check back in after some testing.
The end.
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

24 Aug 2015, 01:28 AM #130

the freezing we are having are actually short hangs/fps drops that happen randomly, mostly noticed in multiplayer.
i believe libenet is struggling a lot?
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Phantom
100% Proofer
Phantom
100% Proofer
Joined: 21 Mar 2011, 04:01 PM

24 Aug 2015, 09:41 AM #131

RVGL does indeed require a lot of free memory to be stable, probably GPU memory or RAM memory.

Right after restarting the computer, RVGL is better than after minutes using a browser, adobe reader or microsoft word. My freezings stop after a fresh restart and appear if I play after having used the computer for a while, even if I close all applications before playing. Re-Volt 1.2 does not behave that way, being it graphically stable even after using other software before playing. Online or offline does not make a difference, so it is not specific to multiplayer. It is a graphical thing related to memory usage I guess.

Without restarting my pc, I normally get a huge FPS drop on RVGL right after loading Botanical Garden. The first number indicated by the game's FPS meter is always incredibly low (10-12fps) and then it increases after 3,2,1,Go signal. Is this because RVGL is dealing with 3d objects like the columns at the starting grid? The 2 places where fps drop the most are here and the hill before the bridge section.

Restarting the computer makes the graphics flow better.

The only other track apart from Garden where the screen hangs happen is Ghost Town 1, here I also experience a massive fps drop at the starting grid (too many 3d objects at the distance or near the place maybe?). It doesn't happen on other tracks, or at least I haven't noticed it yet with my hardware.

I had a client's pc at home this weekend which was perfect for testing RVGL. PC specifications are Pentium E2180 Dual @ 2.00GHz 2.00GHz, 2.00 GB of RAM and Intel 82945G Express GPU, more than enough to play Re-Volt. I made a comparison between RVGL and last alpha 0330 on it. Both tests with VSync on and at 1024x768x24. At only 2GB of RAM the last 1.2 alpha works magnificiently without fps drops or any screen hangs. On the other hand, RVGL is hardly playable because of the continuous hangs of the screen and difficulty handling the graphic objects at that resolution. A great example of this is at the Frontend in the car selection area. RV1.2 displays all the carboxes smoothly and without difficulty while RVGL sort of freezes when moving through the cars and menus at frontend. The only thing that made things better was reducing the resolution of RVGL to 640x480x24. It made the screen hangs stop and the game was more fluent graphically.

The graphic performance of RVGL is drastically lower at the same settings, at least noticeable with low specs computers like the one mentioned.
Huki wrote:Is this difference in driving noticeable with the keyboard too or only with wheels / gamepads?
From my notebook keyboard and with my current hardware at least, I can't feel noticeable driving differences between last alpha and RVGL. I think mmud (gamepad user), scracer or dolo (wheel users) can give a more accurate answer, but I think it is only perceived on gamepads / wheels.

Other stuff:

Moto.wav error is a pain in the a&#036;&#036;! It happened 5 times in a row during my tests, especially after playing the game for a while but sometimes happens even after just 3 tracks, it popped up 5 times even when loading Frontend. I shoud mention my memory was quite full back then.

New bug, I tried to complete the game and I'm stuck because I can't do Silver Cup. Beating Bronze track doesn't really unlock Silver Cup.

Kosztya discovered Brightness and Contrast cannot be modified in Video Settings.
We don't stop playing because we get older, we get older because we stop playing.
Quote
Like
Share

Mladen007
Regular
Joined: 1 Jun 2013, 04:54 PM

24 Aug 2015, 02:55 PM #132

Is this difference in driving noticeable with the keyboard too or only with wheels / gamepads?
Yes,there's a lot more input lag with vsync on
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

24 Aug 2015, 03:23 PM #133

My Botanical Garden doesn't have any fps issue, even with some 1024x1024 textures, with 12 players and pickups, so I can't really help but I found something interesting about the track and about why it doesn't use a skybox...
[HIDE]
[/HIDE]


The Gray Screen (as I call it) displays water movements of the two final waterstreams (if the waterstreams aren't rendered it stops and the left stream is on the right of the Gray Screen and vice versa). This prevent any mod maker from adding a skybox in this track and could be the possible reason of the lag (not so sure, I can't test since it doesn't lag to me).
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

24 Aug 2015, 04:44 PM #134

Garden uses Clouds(object!)..... you probably have too much modding. please test with a clean install, thanks. EDIT: ok, i have no clue. EDIT2: maybe your problem is related to garden fog object, i removed all sprinklers, added skybox: only noticed flickering in cloud themselves. restored and removed only garden fog and clouds, no problems either. with garden fog it seem to have less fps than without (not sure if its actually a fps hitter or my cpu is heavy at the given moment)
ps:i noticed multiple big circles around the map, your first screenshot has the red circle shape.

devs: please review the technology used. something is causing this troubles. this is another reason why directx kinda leads: it's tested and stable.
i can understand you guys want to go FOSS, but please verify the libraries used are bugfree at least.

rvgl works fine on my laptop, there's some hangs and drops but that's the hardware pretty much... cpu is at 30% which is acceptable on a dual core 1ghz apu. my fps goes by 29-90 and average of ~47 fps. (vsync off)
ai appear to be harder or im having bad luck.

Save replay makes me stuck in a faded background with nothing in it.
Replay doesnt save properly: all i see is cars on the starting line all the replay.
i saved during championship. finish championship shows up on replay menu. odd

fps drops in garden are only with all cars (meaning heavy rendering) i got 115!!fps at one point. max fps are acquired by being alone looking the opposite side of the dolphin.
probably CPU is struggling with sound more than anything i think. (noticed big drops on the "bloated" passage)

being absolutely alone with objects disabled (edit mode) ensures fps stability, phantom, please try it on your computers and see if it works better.

garden 12 player "slide" on start made me 10 fps. pause menu 26 fps.
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

24 Aug 2015, 05:01 PM #135

I don't think you fully understood my message... Anyways, if you don't believe me, try it yourself, add a skymap object (deleting or not clouds doesn't change anything). You will see this ugly Gray Screen for some reasons.

[HIDE][/HIDE]

I also took a picture of it in 1.00 without any modification (other than adding the skymap object to the level).
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

25 Aug 2015, 01:06 AM #136

i have tested, read the last post.

Conclusion it might be related to your setup, maybe pixel shader support (not sure and cant confirm)
but what is your gpu?
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

25 Aug 2015, 09:17 AM #137

This happens to other players too when they put a skymap in the level, and not happens only to me. If doesn't happen to you, please post an image (I believe you anyways, but an image of the waterstreams with a skybox would be appreciated). I use a laptop with double GPU, an nVidia GeForce GT540M 2GB and an internal graphic card that I don't know how it is called. For Re-Volt I use the internal graphic card (less energy consumer, less power) and I can't switch it for some random reasons.
Quote
Like
Share

sebr
Methanolic
sebr
Methanolic
Joined: 29 Jul 2010, 05:26 PM

25 Aug 2015, 11:11 AM #138

Ciccio @ 25 Aug 2015, 10:17 AM wrote: This happens to other players too when they put a skymap in the level, and not happens only to me. If doesn't happen to you, please post an image (I believe you anyways, but an image of the waterstreams with a skybox would be appreciated). I use a laptop with double GPU, an nVidia GeForce GT540M 2GB and an internal graphic card that I don't know how it is called. For Re-Volt I use the internal graphic card (less energy consumer, less power) and I can't switch it for some random reasons.
got the same bug with my nvidia gpu (didn't tryed with my internal graphic card)
with makeitgood i disabled the 2 waterstreams of this place and no bug anymore...

i'll check waterstreams (model "garden 3" & "garden 4") files structure to see if i can found something wrong ... (i hope that the bug is not on the revolt hardcoded part)

look in your nvidia settings, you can set nvidia gpu as default renderer for revolt and all others software you wish
Quote
Like
Share

Ciccio
Regular
Ciccio
Regular
Joined: 5 May 2014, 01:36 PM

25 Aug 2015, 12:28 PM #139

I already tried that once but I got an error even with administrator rights.
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

25 Aug 2015, 06:21 PM #140

I'm releasing a new build 15.0825a with several improvements.
rvgl_15.0825a_win32.7z
rvgl_15.0825a_linux.7z
changelog

Spectating mode is now available. International keyboards support is back and this time it should handle virtual keyboard layouts better than before: dead keys (eg, typing ' followed by e to get é) are now working. I have only tested in Linux so far so let us know if it's working on Windows.
Phantom wrote:Moto.wav error is a pain in the a&#036;&#036;! It happened 5 times in a row during my tests, especially after playing the game for a while but sometimes happens even after just 3 tracks, it popped up 5 times even when loading Frontend. I shoud mention my memory was quite full back then.
Very strange.. is it always the moto.wav, never any other file? And after you get this error does the car engine sounds play during race or not?
I have added some log messages in this new build..if you get it again (with this build), finish the session and then upload the log file, hopefully we'll know what is wrong.
Phantom wrote:New bug, I tried to complete the game and I'm stuck because I can't do Silver Cup. Beating Bronze track doesn't really unlock Silver Cup.
Fixed this one.
Quote
Like
Share

VaiDuX461
Methanolic
VaiDuX461
Methanolic
Joined: 2 Jul 2011, 04:02 PM

25 Aug 2015, 06:42 PM #141

Huki @ 25 Aug 2015, 09:21 PM wrote: Very strange.. is it always the moto.wav, never any other file? And after you get this error does the car engine sounds play during race or not?
Always moto.wav. Sounds are working fine even after this error message.
Few days ago, I've got the same error when I was loading frontend (going back from race). It told it couldn't load into slot 0. I was not using media player this time, and it was offline too. Checking log, no error messages related to this.
I will try reproducing error with the new version.
aka VaidX47, Vaid
--------------------
>[MediaFire Stuff]< | >[Steam Profile]<
Quote
Like
Share

Abc
100% Proofer
Abc
100% Proofer
Joined: 7 Apr 2009, 06:43 PM

25 Aug 2015, 09:51 PM #142

with skybox and nothing else all i get is the actual skybox overlapping with clouds.
All i have is the skybox flickering with clouds, no matter what. i guess its pretty obvious for a screenshot: imagine it yourself: the clouds and skybox overlap.
i have a EVGA NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760 Super Clocked w/ ACX cooler 2gb GDDR5 Pretty high end? maybe that's why i can handle it.... actually its odd because i tested with my other computer, its amd radeon hd 6250....
Going to try with my superpc:
Two weird things: No sky bug except heavy flickering from clouds.

Added a spinner for the laughs but nothing changed. on netbook i had put wild west skybox but it was toytanic i think, mirrors are see trough. now i tried with nhood sky and i figured that only on garden it has a weird thing (this was without garden fog) the water areas have skybox center printed in it. (i have reshade on the desktop and it doesnt have any buggy effects) the flickering is slightly different.
i guess 1.x is fine. also i found out that if the computer is slow revolt might not show you the replay. (and that replay ends up bugged if you save it, possibly stuck when saving: Screenshots, the cars just move by gravity but their wheels do not move at all that replay also displays Finish Championship because it was saved on championship, using it just returns to frontend)

i noticed in the netbook that the replay turned into all cars in starting line always stopped then teleporting to their final position when they finish one by one.

thanks huki for putting print screen for screenshots to files :D

And here's what i mean by ai crashing and replay issues. (bigvolt had the most glitching in that replay)

NOTE: all screenshots and tests were made with build 15.0814a because the last just released today.

Question: should i apply fix_case and setup to my windows folder? (i have fedora and i could remotely test, one thing i noticed is that some libraries are unavailable :( )
Yes, I'm the ABC block and you can find me in Toy World 1 track! ;)
Reborn as Juest Zungo :P PS: I prefer chatting and i have Steam, Skype, Google and Microsoft account, just ask for it via PM or rarely find me in RVHouse. Also check out my interests.
Quote
Like
Share

urnemanden
... as a Newt
urnemanden
... as a Newt
Joined: 21 Apr 2008, 05:03 PM

26 Aug 2015, 08:37 AM #143

Experiencing some trouble getting rvgl to recognize that I have the libenet library installed.

I tried downloading and compiling from upstream Enet homepage and I tried installing the package provided by arch linux.

So far rvgl is still giving me "error while loading shared libraries: libenet.so.2: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory" after compiling and installing libenet. I have even tried some workarounds to no avail:
  • tried manually creating a link to libenet from /usr/local/lib to /usr/lib/.
  • tried creating a copy of libenet.so.2 from the deb package and put it next to the rvgl binary.
Any assistance is very welcome. I'd like to know where rvgl is looking for the library so I can provide it (is there a verbose mode?). I'm super eager to try rvgl. Do we have gamepad support yet? (:
Quote
Like
Share

Gotolei
Alcoholic
Gotolei
Alcoholic
Joined: 12 Mar 2014, 12:26 AM

26 Aug 2015, 09:02 AM #144

Just to make sure, do you have the 32-bit version of it (libenet2a:i386 in *buntu) installed?

I have it in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libenet.so.2 (symlinked from libenet.so.2.4.2).
Quote
Like
Share

urnemanden
... as a Newt
urnemanden
... as a Newt
Joined: 21 Apr 2008, 05:03 PM

26 Aug 2015, 09:16 AM #145

Gotolei @ 26 Aug 2015, 10:02 AM wrote: Just to make sure, do you have the 32-bit version of it (libenet2a:i386 in *buntu) installed?

I have it in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libenet.so.2 (symlinked from libenet.so.2.4.2).
I didn't. Just tried manually creating that path but still experiencing the same issue hmm..

edit: tested 0 A.D. which depends on enet too and seem to run fine.. o.o
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

26 Aug 2015, 11:59 AM #146

Hi urne,
IIRC, under 64-bit Arch Linux the 32-bit libraries are supposed to be placed in /usr/lib32. Specific lib32 versions are available for some libraries, like this one for libsdl. But enet and alure unfortunately don't provide lib32 versions. From our email conversation a few months ago, this is what you did for alure:
urne wrote:for alure, i couldn't find any lib32 package..So I did a horrible hack which was to download alure for i686 and just manually copy that single *.so into my /usr/lib32 folder.
So perhaps you can try that for enet? Instead of copying the .so you can try symlinking the i686 version into the /usr/lib32 path.

Btw, rvgl doesn't manually search for any libraries. We link to the necessary libraries at compile time and it's your system's so loader that searches for them and outputs those error messages to the terminal.

I presume 0 A.D. provides native 64-bit binaries which simply uses the proper x64 version of libenet, that's why it works out of the box. We don't provide a x64 rvgl for now, but it's definitely planned though.
Quote
Like
Share

urnemanden
... as a Newt
urnemanden
... as a Newt
Joined: 21 Apr 2008, 05:03 PM

27 Aug 2015, 01:14 AM #147

Huki @ 26 Aug 2015, 12:59 PM wrote: Hi urne,
IIRC, under 64-bit Arch Linux the 32-bit libraries are supposed to be placed in /usr/lib32. Specific lib32 versions are available for some libraries, like this one for libsdl. But enet and alure unfortunately don't provide lib32 versions. From our email conversation a few months ago, this is what you did for alure:
urne wrote:for alure, i couldn't find any lib32 package..So I did a horrible hack which was to download alure for i686 and just manually copy that single *.so into my /usr/lib32 folder.
So perhaps you can try that for enet? Instead of copying the .so you can try symlinking the i686 version into the /usr/lib32 path.

Btw, rvgl doesn't manually search for any libraries. We link to the necessary libraries at compile time and it's your system's so loader that searches for them and outputs those error messages to the terminal.

I presume 0 A.D. provides native 64-bit binaries which simply uses the proper x64 version of libenet, that's why it works out of the box. We don't provide a x64 rvgl for now, but it's definitely planned though.
....sorry for wasting your time, yes you're right that did the magic.. :rolleyes: :D


EDIT: So my connection does not allow me to join or host at the moment - guess I'll be cheerleading for NAT-PMP on the sideline for now! :thumbs-up:
Quote
Like
Share

mmudshark
Regular
Joined: 4 Apr 2011, 03:04 AM

27 Aug 2015, 04:50 AM #148

Wed. Aug 26 PDT stock track races with pickups on and 5 players using v15.0814a. We started earlier with 3 racers using v15.0825a but the times were horribly wrong at race end so switched to the earlier version.

I received the moto.wav error when host went to next track (ToyWorld 2). I've had the exact same error several times before (It has never happened with the .0825a yet) but this was the only time I've had to reconnect to the host. Previously it just booted me to desktop and when I click OK I can maximize the game and continue normally.
Only rvgl and gameranger running. No music or any other open programs.



revolt.log
Quote
Like
Share

Huki
... as a Newt
Huki
... as a Newt
Joined: 30 Dec 2006, 04:01 PM

27 Aug 2015, 12:26 PM #149

mmudshark @ 27 Aug 2015, 10:20 AM wrote: Wed. Aug 26 PDT stock track races with pickups on and 5 players using v15.0814a.  We started earlier with 3 racers using v15.0825a but the times were horribly wrong at race end so switched to the earlier version.
I can confirm the bug with race times, I'll be releasing a fixed build in a while.

Edit: The fixed build 15.0827a is released.
rvgl_15.0827a_win32.7z
rvgl_15.0827a_linux.7z
changelog

I also believe the moto.wav error is fixed. After you complete a session with this build, check the log file for lines starting with "AL: ", even if you didn't get the error during the session.
Quote
Like
Share

mmudshark
Regular
Joined: 4 Apr 2011, 03:04 AM

27 Aug 2015, 08:54 PM #150

I late joined Phantom, Cosmo, and Mladen racing the 15.0827a version.
The game play was very good. The final times were all correct and no one had the moto.wav error this session. More racing will be needed to confirm this is fixed but it looks good so far.

AL: Existing OpenAL error in LoadSfx(): 0

Aug. 27 revolt.log
Quote
Like
Share