Is The Net List The Best Build?

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Is The Net List The Best Build?

Hinge
Goblin
Hinge
Goblin
Joined: Mar 13 2013, 10:44 PM

Jan 16 2014, 06:18 AM #1

In another thread, a discussion started on tournament competitive O&G armies. I am familiar with five successful builds, 4 of which won Best Overalls and one made a table 1 appearance. All 5 were different players. The tournaments were the Australian Masters, the SCGT in England, Adepticon in the US, and SAWS and WCGT here on the West Coast of the US. All happened in 2013. I will give a little info on each event as I go. I will do the three lists I can find on the internet now and should have the other two by this weekend.

The goal of this thread is to publish the five lists, examine their similarities to both each other and the "net list" as well as their differences.

SCGT (England)- I understand this is one of the biggest tournaments in England. There is a fairly detailed comp pac but I have not looked at it. I understand the winner played a fair number of WoC opponents. 20-nil scoring

Lord Black orc Warboss, Talisman of preservation, Crown of command, Dragonhelm
Night Goblin Great Shaman, Level 4, ironcurse icon, Shrieking blade
Goblin big boss, BSB, Light armour, Shield, Spider Banner
Night Goblin big boss, Great weapon
Night Goblin big boss, Great weapon
Night Goblin big boss, Great weapon
Orc shaman, Level 2 (35), Dispel scroll
Orc shaman, Level 2
5 Goblin wolf riders, Spears, Shields, Musician
5 Goblin wolf riders, Spears, Shields, Musician
20 Night goblins, Bows, Musician
99 Night goblins, Bows, Full command, Netters, 3x fanatics
8 Common trolls
Mangler squig
Mangler squig
Doom Diver
Doom Diver
Rock lobba
Rock lobba
Pump wagon
Pump Wagon


Adepticon-Largest Tournament in the US Table 1 appearance. No comp.

Savage Orc Great Shaman, L4, Scroll, Iron Curse Icon
NG BigBoss, BSB, std of Disc
Black Orc Big Boss, Warrior Bane, Obsidian Lodestone
38 Savage Big Uns, XHW, FC
35 NG, Std, Mus
3 x 5 Wolf Riders
3 x 1 troll
30 Squigs/20 sguig herders
30 Squigs/20 sguig herders
2x Doom Diver
2 x Rock Lobba
Pump Wagon, Giant Explodin spores, spikey rollers, out rigga
Pupmp wagon, giant exploding spores, out rigga
2 x Mangler

WCGT- Located in Southern California. 46 players. No comp. W/L/D

Goblin Warboss, Fencer's Blades, Talisman of Preservation, Potion of Strength
Night Goblin Warboss, Great Cave Squig , Sword of Anti Heroes, Armour of Destiny, Dragonbane Gem, The Other Trickster's Shard
NIght Goblin Big Boss, BSB, GW, Armour of Silvered Steel
Night Goblin Shaman, L2, Scroll
Night Goblin Shaman, Siverjir's Hex Scroll
40 Night Goblins, std, mus, nets, fanatic
30 Night Goblins, std, mus, nets, fanatic
30 Night Goblins, std, mus, nets, fanatic
30 Night Goblins, std, mus, nets, fanatic
20 Night Goblins, std, mus, bows, fanatic
20 Night Goblins, std, mus, bows, fanatic
20 Night Goblins, std, mus, bows, fanatic
8 Squig Hoppers
2x Spear chukka
2 x Giant
2 x Mangler

SAWS- 55 Players in Northern Califonia. Hard comp packet. W/L/D

Orc Warboss, Wyvern Sword of Might, ToP, Charmed Shield, Other Tricksters Shard
Savage Orc Great Shaman, L3, Fencers Blades, Lucky Shrunken Head, PoT of Swiftness

Black Orc BSB, Spell Shield, Tal of Endurance
Night Goblin Shaman, L2, Dispel Scroll
Goblin Big Boss, Giant Wolf, LA, Shield, Shrieking Blade, Dragon Helm

33 Savage Orc Big’uns, FC, XHW
20 Night Goblins, Std, Mus, Nets, 2xfanatics
5 Goblin Wolf Riders, Mus, spear, sh, bow
5 Goblin Wolf Riders, Mus, spear, sh, bow
Troll
Troll
Wolf Chariot
Wolf Chariot
Wolf Chariot
Spear Chukka
Spear Chukka
Doom Diver
Rock Lobba
Mangler Squig
Arachnarok Spider

Australian Masters- Small field but representing most of their top players. List must score between a 12 and 14 on swedish comp. 20-nil scoring.

Black Orc Warboss, 5+ ward, bashers axe of stunty smashing, enchanted shield, other trickers shard
Savage Great Orc Shaman, Level 3, Fencers Blades, Lucky Shruken Head, Dragonbane Gem
Savage Orc Bigboss, BSB, Obsidian Trinket, Great Weapon
Orc Shaman, Level 2, Scroll of Shielding
Goblin Shaman, Level 1, Dispel Scroll, Iron Curse icon
Goblin Big Boss, Wolf, light armour, shield, dragonhelm, shreking blade, potion of foolhardiness
23 Savage Orcs, biguns, full command, extra hand weapon
28 goblins, banner, musician, shields, 3 nasty skulkers
10 arrow boys, standard
5 Wolf boys, Banner, musician, shields, light armour, bows, spears
18 black orcs, Full command , shields, Banner of Discipline
Wolf Chariot
Wolf Chariot
Orc Chariot
Orc Chariot
Spear Chucker
Stone Thrower
Doom Diver
Mangler Squig
Mangler Squig
Total 2400

AS I said,I will get the other two lists up in the next couple of days.

Lets start making observations about how they would do in the current meta,possible tactics, and what ever else strikes your fancy.

Hinge

PS-he SAWS list is indeed mine so can answer specific questions if need be.
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Joakim
Goblin
Joakim
Goblin
Joined: Nov 17 2013, 12:21 PM

Jan 16 2014, 10:12 AM #2

Nice work in the making! I thing it will be interesting to see the common feature of the lists and perhaps link what function they excel at.

Are there any data on what armies (besides WoC) the armies have played and what the opponent army lists were composed of?
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Joined: Apr 2 2013, 11:18 PM

Jan 16 2014, 01:33 PM #3

i think the 1st list have a common goblins great shaman i think, not night goblin i think that was a mistype.

think you can see most lists have ALOT of drops.
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tinytim84
Goblin
Joined: Aug 23 2013, 01:31 PM

Jan 17 2014, 05:32 AM #4

I feel that how you play your army has a great deal to do with how it does. The net list is easy to play with you can make simple mistakes and still recover. The lists above are more complex and require more thought to play and are less predictable and thus harder to play against. While the net list is very strait forward and for a skilled player easy to counter.

I For one have played with the net list and found it boring and no fun ( I also don't like trolls) So i took a lot of time and game play to find a list that works for my play style and is enjoyable.

I think that is the key anyone can copy a list from the net and play with it how ever if there play style does not mesh with that list then they will not do well with it.
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Joined: Mar 19 2009, 06:19 PM

Jan 17 2014, 07:16 AM #5

I've played the netlist until October, but probably a bit more aggressive than players who want to get the maximum from it. Since my other army is dwarfs, I've been in corners for long enough, with my Orcs I want to smash some face. The results were not bad, but not great either and I finished in the middle of the field in the two tourneys that I participated in.

Then, I used my 'own' list in the last tourney of the year and promptly won that! It includes a Wyvern that's build exactly like Hinge's SAWS list, a NG block with 6 big bosses and a Blorc BB to quell animosity, a NG archer block, a smallish unit of SOBUs, 9 trolls, 2 wolf chariots, 5 levels of Goblin magic and the usual rare selection.

I don't think that my list is BETTER than the netlist, but here are some reasons why I think that *I* did better with my own list than with the netlist:
  • I've a lot of experience with my Wyvern-list, more than with the netlist.
  • Opponents know the netlist and what it does. They are far less familiar against the Wyvern and Big-boss block and tend to underestimate it.
  • My Wyvernlist suits my playstyle better. If you look at magic, for example, then the typical netlist magic phase consisted of two rounds of Foot of Gork, one of which was scrolled, and the other hopefully did some damage. After that, combat ensued and magic contributed little. The goblin magic is much more useful in these circumstances.
    The wyvern itself allows me to apply support where it's needed the most. With the netlist, if I got into unfavourable combats, there was little I could do to correct that.
If brute force doesn't work, you aren't applying enough of it!
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shaimailan
Goblin
Joined: Feb 12 2013, 05:41 PM

Jan 17 2014, 02:41 PM #6

tinytim84 @ Jan 17 2014, 05:32 AM wrote: I feel that how you play your army has a great deal to do with how it does. The net list is easy to play with you can make simple mistakes and still recover. The lists above are more complex and require more thought to play and are less predictable and thus harder to play against. While the net list is very strait forward and for a skilled player easy to counter.
+1
I do agree on that

plus:
1) all winning lists are differents from netlist and from eachother : surprise factor in a tournament is very important .Probably same winning list will underperform in 2014 events.

2)lists really vary from comp to comp and from scoring system : some lists are full of chaff and they are fine with ETC comp but they can really have hard time with no comp and gw rulebook victory points conditions: 2 dead manglers and you have lost the game !

3) list are nothing without an experienced player: he know perfectly how his army works and how opponent's army do.

4) luckyness : everybody seem to forget this but in a tournament it is important to get good match ups ( both army/player ). And of course dice rolls....

:rolleyes:
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Hinge
Goblin
Hinge
Goblin
Joined: Mar 13 2013, 10:44 PM

Jan 17 2014, 06:31 PM #7

I have updated the last two armies

I absolutely agree with the comments that the best approach is to design a list that fits your play style. I would also add that practice makes perfect. Play as many other people/armies as you can and get in some actual tournament games with the list if at all possible. Push and test and tweak your list to see what it can and cannot do.

I have found that the comp packet, or even no comp has less to do with success with O&G then the scoring system of a particular tourney. W/L/D v. 20-nil is a big difference in my mind. Scenarios and bonus points as well, since you should modify an army to pick up any bonus points.

My goal in publishing the lists was not to suggest copying, rather to high light how five generals took different approaches to a successful outcome. Frankly, the players have likely evolved their lists have, I know mine has (Bows on wolf riders? Those got dropped). I do hope this discussion gets people thinking about what they want to bring to the table.
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arty
Snotling
arty
Snotling
Joined: Jan 18 2014, 12:36 PM

Jan 18 2014, 12:43 PM #8

2013
23-24 Nov
Swedish comp 15
Winner: Robert Johansson – Orc and Goblins




Orc Warboss, Great weapon, Armour of Destiny, The
other tricksters shard/186p
-9

Orc Shaman, Level 2, Sceptre of stability/115p
-8

Orc Shaman, Level 2, Scroll of shielding/115p
-8

Black Orc Big Boss, Battle standard bearer, Warrior
bane, Enchanted shield,
Talisman
of Endurance/155p
-15

Goblin Big Boss, Giant wolf, Light armour, Charmed
shield, Torment blade,
Dragon bane gem/64p
-4

33 Orc Big uns, Shields, FC, Standard of discipline/347p
-20

23 Goblins, Short bows, Standard and musician/100,5p
-1

23 Goblins, Short bows, Standard and musician/100,5p
-1

5 Wolf riders, Spears, Shields/60p
-3

6 Trolls/210p
-16

6 Trolls/210p
-16

Spear chukka/35p
-2 1 wmp

Spear chukka/35p
-2 1 wmp

Spear chukka/35p
-2 1 wmp

Spear chukka/35p
-2 2 wmp

Spear chukka/35p
-2 2 wmp

Spear chukka/35p
-2 2 wmp

33 Black Orcs, FC, Banner of eternal flame/441p
-24

Rock lobba/85p
-
7 3 wmp
12 WMP
-
6
2399 points
15komp

Swedish tourny
Slättarslaget 2014 11-12 Jan
komp 14-20
Winner: Dennis Palmqvist Goblins


Goblin sharman level 3 mounted on arocknockspider med shrine

Goblin warboss sköld spear lightarmour Giantspiderspider 5++

Goblin big boss bsb lightarmour shield standard of disiplin giant spider

Level 1 sharman loadstone wolf

bigboss enchanted shield dragonbanegem luckstone light armour spear Gigantic spider

bigboss dragonhelm terrormask of eei Giganticspider shield lightarmour spear

Level 2 nightgoblin scroll



40 nightgoblins FC nät

3*5 spiderriders spear bow

12 spiderriders FC spear bow

1 spearchcka

1 spearchucka

1 goblinchariot

1 goblinchariot

1 pumpwagon med ignore armoursave

1 giant

1 Arocknockspider
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Gorks_wundapantz
Big Boss
Joined: Jan 31 2010, 02:57 AM

Jan 19 2014, 12:44 AM #9

Welcome to the boards arty! Thanks for posting those two lists, again very different. How big were those tournaments?

Thanks for your efforts Hinge, I do like seeing the variance.

The adepticon lvl 4 shaman had the ironcurse icon - any idea why - was he not in with the SOBUs?

The Australian Masters winner (haigh) was helped by a favourable army swap for two of the rounds - I wonder how the orcs and goblins army played in the hands of the other general? Jaysta? N.I.c.k? Do you know how it went and who had it for the army swap rounds?
For those of you who don't know, the Aussie masters have to play with randomly allocated armies for 2 of the battles, as its to decide " master of warhammer" rather than "master of this particular list"

I enjoy seeing our monsters in successful lists, wyverns, aroks, giants - they're often maligned as useless, and as cannon bait. Are they surviving because comp inflates their value, particularly with war machines being heavily regulated, or is the new monster mash meta improving their impact, because there are less infantry blocks to fit in chimeras etc, or the damage potential of thump with club and envenomed surge allows them to regain their points?

All very interesting.
Also I am a goblin now. this means i will need a signature. better make it a good one.
Da Blogga:

Grimgor says shut up and die
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Joined: Apr 2 2013, 11:18 PM

Jan 20 2014, 06:19 PM #10

i haven't run the net list that much but i also find it struggles against MSU such as teh current DE MSU, our artillery is great against hard targets but on units such as brolocks, dark riders, harpies and that 3++ peg rider guy, and the like it is rather hit and miss (lol) and kinda of wasted.

The net list can castle up but it will be a very dull game and it will often loose as while MSU can hurt the 3 blocks it will pick of everything else without loosing much in return as the net list lacks mobility, especially if you don't roll foot.

Do you guys agree?
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Gorks_wundapantz
Big Boss
Joined: Jan 31 2010, 02:57 AM

Jan 21 2014, 12:15 AM #11

Malorian (zogging gork, i'm like his cheerleader) address this recently.

rather than deploy in hordes, deploy in long sweeping formations (like 2 ranks of 20 or 3x15 etc) and swing one side up the board. you 'll catch his MSu units and beat them as you go.
Also I am a goblin now. this means i will need a signature. better make it a good one.
Da Blogga:

Grimgor says shut up and die
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Joined: Apr 2 2013, 11:18 PM

Jan 21 2014, 07:21 PM #12

i also watched this video and this is kinda of what i did, trying to create a wall but this doesn't help against flyers. In the game i was referring to the DE player hopped over my lines and killed all my war machines, without the net lists shooting it has a heard time performing.
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Joined: Mar 19 2009, 06:19 PM

Jan 22 2014, 04:29 AM #13

Yeah, that tactic is better suited to the malorian-style 3 hordes list than to the netlist. The netlist should corner up and deploy their warmachines in such a way that the flyers (at least those on 40mm bases) can't land, and other fast troops can't get through them without engaging the blocks.
If brute force doesn't work, you aren't applying enough of it!
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silverbullet
Snotling
Joined: Aug 20 2012, 01:56 AM

Jul 4 2014, 07:41 AM #14

I took second overall at BoLS Con a few weeks ago with a OnG army figured I would add it to this post

The event was 33 players and I played 3 of the top 7 players. Only loss was to the 1st overall.

Savage great shaman Lv4
Tough potion/lucky head/MR2

Black Orc BSB
Bite blade/5++/charm shield

NG shaman Lv2
D-scroll

GBB on giant wolf
Fear sword/dragon helm/pigeon pendent

38 savage big'ns
Music/standard

2x wolf riders
Shield/spear

20 night goblins bows
Music/standard

3x wolf chariots
All separate units

30 squigs 10 handlers

30 squigs 10 handlers

2x manglers

2x doom divers

3x pump wagons
Spiky roller/ giant spores

The event was a masters event so it had a good amount of people shooting for top spots to get the points to qualify.

The armies I played against in order dwarfs(w) daemons(w) skaven(t) WoC(L) lizards(w)

Any questions about how played feel free to ask.
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Joined: Apr 2 2013, 11:18 PM

Jul 4 2014, 11:59 AM #15

congratz, looks like a solid list, how did you deal with large flying monster with out rock lobbas, was that what the pump wagons were for?
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