Kate and Joni, come on I'm curious. Both are an [A] aren't they? *wink*

Kate and Joni, come on I'm curious. Both are an [A] aren't they? *wink*

Joined: September 7th, 2008, 6:50 am

September 7th, 2008, 6:56 am #1

I'm really curious, it's a shame their pages aren't complete.
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Joined: December 21st, 2005, 1:58 am

September 7th, 2008, 8:17 am #2

i respect her music but i cant really listen to it. think it's her voice. blue is her best i think.
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Joined: June 13th, 2005, 5:10 pm

September 7th, 2008, 8:48 am #3

The melodies are all right and some songs really rule ('Clouds', 'My Old Man'), but sitting through a whole JM album spoils the experience, though it's hard to define why.
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Joined: July 9th, 2008, 6:42 pm

September 7th, 2008, 1:54 pm #4

I'm really curious, it's a shame their pages aren't complete.
Joni Mitchell would be a [D] at least, since she has two albums rated at 12 on George's scale, although her page is, as you say, very far from complete.

As for Kate, she has an album rated at 5 stars on the MP3 scale, which as far as I can tell translates into a 14 (see below). This means she'd get at worst a .

Rating Translation Table

<TABLE BORDER=1>
<TR><TD>Full Scale</TD><TD>MP3 Scale</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>15</TD><TD>n/a¹</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>14</TD><TD>*****</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>13</TD><TD>****½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>12</TD><TD>****</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>11</TD><TD>***½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>10</TD><TD>***</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>9</TD><TD>**½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>8</TD><TD>**</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>7</TD><TD>*½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>6</TD><TD>*</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>5</TD><TD>n/a²</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>4</TD><TD>n/a²</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>3</TD><TD>n/a²</TD></TR>
</TABLE>

¹Presumably, George made the assumption (correctly as far as I can tell) that he'd never be able to give a 15 to an album being reviewed in MP3.

²George said somewhere on his site that lesser artists, though they have fewer highs, also tend to have fewer lows. Again, I'm therefore assuming he didn't expect to encounter any "atrocious beyond all imagination" albums from artists he thought only fit to review in MP3!
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Joined: June 13th, 2005, 5:10 pm

September 7th, 2008, 3:24 pm #5

...but it's not THAT simple. For example, Kate's debut was rated with five stars before conversion, and now it gets a 13. Therefore Kate would be a 'class C' artist.

In fact, I think George took some time to relisten to these records when converting them, and he probably changed his mind on some. Anyway, remember that 'a 13 is a 14 in a good day...'
Last edited by Alexis_Macquoy on September 7th, 2008, 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 23rd, 2005, 3:37 pm

September 8th, 2008, 2:06 pm #6

Joni Mitchell would be a [D] at least, since she has two albums rated at 12 on George's scale, although her page is, as you say, very far from complete.

As for Kate, she has an album rated at 5 stars on the MP3 scale, which as far as I can tell translates into a 14 (see below). This means she'd get at worst a .

Rating Translation Table

<TABLE BORDER=1>
<TR><TD>Full Scale</TD><TD>MP3 Scale</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>15</TD><TD>n/a¹</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>14</TD><TD>*****</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>13</TD><TD>****½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>12</TD><TD>****</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>11</TD><TD>***½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>10</TD><TD>***</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>9</TD><TD>**½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>8</TD><TD>**</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>7</TD><TD>*½</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>6</TD><TD>*</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>5</TD><TD>n/a²</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>4</TD><TD>n/a²</TD></TR>
<TR><TD>3</TD><TD>n/a²</TD></TR>
</TABLE>

¹Presumably, George made the assumption (correctly as far as I can tell) that he'd never be able to give a 15 to an album being reviewed in MP3.

²George said somewhere on his site that lesser artists, though they have fewer highs, also tend to have fewer lows. Again, I'm therefore assuming he didn't expect to encounter any "atrocious beyond all imagination" albums from artists he thought only fit to review in MP3!
As a constant reader of George's reviews, I suspect this translation to be the most accurate:
15 - N/A
14 - special cases of ***** (definitely Sparks - Kimono My House, not sure with others)
13 - ***** or ****1/2
12 - ****1/2 (seldom) or **** (usually)
11 - ***1/2
10 - ***
9 - **1/2
8 - **
6-7 - *1/2
4-5 - *
Of course, if George will decide to convert some pages, he'll relisten and change his opinions somehow.
Last edited by nikita111 on September 8th, 2008, 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 9th, 2008, 6:42 pm

September 8th, 2008, 9:24 pm #7

WARNING: These should be taken with a grain of salt. A tilde in front of a rating (ie. ~12) indicates a translation from the MP3 scale. Note that I've had to add an F rating, which George never got around to doing! (Although he did mention the possibility, saying "wouldn't that be fun?")

POP ROCK:

Manfred Mann: D -- Best album: Mighty Garvey (12)
Cheap Trick: D -- Best album: Heaven Tonight (12)
Eurythmics: C -- Best album: In the Garden (13)
INXS: E -- Best album: Listen Like Thieves (~11)
Midnight Oil: D -- almost all their albums got ~12
Wilco: C -- Best album: Being There (13)

SMART POP:

Sparks: B -- Best album: Kimono My House (~14)
Oingo Boingo: C -- Best album: Good for Your Soul (~13)
XTC: C -- Best album: Black Sea (~13)

LUSH POP:

Carole King: C -- Best album: Tapestry (13)
The Carpenters: E -- Best album: Passage (~11)

DANCE POP:

Michael Jackson: E -- Rather a lot of ~11's, which is understandable.
Prince: C -- Best album: Controversy (~13)

SYNTH POP:

Asia: E -- Best album: Asia (11)
Depeche Mode: C -- Best album: Black Celebration (~13)
Duran Duran: E -- Best album: Duran Duran (11)

RHYTHM & BLUES:

Alvin Lee: D -- Best album: In Flight (~12)
Flamin Groovies: D -- Best album: Supersnazz or Teenage Head (both 12)

HARD ROCK:

Aerosmith: D -- Best album: Rocks (12)
Bad Company: E -- Best album: Bad Company (11)
Blue Cheer: E -- Best album: Outsideinside (11)
Kiss: E -- Best album: Alive! (~11)
Slade: D -- Best album: Old New Borrowed And Blue (~12)
Heart: C -- Best album: Dreamboat Annie (13)
Motörhead: D -- three of their albums get ~12

HEAVY METAL

Nazareth: C -- Best album: Nazareth (~13)
Rainbow: C -- Best album: Live In Germany (~13)
Iron Maiden: C -- Best album: Live After Death (~13)
Judas Priest: D -- as in Motörhead's case, no fewer than three ~12's!
Ozzy Osbourne: E -- almost everything gets a ~11.
Slayer: F
Van Halen: C -- Best album: 1984 (~13)

ARENA ROCK

Styx: E -- Best album: Equinox (~11)
Sweet: F
Boston: E -- Best album: Boston (11)
Foreigner: F
U2: D -- Best album: The Unforgettable Fire (12)

PUNK & GRUNGE

Iggy Pop: C -- Best album: New Values (~13)
Nina Hagen: C -- Best album: Nunsexmonkrock (~13)
Nirvana: C -- Best album: Nevermind (~13)
The Sex Pistols: Very weak D -- Best album: The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle (~12)

PSYCHEDELIA

Hawkwind: C -- Best album: Space Ritual (~13)

ART ROCK

Jack Bruce: F
Manfred Mann's Earth Band: D -- one helluva lot of ~12's!
Mike Oldfield: Possible B -- Best album: Tubular Bells (~ high 13 / low 14)
Supertramp: E -- nearly everything gets ~11!!! See for yourself.
Todd Rundgren: D -- Best album: Ra (12)
Uriah Heep: E -- Best album: Look At Yourself (~11)
Kate Bush: C -- Best album: The Dreaming (~13)
Klaatu: D -- Best album: Sir Army Suit (12)

PROG ROCK

Barclay James Harvest: D -- Best album: Barclay James Harvest And Other Stories (~12)
Camel: C -- Best album: Breathless (~13)
Focus: E -- Best album: Hamburger Concerto (11)
Kansas: F -- George has even said that these guys are his least favourite band of all!!!
Rick Wakeman: C -- Best album: Criminal Record (~13)
Rush: D -- Best album: Moving Pictures (~12)
Alan Parsons Project: C -- Best album: I Robot (~13)
Marillion: D -- Best album: Misplaced Childhood (~12)

AVANTGARDE

John Cale: D -- Best album: Fear (~12)
Coil: C -- Best album: Horse Rotorvator (13)
Current '93: E -- Best album: Dogs Blood Rising (~11)
Einstürzende Neubauten: D -- Best album: Five On The Open-Ended Richter Scale (~12)

MOOD MUSIC

Eloy: E -- Best album: Dawn (11)

FOLK ROCK

Donovan: C -- Best album: A Gift From a Flower to a Garden (13)
R.E.M.: C -- Best album: Murmur (~13)
Tom Petty: D -- Best album: Southern Accents (~12)

ROOTS ROCK

The Band: C -- Best album: Music from Big Pink (13)
Rory Gallagher: C -- Best album: Tattoo (~13)
Spirit: D -- Best album: Spirit (12)
Steamhammer: E -- Best album: Mountains (11)
Steppenwolf: E -- Best album: Steppenwolf (11)
ZZ Top: D -- Best album: Eliminator (~12)

CELTIC & MEDIEVAL

Clannad: D -- Best album: Clannad II (~12)
Fairport Convention: D -- Best album: Liege and Lief (12)

JAZZ ROCK

Brand X: D -- Best album: Unorthodox Behaviour (12)

FUNK & R'n'B

Funkadelic: D -- Best album: Maggot Brain (12)
Sly & The Family Stone: C -- Best album: Stand! (13)

SOUL

Joe Cocker: D -- Best album: With a Little Help From My Friends (~12)

ELECTRONICA

Klaus Schulze: High C -- Best album: X (~13+)
Kraftwerk: C -- Best album: The Man Machine (~13)
Tangerine Dream: D -- Best album: Stratosfear (~12)
Vangelis: D -- Best album: Heaven and Hell (~12)

SINGER-SONGWRITERS

Joni Mitchell: D -- Best album: Song to a Seagull (12)
Leonard Cohen: D -- Best album: Songs of Leonard Cohen (12)
Paul Simon: C -- Best album: Graceland (~13)
Peter Hammill: C -- Best album: The Future Now (~13)
Elvis Costello: C -- Best album: Get Happy!! (13)
Sinead O'Connor: D -- Best album: The Lion and the Cobra (~12)

MOPE ROCK

Nico: D -- Best album: The End (12)
Siouxsie & The Banshees: C -- Best album: Juju (~13)
Swans: questionable E -- Best "album": Greed / Holy Money (reviewed as one "album", rated 11)

GUITAR HEROES

Santana: C -- Best album: Caravanserai (~13)
Gary Moore: D -- Best album: We Want Moore (12)
Stevie Ray Vaughan: D -- Best album: Texas Flood (~12)

Nearly done...

META-ROCK

Pere Ubu: C -- Best album: The Modern Dance (13)

Done!

Is this the longest post in the whole history of the site?
Last edited by TheGuyWithTheAxe on September 9th, 2008, 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 22nd, 2005, 5:49 pm

September 9th, 2008, 6:37 am #8

on a lot of those pages george hasnt reviewed the entire discography which leaves some of your inferences flawed. He never got past XTC's Big Express which leaves out some of their all time best albums. They're a very likely B. Similarily, George skipped a lot of Todd Rundgrens best albums so i'd say he's a likely C

and where are you getting some of these ratings from? george gave "the modern dance" a 13.
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Joined: December 13th, 2006, 4:43 am

September 9th, 2008, 9:17 am #9

WARNING: These should be taken with a grain of salt. A tilde in front of a rating (ie. ~12) indicates a translation from the MP3 scale. Note that I've had to add an F rating, which George never got around to doing! (Although he did mention the possibility, saying "wouldn't that be fun?")

POP ROCK:

Manfred Mann: D -- Best album: Mighty Garvey (12)
Cheap Trick: D -- Best album: Heaven Tonight (12)
Eurythmics: C -- Best album: In the Garden (13)
INXS: E -- Best album: Listen Like Thieves (~11)
Midnight Oil: D -- almost all their albums got ~12
Wilco: C -- Best album: Being There (13)

SMART POP:

Sparks: B -- Best album: Kimono My House (~14)
Oingo Boingo: C -- Best album: Good for Your Soul (~13)
XTC: C -- Best album: Black Sea (~13)

LUSH POP:

Carole King: C -- Best album: Tapestry (13)
The Carpenters: E -- Best album: Passage (~11)

DANCE POP:

Michael Jackson: E -- Rather a lot of ~11's, which is understandable.
Prince: C -- Best album: Controversy (~13)

SYNTH POP:

Asia: E -- Best album: Asia (11)
Depeche Mode: C -- Best album: Black Celebration (~13)
Duran Duran: E -- Best album: Duran Duran (11)

RHYTHM & BLUES:

Alvin Lee: D -- Best album: In Flight (~12)
Flamin Groovies: D -- Best album: Supersnazz or Teenage Head (both 12)

HARD ROCK:

Aerosmith: D -- Best album: Rocks (12)
Bad Company: E -- Best album: Bad Company (11)
Blue Cheer: E -- Best album: Outsideinside (11)
Kiss: E -- Best album: Alive! (~11)
Slade: D -- Best album: Old New Borrowed And Blue (~12)
Heart: C -- Best album: Dreamboat Annie (13)
Motörhead: D -- three of their albums get ~12

HEAVY METAL

Nazareth: C -- Best album: Nazareth (~13)
Rainbow: C -- Best album: Live In Germany (~13)
Iron Maiden: C -- Best album: Live After Death (~13)
Judas Priest: D -- as in Motörhead's case, no fewer than three ~12's!
Ozzy Osbourne: E -- almost everything gets a ~11.
Slayer: F
Van Halen: C -- Best album: 1984 (~13)

ARENA ROCK

Styx: E -- Best album: Equinox (~11)
Sweet: F
Boston: E -- Best album: Boston (11)
Foreigner: F
U2: D -- Best album: The Unforgettable Fire (12)

PUNK & GRUNGE

Iggy Pop: C -- Best album: New Values (~13)
Nina Hagen: C -- Best album: Nunsexmonkrock (~13)
Nirvana: C -- Best album: Nevermind (~13)
The Sex Pistols: Very weak D -- Best album: The Great Rock'n'Roll Swindle (~12)

PSYCHEDELIA

Hawkwind: C -- Best album: Space Ritual (~13)

ART ROCK

Jack Bruce: F
Manfred Mann's Earth Band: D -- one helluva lot of ~12's!
Mike Oldfield: Possible B -- Best album: Tubular Bells (~ high 13 / low 14)
Supertramp: E -- nearly everything gets ~11!!! See for yourself.
Todd Rundgren: D -- Best album: Ra (12)
Uriah Heep: E -- Best album: Look At Yourself (~11)
Kate Bush: C -- Best album: The Dreaming (~13)
Klaatu: D -- Best album: Sir Army Suit (12)

PROG ROCK

Barclay James Harvest: D -- Best album: Barclay James Harvest And Other Stories (~12)
Camel: C -- Best album: Breathless (~13)
Focus: E -- Best album: Hamburger Concerto (11)
Kansas: F -- George has even said that these guys are his least favourite band of all!!!
Rick Wakeman: C -- Best album: Criminal Record (~13)
Rush: D -- Best album: Moving Pictures (~12)
Alan Parsons Project: C -- Best album: I Robot (~13)
Marillion: D -- Best album: Misplaced Childhood (~12)

AVANTGARDE

John Cale: D -- Best album: Fear (~12)
Coil: C -- Best album: Horse Rotorvator (13)
Current '93: E -- Best album: Dogs Blood Rising (~11)
Einstürzende Neubauten: D -- Best album: Five On The Open-Ended Richter Scale (~12)

MOOD MUSIC

Eloy: E -- Best album: Dawn (11)

FOLK ROCK

Donovan: C -- Best album: A Gift From a Flower to a Garden (13)
R.E.M.: C -- Best album: Murmur (~13)
Tom Petty: D -- Best album: Southern Accents (~12)

ROOTS ROCK

The Band: C -- Best album: Music from Big Pink (13)
Rory Gallagher: C -- Best album: Tattoo (~13)
Spirit: D -- Best album: Spirit (12)
Steamhammer: E -- Best album: Mountains (11)
Steppenwolf: E -- Best album: Steppenwolf (11)
ZZ Top: D -- Best album: Eliminator (~12)

CELTIC & MEDIEVAL

Clannad: D -- Best album: Clannad II (~12)
Fairport Convention: D -- Best album: Liege and Lief (12)

JAZZ ROCK

Brand X: D -- Best album: Unorthodox Behaviour (12)

FUNK & R'n'B

Funkadelic: D -- Best album: Maggot Brain (12)
Sly & The Family Stone: C -- Best album: Stand! (13)

SOUL

Joe Cocker: D -- Best album: With a Little Help From My Friends (~12)

ELECTRONICA

Klaus Schulze: High C -- Best album: X (~13+)
Kraftwerk: C -- Best album: The Man Machine (~13)
Tangerine Dream: D -- Best album: Stratosfear (~12)
Vangelis: D -- Best album: Heaven and Hell (~12)

SINGER-SONGWRITERS

Joni Mitchell: D -- Best album: Song to a Seagull (12)
Leonard Cohen: D -- Best album: Songs of Leonard Cohen (12)
Paul Simon: C -- Best album: Graceland (~13)
Peter Hammill: C -- Best album: The Future Now (~13)
Elvis Costello: C -- Best album: Get Happy!! (13)
Sinead O'Connor: D -- Best album: The Lion and the Cobra (~12)

MOPE ROCK

Nico: D -- Best album: The End (12)
Siouxsie & The Banshees: C -- Best album: Juju (~13)
Swans: questionable E -- Best "album": Greed / Holy Money (reviewed as one "album", rated 11)

GUITAR HEROES

Santana: C -- Best album: Caravanserai (~13)
Gary Moore: D -- Best album: We Want Moore (12)
Stevie Ray Vaughan: D -- Best album: Texas Flood (~12)

Nearly done...

META-ROCK

Pere Ubu: C -- Best album: The Modern Dance (13)

Done!

Is this the longest post in the whole history of the site?
Agree:-

Carole King
Depeche Mode
Duran Duran
Sly & Stone
Kate Bush
Rush
Marillion
Paul Simon
SRV

Disagree:-
XTC - Skylarking
Prince - Around the World in a Day
Iron Maiden - Powerslave
U2 - Zooropa
Kraftwerk - The Mix
Elvis Costello - King of America
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Joined: July 9th, 2008, 6:42 pm

September 9th, 2008, 1:37 pm #10

on a lot of those pages george hasnt reviewed the entire discography which leaves some of your inferences flawed. He never got past XTC's Big Express which leaves out some of their all time best albums. They're a very likely B. Similarily, George skipped a lot of Todd Rundgrens best albums so i'd say he's a likely C

and where are you getting some of these ratings from? george gave "the modern dance" a 13.
Thanks for the correction re The Modern Dance: I shall amend my post immediately!
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