About Enhancement, Physical Damages, No Damage

Joined: August 11th, 2015, 5:22 pm

September 21st, 2017, 11:07 pm #1

Hello I would like to share some possible bug about magical weapons and properties I found, not sure if it was intended behavior or not.

After buying the new sling Sunlight Seeker in the Carnival merchant and testing it I realized that some damages were missing. So I tried to investigate on that weapons and other existing weapons to understand why.

About the Sunlight Seeker:
Properties :
Sling (1d4) Bludgeoning (str bonus apply to damages for slings)
+2d8 Bludgeoning
+5 enhancement
+1d6 divine
+1 attack against undead
+8 attack against undead
(the two last properties are kinda useless and not relevant for the test)

what the sheet say when you handle it :
1d4+str bonus (9 for me while holding a shield)
+1d6 divine
+2d8 Bludgeoning

So first it seems the +5 Bludgeoning damages from enhancement doesn't appear.

To be sure I tried the weapon with basic bullets against a training dummy.
I will only count the physical damages for the calculation.

according to the weapon description : 1d4+2d8+5+9(str) = min 17, med 25.5 max 34
according to the sheet : 1d4+2d8+9=min 12 med 20.5 max 29
according to the test : min 13 medium (on 51 hit) 20,37 max 29

So for me it's seems the sheet is accurate, and the +5 Bludgeoning for enhancement doesn't stack with the +2d8 Bludgeoning, but that the 1d4 Bludgeoning of basic damage of the weapon indeed stack.

I also tried different bullets, the one with +1d6 Bludgeoning doesn't stack, while the one with +1d6 slashing stack.
Also on a normal sling you can add a +5 enhancement that effectively give +5 attack and +5 Bludgeoning damages.

According to the person who made that weapon it seems the +2d8 was supposed to override the 1d4 and not the +5.
A solution for me to keep a weapon of the same power (because it's a really expensive one) would be to change the +2d8 Bludgeoning to +2d6 piercing, that way it doesn't override the +5 Bludgeoning damages from enhancement or the 1d4 but since it's 2d6 it keep the same damages than what was intended.

In a second time we tried to understand if the property No Damage on some weapon would fix that problem, for example by allowing the 1D6 or 2D6 slashing or piercing damages added to override the normal damages of the weapon instead of the +5 damages from enhancement.
We tried the wild blade, flash, Arrow cutter who all have the No Damage ability on training dummies to determine the damages minimum medium and maximum of each weapon and see how it works.

We ended with the conclusion that No Damage remove the basic damages of the weapon as intended but doesn't do anything about preventing 2D6 slashing (wild blade) or 2D12 slashing (arrow cutter) damages to not stack with the +5 physical damages from enhancement.

So basically for all the weapons in game who have enhancement and a physical damages bonus of the same type that the weapon basic damage type, one of the two damages bonus doesn't apply, and that even if the sheet show the two properties (it's just a visual bug).

So the no damage property shouldn't be used unless you really want to deny the base physical damage of a weapon due to weapon concept.
So, use a different type of physical damage for any bonus damage other than the weapon base damage type.

And that's all for now, thanks for reading.
Last edited by Arwendil on September 21st, 2017, 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joined: April 23rd, 2015, 10:47 pm

September 22nd, 2017, 3:07 am #2

So, enhancement bonus on ranged weapons is a little wonky. AFAIK; For ranged weapons that use ammunition such as slings, bows and crossbows - it only applies to AB, not damage.

Throwing weapons, I believe work as standard weapons - though it's been a while since I've used either thrown or ranged weapons.

When stacking multiple bonus damage types, only the highest die of a single type will apply.

For instance, if you had a 1d8 longsword with both 1d6 slashing and 2d6 slashing, it would only get 2d6 slashing total. That's why the extra bludgeoning bullets don't stack, although +5 Sling bullets should.

Base weapon damage does not count in this equation, so you'll always get your base weapon damage UNLESS

It has the no weapon damage modifier.

There are several weapons on the server that work like this to alter the given base damage of a weapon. So this is important to keep in mind when looking at the weapon damage. Despite this, many of the weapons with this property are still quite powerful.

The character sheet can be a bit of a liar sometimes.

For instance, duelists get a 1d6/2d6 bonus damage to piercing weapons, but the sheet will just randomly pick a value between 1d6/2d6 every time the weapon is equipped.

Another instance is it calculating the +5 Enhancement bonus to ranged weapon damage, although it shouldn't - as only the ammunition of these weapons grants enhancement bonus to damage.

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Joined: August 11th, 2015, 5:22 pm

September 22nd, 2017, 5:23 pm #3

Ranged weapon and enhancement are indeed tricky.

On a ranged weapon enhancement work but the damages added by enchantment doesn't stack with the damages that you can get with a +1 or +5 ammunition, because the ammunition give a bonus of the same type than the enhancement and they don't stack.

But you can perfectly decide to take for example a bow +5 enhancement to use it with a fire arrow who stack, so you are will have +5 slashing +1d6 fire.

For that particular sling Sunlight Seeker the problem isn't that the +5 enhancement doesn't stack with the bullets, it's normal and you can pick a fire bullet for example, the problem,for me, is that the two enchantment of the weapon (+5 enhancement and +2d8 Bludgeoning) doesn't stack together for the damages. So it's like if the sling was in fact +5 attack +2d8 bludgeoning but for the price of a +5 enhancement (and since it's not a drop but an item sold by a merchant for 450k it kind count).
So that sling is the most expensive sling of the server but the damages are more or less the same than a craft +5 enhancement +2d6 elemental damage.

For the other weapons around with the same kind of enchantment (no damages + some slashing/piercing damages to replace) I think they are averagely powerful, when you look at them they aren't on the best weapons of the server I think, but they are droppable so it's not a problem if you drop them it's still better than nothing.

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