Beta In - BFN confirmed

Beta In - BFN confirmed

Sara Q
Sara Q

May 31st, 2011, 11:05 pm #1

Hi Ladies,


I just wanted to let you all know that I got my beta about 2 hours ago and it is indeed a BFN. Sorry I didn't write too many personal replies to your kind posts yesterday; I've just been emotionally spent. I really do appreciate you all so much.

It's starting to sink in a little more and I am not just sad; I am ANGRY. (Has anyone else felt this way?) I have had 3 failed IVFs (no chemical pregnancies- nothing) in less than 8 months and they don't understand why. If they knew for sure it was my eggs, then I'd move on to donor, but who knows if those would stick either? I've consulted with Dr. Zouves and had most of the immunology tests done that they do at SIRM - all of them came out negative except for MTHFR. I am having my WTF appointment with my RE tomorrow as much as I think she wants me to succeed, her approach is to "just keep trying." If she were me, she says, she wouldn't move to donor yet. (But I'd bet my darling puppy that she has a lot more money to spend than we do....) We're definately, definately changing clinics but how do I pick one? I want someone who will try to actually find the root of the problem, not just shake their head and say "this is very unusual for someone so young." (Yes, I know. It's very unique but for once I just want to be average...)

Do you ladies this going with someone like CCRM who does 5-day freezing and chromosomal screenings is the best bet? Or someone like Dr. Check? I live in northern California.....


Thankful for this forum,
Sara Q
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Joined: November 11th, 2010, 2:23 am

May 31st, 2011, 11:19 pm #2

Hi Sara,
So sorry to hear this. I was hoping with that awesome fert. report this cycle would be ur lucky one. I personally don't think its ur eggs...the quality of the embryos shows that - I think its more to do with the uterine environment and the implantation. what does ur current RE say? also I am curious to know why he felt he needed to transfer all 5 embryos? isn't 2 the norm?

I live in Northern Ca too and I am seeing Dr. Milki in Stanford. He is very high FSH friendly...not sure if you want to consult him?

Anyhow whatever u decide to do I want to tell you its not your fault and you should NEVER think that way. I still feel you have a solid chance its only the matter (altho very important) matter of finding the right way to prepare your uterus to receive the embryos.

Big hugs to you...

gisg
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Anonymous
Anonymous

May 31st, 2011, 11:33 pm #3

Hi Gisg,

Thanks so much for your message. The funny thing is that I'm at Stanford too! Maybe I've seen you there! Dr. Westphal is my doctor though. She's been good to me, but I think it's time for a change at this point. She actually got pregnant with high FSH herself and at the beginning I think she thought it wouldn't be that hard to get my pregnant - that it would work with IUI. But obviously that has not been the case and we don't know why, which is the frustrating part. I think she wanted to put in all 5 because she didn't think the 2 5-cell ones had much of a chance.

I think it may be a uterine envirnoment problem too but for the life of me I have no idea what that might mean. I had a normal hysteroscopy back in December and my lining is always somewhere between 9 and 10 at the time of transfer. Does anyone know what other problems there can be with the uterine environment? Katie led me to an interesting article, which was a case study where they hypothesized that a woman's uterus was rejecting the embryos because of all the FSH meds in her system, but there doesn't seem to be any way to test for this without just doing trail and error. (Which I'd be happy to do if our insurance covered IVF, but it doesn't..

I'm sorry if my tone sounds frantic. (At least it does in the voice in my head.) I just really don't know which path to go down in this choose your own adventure story. I was telling DH the other day that I missed the days when the hardest decision we made was were to eat at night....

I'm meeting with Dr. Westphal tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see what she says. In the meantime I'm reading as much as I can about repeated implantation failure so I'll be ready with questions.

Take care,
Sara Q
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Sara Q
Sara Q

May 31st, 2011, 11:34 pm #4

not anon above - from me
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Tanya
Tanya

June 1st, 2011, 12:04 am #5

Hi Ladies,


I just wanted to let you all know that I got my beta about 2 hours ago and it is indeed a BFN. Sorry I didn't write too many personal replies to your kind posts yesterday; I've just been emotionally spent. I really do appreciate you all so much.

It's starting to sink in a little more and I am not just sad; I am ANGRY. (Has anyone else felt this way?) I have had 3 failed IVFs (no chemical pregnancies- nothing) in less than 8 months and they don't understand why. If they knew for sure it was my eggs, then I'd move on to donor, but who knows if those would stick either? I've consulted with Dr. Zouves and had most of the immunology tests done that they do at SIRM - all of them came out negative except for MTHFR. I am having my WTF appointment with my RE tomorrow as much as I think she wants me to succeed, her approach is to "just keep trying." If she were me, she says, she wouldn't move to donor yet. (But I'd bet my darling puppy that she has a lot more money to spend than we do....) We're definately, definately changing clinics but how do I pick one? I want someone who will try to actually find the root of the problem, not just shake their head and say "this is very unusual for someone so young." (Yes, I know. It's very unique but for once I just want to be average...)

Do you ladies this going with someone like CCRM who does 5-day freezing and chromosomal screenings is the best bet? Or someone like Dr. Check? I live in northern California.....


Thankful for this forum,
Sara Q
Again I am so sorry Sara. I recall when I consulted with dr check him telling me about a patient who had gone through multiple ivf cycles with no success. He froze the embryos and put them back another time and she finally had success. It had something to o with the meds in her system.
Hopefully someone else will chime in
In th meantime I'm digging thru my stacks of paper trying to find it for you
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Joined: January 13th, 2011, 3:54 pm

June 1st, 2011, 12:19 am #6

Hi Ladies,


I just wanted to let you all know that I got my beta about 2 hours ago and it is indeed a BFN. Sorry I didn't write too many personal replies to your kind posts yesterday; I've just been emotionally spent. I really do appreciate you all so much.

It's starting to sink in a little more and I am not just sad; I am ANGRY. (Has anyone else felt this way?) I have had 3 failed IVFs (no chemical pregnancies- nothing) in less than 8 months and they don't understand why. If they knew for sure it was my eggs, then I'd move on to donor, but who knows if those would stick either? I've consulted with Dr. Zouves and had most of the immunology tests done that they do at SIRM - all of them came out negative except for MTHFR. I am having my WTF appointment with my RE tomorrow as much as I think she wants me to succeed, her approach is to "just keep trying." If she were me, she says, she wouldn't move to donor yet. (But I'd bet my darling puppy that she has a lot more money to spend than we do....) We're definately, definately changing clinics but how do I pick one? I want someone who will try to actually find the root of the problem, not just shake their head and say "this is very unusual for someone so young." (Yes, I know. It's very unique but for once I just want to be average...)

Do you ladies this going with someone like CCRM who does 5-day freezing and chromosomal screenings is the best bet? Or someone like Dr. Check? I live in northern California.....


Thankful for this forum,
Sara Q
Oh you bet I've been angry. I can't tell you the number of times in this process that I have been absolutely furious. Strangely, I think that might be part of what keeps me fighting. I'm so so sorry Sara. But I can hear that you've got a lot of fight left in you
CCRM is considered the best because they leave no stone unturned and their practice is based on the most cutting edge technique.
There is a rather famous RE who is outside of the country who happens to sort of be a family friend who I have been consulting with in a very unofficial way. Just sending records and daily reports and getting his feedback on my progress. With that cryptic preamble, let me tell you what he says. He says that sperm DNA frag tests are a standard part of treatment in the rest of the world. He says that all top clinics use some type of sperm DNA sorting technique (like PICSI) to weed out the chromosomally abnormal sperm. He says that FSH testing is obsolete. He says it is pretty much a given to bring all embryos to day 5 blast before ET or freezing.
Now, without giving away too much about this man, let me just say that he is a genius in the RE world. And what is interesting is that CCRM applies most of these techniques as standard protocol and they are considered one of the best in the country.
My guess is that there are MANY more techniques that most of our docs are missing. The US tend to be so very behind the times in terms of clinical practice.
I think that if you wanted to do natural cycle, then go with Check. But I think you have shown that you respond well to IVF. So I think you've got to head to a place that is the best at IVF. I think you should try to see if you can send over your records to CCRM and do a consult with them. See if they would be willing to make some recommendations.
Have you done the Sperm DNA frag test? For me, checking that, the immune issues in the uterine environment, and possibly later doing chromosomal screening would be the most obvious things.
I'm sure you have been screened for fragile x and whatnot.
Hang in there Sara. And keep posting to tell us what is happening.
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Mrs. A
Mrs. A

June 1st, 2011, 12:21 am #7

Again I am so sorry Sara. I recall when I consulted with dr check him telling me about a patient who had gone through multiple ivf cycles with no success. He froze the embryos and put them back another time and she finally had success. It had something to o with the meds in her system.
Hopefully someone else will chime in
In th meantime I'm digging thru my stacks of paper trying to find it for you
I recently had a callback with Dr. Check on a matter related to my PG and asked him what his thought was on why I got PG naturally vs. zero success after 9 cycles of insanity and he said if he had to pick one reason it was due to the effect the meds had on my uterine environment. This echoed the same thought that the Cooper nurse had given me months prior when I asked her the same Q.
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Mrs. A
Mrs. A

June 1st, 2011, 12:42 am #8

Hi Ladies,


I just wanted to let you all know that I got my beta about 2 hours ago and it is indeed a BFN. Sorry I didn't write too many personal replies to your kind posts yesterday; I've just been emotionally spent. I really do appreciate you all so much.

It's starting to sink in a little more and I am not just sad; I am ANGRY. (Has anyone else felt this way?) I have had 3 failed IVFs (no chemical pregnancies- nothing) in less than 8 months and they don't understand why. If they knew for sure it was my eggs, then I'd move on to donor, but who knows if those would stick either? I've consulted with Dr. Zouves and had most of the immunology tests done that they do at SIRM - all of them came out negative except for MTHFR. I am having my WTF appointment with my RE tomorrow as much as I think she wants me to succeed, her approach is to "just keep trying." If she were me, she says, she wouldn't move to donor yet. (But I'd bet my darling puppy that she has a lot more money to spend than we do....) We're definately, definately changing clinics but how do I pick one? I want someone who will try to actually find the root of the problem, not just shake their head and say "this is very unusual for someone so young." (Yes, I know. It's very unique but for once I just want to be average...)

Do you ladies this going with someone like CCRM who does 5-day freezing and chromosomal screenings is the best bet? Or someone like Dr. Check? I live in northern California.....


Thankful for this forum,
Sara Q
I have a good fried who is my age, 39. She's not a high FSH patient but still needing IVF. For her most recent IVF she produced 8 embies and did CGH on all and only 1 of the 8 came back chromosomally normal. Naturally, that was the one that was placed back in and she got her BFP. That BFP went on to be a loss at 8 weeks. The baby had been measuring a week behind all along and finally no h/b at 8 weeks.

Cost of CGH? $6k (on top of all the other costs of doing IVF). Had she put all 8 embies back in she very well may have had the same result as she did by doing the CGH or she may not have. But the difference is that she's down another D&C , $6k out of pocket and priced out of being able to do another IVF.

RE's assessment? "well, there's a 20% rate of false negatives." Meaning in 20% of the cases, the embie is shown as being chromosomally normal when it is not. My friend was taken aback by this as she didn't feel she totally and completely understood just how high the chances were with CGH and coming out on the bad side of the statistics.

I'm not saying don't consider CGH; just saying please make sure you are fully fully informed.

I think consulting with other REs is definitely a very good idea at this point. You may hear more of the same but you may find that golden nugget RE that is willing to try something new.
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JulesM
JulesM

June 1st, 2011, 12:45 am #9

Hi Ladies,


I just wanted to let you all know that I got my beta about 2 hours ago and it is indeed a BFN. Sorry I didn't write too many personal replies to your kind posts yesterday; I've just been emotionally spent. I really do appreciate you all so much.

It's starting to sink in a little more and I am not just sad; I am ANGRY. (Has anyone else felt this way?) I have had 3 failed IVFs (no chemical pregnancies- nothing) in less than 8 months and they don't understand why. If they knew for sure it was my eggs, then I'd move on to donor, but who knows if those would stick either? I've consulted with Dr. Zouves and had most of the immunology tests done that they do at SIRM - all of them came out negative except for MTHFR. I am having my WTF appointment with my RE tomorrow as much as I think she wants me to succeed, her approach is to "just keep trying." If she were me, she says, she wouldn't move to donor yet. (But I'd bet my darling puppy that she has a lot more money to spend than we do....) We're definately, definately changing clinics but how do I pick one? I want someone who will try to actually find the root of the problem, not just shake their head and say "this is very unusual for someone so young." (Yes, I know. It's very unique but for once I just want to be average...)

Do you ladies this going with someone like CCRM who does 5-day freezing and chromosomal screenings is the best bet? Or someone like Dr. Check? I live in northern California.....


Thankful for this forum,
Sara Q
That could be something else you could consider. It is standard practice at my clinic only if you are over 35. My clinic also had me take steriods after ET... something my other clinic did not do. They told me that it somehow helps with implantation if you use AH. I should know the exact mechanism but sometimes there is just too much info to absorb but I' sure if you google it you can find out.
Sara... again, I am so sorry... but you do have the fight in you and I know you will find your answer to why this happened and that will lead to your happy ending.
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Joined: January 13th, 2011, 3:54 pm

June 1st, 2011, 12:46 am #10

I recently had a callback with Dr. Check on a matter related to my PG and asked him what his thought was on why I got PG naturally vs. zero success after 9 cycles of insanity and he said if he had to pick one reason it was due to the effect the meds had on my uterine environment. This echoed the same thought that the Cooper nurse had given me months prior when I asked her the same Q.
Let me throw in this article:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18681994
In my post below I was so convinced but hearing from others about natural cycle... Geez. Who knows
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