Who is the Real Father of Baseball?

Joined: October 19th, 2004, 12:02 am

December 18th, 2007, 11:58 pm #11

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Dan- I skimmed that article and it is a very good one. What is clear is many members of the club had a hand in revising the rules of baseball, changing it from a child's game to one enjoyed by adults. Nobody knows with certainty, however, who did what.
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Joined: December 13th, 2004, 5:18 am

December 19th, 2007, 12:21 am #12

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Does anyone know who coined the term "Cartwright rules"? That seems to me like it would be a point worth noting, and may have an explanation as to why that term was used.
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Joined: October 19th, 2004, 12:02 am

December 19th, 2007, 12:33 am #13

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Dan- I have no idea who coined that term, but it appears to be something current.

There is even some question as to why Cartwright is in the Hall of Fame (isn't everyone questioned these days?). His grandson, Bruce Cartwright, traveled to Hawaii around 1912, and began an aggressive campaign to get some recognition for his famous grandfather. That may explain how the Cartwright myth may have been overblown.
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Joined: January 2nd, 2007, 9:07 pm

December 19th, 2007, 12:42 am #14

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Barry,

If George Washington can be the "Father of our Country", I guess Harry Wright can be the "Father of Baseball".
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Joined: May 5th, 2005, 3:51 pm

December 19th, 2007, 12:51 am #15

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
I don't think there is any question that Cartwright was part of a group effort and that others in group made similarly large contributions to the organization of the Club and the development of their rules. And if Cartwright is in the HOF, then very compelling arguments could be made that some of other original Knickerbockers should be there too.
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Joined: December 13th, 2004, 5:18 am

December 19th, 2007, 12:53 am #16

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Barry, it does seem a contradiction in the Hall of Fame's early beginnings that they inducted Cartwright, but not Doubleday, but they did name their baseball field after Doubleday. I guess the evidence for Doubleday which is nonexistent and based only on Spalding's nationalistic wishes that the game have its roots in America was enough for the Hall of Fame to go with the Cartwright story which does have some merit...and it's quite possible that AJC was an integral part of the modern games origins. Seems to me that the Hall honoring Doubleday in a different way was to keep those that subscribed to Spalding's "findings" happy.

In short what my rambling is trying to say was that perhaps the Hall's induction of Cartwright was somewhat a reactionary move.
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Joined: October 2nd, 2007, 8:17 pm

December 19th, 2007, 12:57 am #17

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Doc Adams should be in the HOF for inventing the shortstop at the very least
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Joined: October 19th, 2004, 12:02 am

December 19th, 2007, 1:11 am #18

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Dan- it is undeniable that Cartwright made a real contribution to the game's early history, and that the Doubleday myth is one of the great travesties of American history, baseball or otherwise. Cartwright was a founding member of the KBBC, he had strong organizational skills which he put to good use when the club was formed, he was an officer of the club, and he clearly contributed to the formation of the early rules.

But I also think it was a group effort, and the Hall of Fame could once get it right if they considered some of the other members too. No organization can survive and grow with only a single individual making a contribution. I'm sure much discussion went into writing that first constitution, and Cartwright surely didn't do it by himself.

In fact John Thorn believes that Doc Adams was a much more important figure in the Knickerbocker history. But his name is only familiar to the most ardent baseball historian. It's fascinating that baseball got its history wrong with the Doubleday myth, then got it wrong to a lesser degree again by anointing Cartwright the creator of the game. Maybe they will never get it exactly right.
Last edited by barrysloate on December 19th, 2007, 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: December 13th, 2004, 5:18 am

December 19th, 2007, 1:19 am #19

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
Perhaps the myth is the beauty of baseball. I mean who really cares about the invention of basketball where it is pretty clearly known that Naismith was asked to devise an indoor game and he based it on a childhood game he learned in Canada. No romance there.
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Joined: October 19th, 2004, 12:02 am

December 19th, 2007, 1:26 am #20

Okay, here is a topic just for fun:

Alexander Cartwright, Henry Chadwick, and Harry Wright have all at one time been called "the Father of Baseball." But we can all have only one daddy. So who is best deserving that title?

I think it is Harry Wright. Wright was a player starting in the late 1850's; in 1869 he formed the first professional baseball team, which changed the face of the game forever; when the National Association was formed, he managed the finest franchise in the league and won four championships (1872-75); when the National League was formed he managed Boston, Providence, and Philadelphia for nearly twenty years; and he copiously kept acccurate records of nearly every aspect of the professional game, best illustrated in the yearly scorebooks he preserved for close to fifteen years.

Any other differing opinions?
That's a very poetic way of putting it, valuing the myth over the reality.

But we are baseball historians, and it has to rile you at least a little bit when you realize that baseball is America's pastime, and has been for nearly 150 years, yet they can't even get its creation right.

It's as if Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb, but they decided to credit Mark Twain instead. It makes no sense.
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