Lelands - poor customer service or not???

Lelands - poor customer service or not???

Joined: June 30th, 2006, 6:58 pm

December 19th, 2008, 2:56 am #1

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 19th, 2008, 3:26 am #2

I know each of the folks you are speaking of and know Lelands fairly well. I do have some thoughts but since they are an advertiser on this board I will withhold them for the moment. Lets see if any others want to give a few thoughts first. best regards

edited to add that there can't be any anonymous posts in this thread (I, or another moderator, need to know you)...thanks for playing...
Last edited by leonl on December 19th, 2008, 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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E93
Joined: November 2nd, 2004, 12:32 am

December 19th, 2008, 3:39 am #3

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
Based on what you have presented, i would think they should reimburse you in full for the lot, pay for your gas for both trips (previewing and pickup) and they should go pick up the lot from you. You should not have to spend any more time or money on this. I think they should pay for the preview trip because your purchase of the lot was based on the misleading information about its contents that you received from them on that trip. None of this would have happened if what they showed you on the preview day was the actual contents of the lot. They should do it quickly and be done with it rather than stain their reputation over what is really a negligible sale for a company that does mult-million dollar auctions.
JimB
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Joined: October 18th, 2004, 1:27 am

December 19th, 2008, 3:57 am #4

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
The only right thing to do is to get a full refund and 150.00 bucks for each time you went there. It is not your fault and integrity is at stake.

Good luck
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Joined: November 26th, 2008, 6:41 am

December 19th, 2008, 5:44 am #5

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
edited--- due to anonymity. There can be none in this thread. Nothing personal....put your full name and good email and say what you want. I made mention of this in an above post plus it's ni the rules (leon)...thanks

aL
Last edited by leonl on December 19th, 2008, 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 24th, 2004, 1:41 am

December 19th, 2008, 6:11 am #6

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
Was there a detailed listing of each lot in the item description or did you happen to drive to the preview not knowing what was in the lots?

If you didn't know what was in the lot(s) before you drove to preview them then I would think that the reason for driving there was to determine whether or not you had an interest in the different lots. If that's the case then the preview trip was on you (I know you're not asking reimbursement for the trips but it was mentioned in an earlier thread).

If in fact there were missing guides (important guides) then I would do the same thing and request a refund (or even a partial refund). You stated "I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right"

Since Craig is an agent of Lelands then I think doing the right thing would include a full refund and maybe a little extra (like a small credit towards a future auction) for your inconvenience.

I do give Lelands credit for offering a full refund but I understand your point of view. I haven't won anything from Lelands in a while but I do remember my past dealings with them have all been very positive.

My collecting experience with media guides (I used to have a pretty big managerie of them) is that they take up a lot of space and people that are getting rid of them (selling/auctioning them) are doing so because they want to use the space for something else.

If you really like a lot of the guides then give yourself one last shot to make a deal with regards to the missing material. Maybe, just maybe you can strike a deal where you get a partial refund and the consignor doesn't have to store the guides again.

Good luck!


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Joined: June 14th, 2005, 2:29 am

December 19th, 2008, 10:30 am #7

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
My question is why didn't you check the lots before you left
the building? At this point it can't be proven either way
so the full refund is probably the best for all concerned.

Sorry this happened to you.


Steve

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Joined: June 30th, 2006, 6:58 pm

December 19th, 2008, 12:21 pm #8

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
To answer, Fred's question: The reason I physically previewed is because there was NOT a detailed listing of the guides. If on auction night, I lost on all lots, I would have been fine with that. So yes, I am not looking for reimbursement of my original previewing trip.

I also want to say that when all is said and done, I will probably be around break even or a hair above on this lot when I sell it. That being said, I am more comfortable keeping the lot instead of returning the guides and waiting for my check back from Lelands(see my note on the consignment check issue I had with them 10 years ago).

Rich W.
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Joined: August 16th, 2004, 1:34 am

December 19th, 2008, 2:44 pm #9

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
Rich, I would return the lot, take the refund and never deal with them again.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

December 19th, 2008, 2:54 pm #10

I would like to preface this by stating that I have been involved in this hobby/business for 30 years, and although many of you may not know me, I have been involved mostly in sports memorabilia opposed to cards. I will also apologize for the length of this diatribe now, along with apologizing to Dan McKee, as this appears to be a trivial matter compared with what Dan has gone through in the past. Also, please disregard that this issue concerns media guides and not cards; the real issue is the conduct of the auction house.

I recently participated in Lelands latest auction that concluded on the Friday before Thanksgiving Week. Among the items in this auction was a vast collection of media guides, programs, etc from one sports writer. Lelands broke out this collection into roughly 10 lots, all of which I had an interest. To give one an idea, EACH LOT consisted of anywhere between 6 and 20 FILE BOXES of programs, guides, correspondence, etc.

Since this collection was housed in Lelands Cape Cod, Massachusetts location (a 2-hour+ ride for me), I arranged to preview the items in person. I drove down on the Wednesday before the auction and spent nearly 3 hours previewing the 10 or so lots, taking pages of notes. I will say that the staff on the Cape were very accommodating and friendly.

I ended up winning one lot (the 500+ NFL media guides) out of the group, and ended up winning the lot on my last bid. I called the following Monday to arrange pick up and they allowed me to pay and pick up that day. When I arrived, they had all 9 file boxes at the door ready for me to take them. I paid, packed the boxes and drove 1 mile down the road to the DeAngelos to grab lunch. Before I went in, I decided to check a few boxes to make sure the key guides were there (now you know where this is going).

In the first box I opened, I immediately knew something was wrong as the guides were bouncing around in the box. I clearly remembered that each box was packed so tightly with guides I had to take a stack of 15 guides out just to look at the rest. I had my notes with me and quickly found a small stack of 6 key guides missing. I drove back to Lelands and showed Craig (a Lelands employee) my list and the missing guides. He claimed, We will make this right and suggested I take them home, list the ones missing and email the list to him.

I drove home and after review, found that at least 33 guides were missing (when I previewed the lot, I only listed the 1960s guides as the 1970s and up guides were too insignificant to list) from my list. I summarized that the value of these guide were conservatively $890.00 wholesale (or in other words, more than 25% of my final hammer price). I emailed this list to Craig and followed up with him the week after Thanksgiving.

When I called the following week and asked for Craig, Craig answered but immediately claimed that Angela (another Lelands employee) wanted to speak to me about this situation. She claimed that it was impossible that anyone could have stolen the guides as 3 principals of the company and a very reputable, long-time customer, whom Angela named by name, were the only ones who went upstairs (where the guides were) since I had previewed them. Regarding the customer, I have known him for over 25 years and have never had an issue with the many dealings I have had with him. So now I have that sucker-punched feeling for not only being the victim of stolen guides, but also having my integrity completely questioned.

Angela said that she had talked to Josh (owner of Lelands) and that I could return the guides for a refund. I had concerns for a couple of reasons. First, I would need to take a day off from work to bring them back to the Cape and secondly I had some concerns that I may not get a full refund. Angela insisted that I would be refunded completely but I had had issues with Lelands 10 years ago concerning a consignment check that was so poorly handled, it kept me from participating in Lelands auctions for about 9 years (feel free to email me if you want the detailed story). Thus, I was uncomfortable returning the guides.

I offered that Lelands provide a $400.00 allowance, much less than my loss, but it would end the situation and I could feel that I did not get completely screwed. I also requested that they review the surveillance cameras, which they claimed were upstairs and fully functional. Angela mentioned that she would look into it, but I know the video was never accessed. Lelands declined my offer and reiterated that I could return the guides.

In the days that followed, I did a little investigation on eBay and found some circumstantial evidence that blew a few holes in the impossibility of the guides going missing. I provided a detailed email pointing out the specific auctions in question and sent them to Angela in an email. Please note that the evidence I found was circumstantial, but certainly worthy to question (feel free to email me for details). I followed with another email days later in which Angela responded and claimed that she misunderstood that Lelands was going to do anything (in her defense, she thought I was going to continue my investigation). She again offered a full refund only, claiming that this was a very reasonable solution to this situation, but I needed to return them now as 30 days have nearly passed.

What do the great and wise minds of Net54 think? Am I being unreasonable by not just returning the guides? Has Lelands done enough from their standpoint? Should I just bite the bullet and let this go? I know if this were my company, I would have done a full blown investigation into what happened. Feel free to email me at qcards2@aol.com.

Rich Wetherbee
I have seen a few responses so I guess I will chime in...good, bad or indifferent. Keeping full disclosure at the forefront Lelands does advertise with me and I do consider Josh, Angela and Scott G as good hobby friends. I have met Mike too and he seems like a nice guy.

If I were them, and I haven't heard the other side of the story (honestly not sure it matters)....I would have done exactly as you wished and written you a $400 check. I would have also paid some of your expenses. This is a $400 issue not a $40,000 one. So much for my biased towards advertisers. I still like Lelands and will continue to do business with them as I think they do run a fine company.....
In business there are a million situations. I would have handled this a little differently if I were them and I am sure they would handle some of my situations differently than I do. I still consider them friends though and hope to see them at the next National and Net54 Dinner.....take care
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