Hopeful conclusion to the 1930 Goudey Ruth saga......

Hopeful conclusion to the 1930 Goudey Ruth saga......

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 22nd, 2007, 9:12 pm #1

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 23rd, 2007, 12:24 am #2

I get moderator privileges on this one and want to say a bit more. I have about a half a dozen private emails from folks that have been in the hobby an average of 25 yrs....telling me to be careful on this. If anyone notices my wording above, and what I told Steve, is that the card has to be found to be conclusively printed circa 1930. Ink and cardstock alone won't do that. Corroborating evidence of some type will need to be there. Even with that being said, from the several experts, including SGC, that have examined this card.....I have gathered this is not a good fake. I do want to also thank everyone for looking out for me.....Ya' never know when I might hit a bump in the road so I will take all the help I can get ..take care...

edited spelling
Last edited by leonl on March 25th, 2007, 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 23rd, 2007, 3:24 pm #3

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
I will give a few updates as we go along. Everyone can form your own opinion about it but I will provide the facts. I don't care to have too much commentary right now, but EVERYONE will have another chance to speak on the subject....Right now I am not sure what more can be accomplished, or said, than what is in the 125 post thread. I spoke with Mark H. and Marshall Fogel last night. Mark thanked me for trying to help. Marshall and I spoke about the way this is being handled and what would be best. I spoke with Steve just now and apprised him of that. Right now Steve is waiting for a call back from a conservator. Steve still wants it to be examined, which is fine...even though the ink and paper alone won't be enough to be definitive....however, if by some miracle, the process used to print the card was only done in the 1930's then that would be big news. Again, I am told by at least 6 extremely knowledgable folks, that have handled the card, that it's not good....but we are still making process towards resolution. Mark is willing to have Steve put the money in an escrow with Mark's lawyer. Steve is ok with this too. So that means Mark will be getting his money back. As I learn more I will update everyone. When the outcome is reached we can open this back up for debate....for now let's get some resolution though. For the record this is not exactly the way I would have done this if I were Steve and I have told Steve this.....However, it is being handled as quickly as possible....thanks much...
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 23rd, 2007, 5:03 pm #4

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
You guys can post away....this was never meant to be a private deal between Steve and I...I am only trying to help all concerned parties...if it is real, and someone else wants it, they can buy it....it's only cardboard....thanks
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Joined: October 28th, 2003, 11:26 pm

March 23rd, 2007, 5:06 pm #5

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
Leon, only one question you said if its proven to be real you will but it, if its real why wouldn't the person who bought it in the first place want to keep it?
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 23rd, 2007, 5:09 pm #6

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
First of all maybe it was a mistake to lock this thread.....so for that...it's unlocked now. To say it was some private deal was kind of stupid imo. If it was private why would I be posting it? As for Mark keeping the card if it's real, it's still up to him, but he has indicated to me he doesn't want it now. I am totally open to buying it or not, if it can be proven to have been printed in circa 1930. Hope this helps explain....
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Joined: October 28th, 2003, 11:26 pm

March 23rd, 2007, 5:23 pm #7

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
Leon, thanks for answering my question. It was more out of morbid curiosity than anything else. If it’s real would be a gem of an item huh?

Also for what its worth I had really no problem with you locking the thread. In fact if you didn’t it more than likely would have had another 200 posts, with about 20 posts adding something new or valuable to a discussion that was beat to death IMO.

Leon for the most part you do a pretty good job here, personally I can only think of a few things that you have done in the past that I didn’t agree with per say, locking this was not one of them.

Regards,

John
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Joined: October 15th, 2001, 5:26 pm

March 23rd, 2007, 5:46 pm #8

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
I don't think either party fared well in this ordeal. Steve Verkman probably lost a lot of potential customers and the buyer has had to agonize over a card which is, to use the term Lew Lipset used in his book, a "cinderella."
I'm with John, I don't see a problem with the 125 post thread locking. It was getting pretty bad. One could argue that it was only the scathing posts which pushed Steve in to a position where the buyer was able to receive a refund but I think the thread degenerated and agree with Barry that enough was enough.
Freedom of speech is dear but it should also be remembered that the purpose of this board is to discuss cards and the hobby in general. Contrast the way this thread spiralled. I think everyone had their say and it appears things have been resolved.
I read a couple of threads about the Demmit and O'Hara variations and other card discussions and it reminded me of how useful and informative this board can be.
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Joined: November 2nd, 2006, 3:19 pm

March 23rd, 2007, 7:15 pm #9

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
Leon you mentioned SGC having looked at the card. I read in the other thread that PSA had examined it, but not SGC as well. Has it just been sent off to SGC? If both SGC and PSA deem it as a counterfeit thats pretty conclusive for most people. If the paper and ink testing comes out to show its from around 1930 what would be the next step in conclusively establishing authenticity? Apparently no info has ever been found about this calender in Goudey records, how will anyone be able to verify it was actually produced by the Goudey Gum Company?
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 23rd, 2007, 7:29 pm #10

I have no idea how I will be able to sell computers if I keep getting involved so much but anyway........

I just spoke to Steve...He really wants an end to this whole situation. He is willing to put the 18k into an escrow account and have this card tested. After he makes sure Mark's lawyer is a regular bar member in good standing he will even put it in one with her. Can't blame him for that. The card will be sent to an independent 3rd party paper conservator. It will be tested as to the date of printing. If it is conclusively found to be printed from the 1930 era I will buy it. If it is not conclusive Steve will refund the money. Period. I am not sure if this is good with Mark but this is what Steve is proposing. Steve will work with Mark, or I will be in the middle to help, he doesn't care one way or the other. I am going to lock this thread as there doesn't need to be any more commentary and all 3 parties have my contact info. I will update the board as to the outcome. Not sure it can be too much more fair.... From what I understand from Mark's lawyer, today, he doesn't really want to do this so I am not sure this is feasible. Again, I will update this thread and open it up later. I did want to let folks know what is going on. Sorry I locked the other thread but after 125 posts I am not sure what else could be said....thanks again
I was told by SGC, yesterday, that they had physically looked at this card around 8 mos ago (don't hold me or them to the exact time as they didn't remember it exactly) and they quickly deemed it counterfeit. Another big bullet against the card.....They didn't remember who sent it in....Steve told me this morning that he was unaware that they had ever looked at it....regards
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