1930 Goudey- Babe Ruth- questionable authenticity?

1930 Goudey- Babe Ruth- questionable authenticity?

Joined: March 6th, 2007, 5:25 am

March 9th, 2007, 3:30 am #1

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
Last edited by leonl on March 10th, 2007, 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 15th, 2001, 5:26 pm

March 9th, 2007, 3:37 am #2

I am curious- What reasons did PSA give for its not being genuine? Did the fact Mastro and Lifson had never heard of the card before make them question its authenticity or did they make their decision based on the paper and printing, etc.? If you bought a card which is not original or not authentic or countefeit or a "cinderella," you have no recourse than to sue to have your money returned based on either fraud or misrepresentation.
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Joined: December 13th, 2004, 5:18 am

March 9th, 2007, 3:42 am #3

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
Where did Clean Sweep get this card? 1930 is a full three years before Goudey produced cards of any type.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 9th, 2007, 3:50 am #4

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
I was the underbidder (bridesmaid) twice on this card. I will be very interested in seeing where this goes. I also would like to know, for my own edification, why those folks that think it's fake think the way they do. I am not, by any means, saying they are wrong or right, as I don't know. I would think if all of those folks mentioned, PSA, Bill Mastro, and Rob Lifson, all think it's fake....then it's probably fake. But I would still like to know why. Is the paper too new, the printing, are there dot patterns etc..??? Very interesting...Also, this could almost get into the realm of some forensic testing with the price it was sold at....


edited to put in "PSA" instead of "SGC" as that is what Mark had said...
Last edited by leonl on March 9th, 2007, 3:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 26th, 2006, 5:05 pm

March 9th, 2007, 3:55 am #5

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
Didn't Steve have that same exact card in two auctions? I'll have to dig in my back issues of Verkmans catalogs 'cause I think he has had it in two different auctions..............
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Joined: October 31st, 2005, 1:26 am

March 9th, 2007, 3:57 am #6

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
The original had some really creative and detailed handywork.

I'm no grader, but have seen B/W laserprinted fakes and this is just another. Too bad, it's a nice design.

Mark, I hope you are able to recoup.

Note the lack of uniformity in surface gloss -this appears only where the ink is applied and will feel rough and lightly raised where it's black. I bought the same type of print once.

Last edited by fdnyladder7 on March 9th, 2007, 4:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

March 9th, 2007, 3:58 am #7

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
It was the same card.....The first person that bought it turned around and had Steve auction it again around a year later....regards
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Joined: June 26th, 2006, 5:05 pm

March 9th, 2007, 4:04 am #8

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
saved me a lotta diggin' tomorrow
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Joined: August 12th, 2005, 6:14 pm

March 9th, 2007, 4:18 am #9

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
Well I'm sorry for you. To me, that card doesn't look like a 1930 baseball card. It may well be real, but I wouldn't give you $5 for it.

Have you looked at the print with a strong magnifying glass?? Have you illuminated the card with black light? Have you contacted an attorney about legal recourse, if any, against Clean Sweep?? Those would be good steps, especially the last. Or sell the card to the underbidder and take a loss. I think if you got much of anything at all for the card then you've done well to get out.

Good luck with it,

Frank.
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 9:04 pm

March 9th, 2007, 4:30 am #10

My name is Mark P. Haverkos. At the end of September 2006, I won (bought) a purported 1930 Goudey Premium Babe Ruth Calendar Card from Clean Sweep Auctions. Since that time, I have attempted to authenticate the card, but thus far, everyone has told me that the card is neither original nor genuine – expect for Clean Sweep. I have a letter from PSA stating that this card in not genuine or original. I also have a letter from Bill Mastro stating the same. Verbally, by telephone, Rob Lifson has told me that he also believes the card is not authentic, although he has never held it in his hand or wanted to do so. Two other experts have also advised me that the card is not authentic. The only “letter of authenticity” that I have been able to get for the card is from Steve Verkman, President of Clean Sweep Auctions. I paid $18,775.00 (with the buyer's premium) to Clean Sweep Auctions for the card (auction ended 09/27/06). Based on my inability to have the card authenticated by anyone (other than Steve Verkman’s opinion) I requested a refund from Clean Sweep Auctions and who refused to give me a refund and told that they were not going to spend anymore time on it. Can anyone help me with this unfortunate situation? Does anyone have any information or know anything about this card? Your help would be greatly appreciated by me, as I have put many hours into trying to find any information on the card and have come up with absolutely nothing. Thank you for any help you can provide.

Below are pictures of the front and back of the card:

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edited title to be more specific
Does anyone have the description that Clean Sweep put on the auction? I vaguely recall something along the lines that the seller (who I guess won the item in the first auction) had some sob story which did not seem appropriate for an auction description. It just seemed odd.
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