Voted! I am mad enough

Voted! I am mad enough

celtredleg
celtredleg

June 9th, 2012, 12:03 am #1

to bite rocks.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/0 ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Since when does the Army vote on what we are going to do? That chopper pilot needs to find a job doing traffic in some small city. Unfuckig proffesional. The more I think about it the madder I get. You are in command captain, so fuxking COMMAND!

what an asshole. Voted, what is this the goddamed PTA? If Bruce Crandel catches this guy he is going to kick him right where his nuts shiould be. Take the gutless bitches blackhawk away and giove him a big wheel with a trailer.

Wonder if Teddy took a show of hands before heading up the hill? More like follow me mutha fukkas! Or Scarlett and the gallant 300? Somehow I missed the class on takeing a vote in a crisis situation.

I dont remember the Von commenting on the vote he took on the Falklands.

I need to stop this could go on for hours.

Owen
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Dennis
Dennis

June 9th, 2012, 10:35 am #2

But I wonder how many times similar acts have happened in the recent and distant past (and I have no doubt they did) with opposite results?

Humans haven't changed that much over the passing of time.
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mooster
mooster

June 9th, 2012, 1:26 pm #3

Speaking COMPLETELY from a civilian point of view (and when I was working ambulance full-time) there's no way I would let a guy who is essentially a bomb in the back of my truck. No way would I take him to the hospital.

In pre-hospital emergency response, the first rule is don't become part of the problem. Don't become a patient. Scene safety, crew safety and utltimately the safety of the hospital is paramount. Not the patient. He's already fucked. If you can do something about it, then you do. There isn't a line that cannot be crossed. It's more like a large grey area DMZ. I've done some dangerous type things over the years, and even found myself unexpectedly in life-threatening situations (my own life). That's going to happen in 21 years and any shift you can walk away from is a good one. I've walked away from them all - knock wood.

There are also times when you leave people dead. If you have a single patient situation, you might provide some highly aggressive treatment in a futile attempt to save that person even if you believe their situation is likely hopeless. On the other hand, in multiple casualty incidents with limited resources, you ignore the walking wounded and also ignore the ones with tickets punched. You treat the ones who you know have the best chance for a positive outcome. So a severely critical patient or even a non-breathing patient who would normally receive maximal care is left lying to die or dead as is. That's extremely rare in an urban/suburban setting because you have more resources, but it happens.

Even being totally aware that this situation with the Marine who had an RPG in his leg is a military situation and not a civilian one, my view is that there is a couple of different ways of looking at this. Was this evac crew above and beyond courageous? Hell and Yes! Was what they did also bat-shit irresponsible? Yes. They took a vote and decided to transport this guy. What about the doctors, nurses and medics back at the hospital or surgical receiving area? Do they get a vote? You can get a whole lot of people killed based upon a snap decision made in the field. The fact that this situation ended more or less happily doesn't mean that transporting this Marine wasn't a whole lot of batshit regardless of outcome.

What I would have done if I was the medical authority in the situation would be to call in ordinance guys to remove or disarm the RPG. I don't want to armchair a bunch of bravery, but it would be likely I would also stay with the patient to keep him stabilized as much as possible. Launch dual large-bore IV's, put lots of fluid in him, control the bleeding as much as possible, keep him oxygenated and get the RPG taken care of. A lot of critical time (we call it "The Golden Hour" in trauma situations) would be lost, and we might lose the Marine. But like I said above, he's already fucked. He's got a live RPG in his mangled leg afterall. If we can mitigate that and save the guy then smiles all around. If not, then that's life in a combat zone. Or death as it may be.

There was actually a situation similar to this during the Korean War. Surgeons at a MASH type place were working on a dude and discovered unexploded ordinance inside the patient's abdomenal cavity. No one knew it until the surgeon discovered it. I think it was mortar or something similar. Point in this case is that the ordinace wasn't deliberately brought in. That story ended happily and was used as a story line in the MASH TV show - with that preachy lefty fucker Alan Alda starring as "our hero."

To me, the key difference was the accidental discovery. I'm glad this situation ended well with the Marine. The courage of all involved is reassuring in a world where most people refuse to accept responsibility, where people are becoming more and more self-entitled and self-important. I don't like to see myself in that sort of negative light, but I'm here to tell you that I'm not knowingly and deliberately transporting a live bomb to a hospital. Not on my truck...











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Loki Luv, MD°
Loki Luv, MD°

June 9th, 2012, 5:12 pm #4

to bite rocks.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/0 ... ?hpt=hp_c2

Since when does the Army vote on what we are going to do? That chopper pilot needs to find a job doing traffic in some small city. Unfuckig proffesional. The more I think about it the madder I get. You are in command captain, so fuxking COMMAND!

what an asshole. Voted, what is this the goddamed PTA? If Bruce Crandel catches this guy he is going to kick him right where his nuts shiould be. Take the gutless bitches blackhawk away and giove him a big wheel with a trailer.

Wonder if Teddy took a show of hands before heading up the hill? More like follow me mutha fukkas! Or Scarlett and the gallant 300? Somehow I missed the class on takeing a vote in a crisis situation.

I dont remember the Von commenting on the vote he took on the Falklands.

I need to stop this could go on for hours.

Owen
`
...They didn't just try yanking the thing out of him right on the spot ?

I mean - that's what they ended up doing in the end, so why even put in in the helicopter, or take it back to the hospital ? Especially if the medics were already on the way, anyway.

Weird.

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celtredleg
celtredleg

June 9th, 2012, 7:07 pm #5

You dont know that the round is all that is keeping the artery sealed and if you yank it that is it. So we are trained to leave it, and wrap it so it cant move.
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celtredleg
celtredleg

June 9th, 2012, 7:23 pm #6

Speaking COMPLETELY from a civilian point of view (and when I was working ambulance full-time) there's no way I would let a guy who is essentially a bomb in the back of my truck. No way would I take him to the hospital.

In pre-hospital emergency response, the first rule is don't become part of the problem. Don't become a patient. Scene safety, crew safety and utltimately the safety of the hospital is paramount. Not the patient. He's already fucked. If you can do something about it, then you do. There isn't a line that cannot be crossed. It's more like a large grey area DMZ. I've done some dangerous type things over the years, and even found myself unexpectedly in life-threatening situations (my own life). That's going to happen in 21 years and any shift you can walk away from is a good one. I've walked away from them all - knock wood.

There are also times when you leave people dead. If you have a single patient situation, you might provide some highly aggressive treatment in a futile attempt to save that person even if you believe their situation is likely hopeless. On the other hand, in multiple casualty incidents with limited resources, you ignore the walking wounded and also ignore the ones with tickets punched. You treat the ones who you know have the best chance for a positive outcome. So a severely critical patient or even a non-breathing patient who would normally receive maximal care is left lying to die or dead as is. That's extremely rare in an urban/suburban setting because you have more resources, but it happens.

Even being totally aware that this situation with the Marine who had an RPG in his leg is a military situation and not a civilian one, my view is that there is a couple of different ways of looking at this. Was this evac crew above and beyond courageous? Hell and Yes! Was what they did also bat-shit irresponsible? Yes. They took a vote and decided to transport this guy. What about the doctors, nurses and medics back at the hospital or surgical receiving area? Do they get a vote? You can get a whole lot of people killed based upon a snap decision made in the field. The fact that this situation ended more or less happily doesn't mean that transporting this Marine wasn't a whole lot of batshit regardless of outcome.

What I would have done if I was the medical authority in the situation would be to call in ordinance guys to remove or disarm the RPG. I don't want to armchair a bunch of bravery, but it would be likely I would also stay with the patient to keep him stabilized as much as possible. Launch dual large-bore IV's, put lots of fluid in him, control the bleeding as much as possible, keep him oxygenated and get the RPG taken care of. A lot of critical time (we call it "The Golden Hour" in trauma situations) would be lost, and we might lose the Marine. But like I said above, he's already fucked. He's got a live RPG in his mangled leg afterall. If we can mitigate that and save the guy then smiles all around. If not, then that's life in a combat zone. Or death as it may be.

There was actually a situation similar to this during the Korean War. Surgeons at a MASH type place were working on a dude and discovered unexploded ordinance inside the patient's abdomenal cavity. No one knew it until the surgeon discovered it. I think it was mortar or something similar. Point in this case is that the ordinace wasn't deliberately brought in. That story ended happily and was used as a story line in the MASH TV show - with that preachy lefty fucker Alan Alda starring as "our hero."

To me, the key difference was the accidental discovery. I'm glad this situation ended well with the Marine. The courage of all involved is reassuring in a world where most people refuse to accept responsibility, where people are becoming more and more self-entitled and self-important. I don't like to see myself in that sort of negative light, but I'm here to tell you that I'm not knowingly and deliberately transporting a live bomb to a hospital. Not on my truck...










Your truck, your call. With good and valid reasoning behind it. I could even accept the pilot saying this is to big a rick for my bird, tough nuts marine.

I note you are not going to call for a vote eithere, you just make the call. peter pilot should have done the same. do or not do, his call. voting is for polotics, not the army.

As for your triage, sure we do the same. who doesnt need it now, who can we save, who is fucked. We count the golden hour as well.
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Loki Luv, MD°
Loki Luv, MD°

June 10th, 2012, 12:57 am #7

You dont know that the round is all that is keeping the artery sealed and if you yank it that is it. So we are trained to leave it, and wrap it so it cant move.
`
Hoping the improvised tourniquet made out of, say... ...a belt or strap or some rope-like something and a stick or bayonet sheath, &tc works sufficently vs. extended close proximity to explosive device which probably won't detonate - because after all, it didn't work the way it was supposed to to begin with - but could still do so at any moment...

I gotta say, I'd probb'ly just yank it out & throw it as far as I could & let 'em put me in front of the firing squad, or whatever they do if you do that. Of course, everybody from my Pa to my ex-wife told me I can't do nothin' right.

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john
john

June 10th, 2012, 6:40 pm #8

My Dad and wife rarely have a good word to say about me either, but fuk' it; what do they know? I know I'm better than their opinions would warrant and am bound for better things. Only trouble is, I haven't found the right direction to go yet.
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John
John

June 10th, 2012, 6:42 pm #9

"Any penetrating wounds with the knife or projectile sticking out, should never be removed." Like Owen said. Better to bandage and tie it off and let the doctors in the emergency room deal with the problem.
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Loki Luv, MD°
Loki Luv, MD°

June 12th, 2012, 3:07 am #10

My Dad and wife rarely have a good word to say about me either, but fuk' it; what do they know? I know I'm better than their opinions would warrant and am bound for better things. Only trouble is, I haven't found the right direction to go yet.
`
My greatest epochs have come about as a result of telling people to go fuck themselves and just doing whatever I wanted to in the first place.

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