Happy Ft Sumter Day

Happy Ft Sumter Day

celtredleg
celtredleg

April 12th, 2011, 8:21 pm #1

Well, sort of. 150th, seems hard to believe.

Sad probably, but it had to be done, so may as well celebrate.

Owen
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John
John

April 13th, 2011, 1:16 am #2

to party. What are you drinking tonight?
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Loki Luv, MD°
Loki Luv, MD°

April 14th, 2011, 4:08 am #3

`
...probably more "funny strange", than "funny ha-ha" - but I watched the entirety of Ken Burns' civil war series on our local PBS station last week, and no matter how many times I see or hear the tale related... ...no matter how much I know full well that it's been over and done with for a century and a half now... ...I still want to go and dig up McClellan's God Damn grave and punch him in the face every time I think about how he sat there right at the gates of Richmond and did absolutely fucking nothing .
I mean - I'd like to go back in time and do it all proper-like of course - giving him a sound biff right in the snout. It's not as though I haven't dreamt of doing so... ...at least day-dreamed it, anyway. Look - I get bored at work from time to time, and what the hell else have I got to console myself ? There are only so many times you can fantasize about the atom bomb concealed in the soda-pop machine from the film The Sum of All Fears blowing the US gov't. off the face of the Earth, you know !


LoL
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John
John

April 14th, 2011, 3:41 pm #4

Yeah, it's pretty damned obvious that "Little Mac" just wasn't a fighting general. He had a number of odd quirks and personality flaws that the Confederates quickly became aware of and soon took advantage. He was a legend in his own mind, while posessing a streak of paranoia and self doubt a mile wide. McClellen's true gift was that he was an outstanding organizer and trainer of fighting men. The shattered army he inherited after being solidly thumped at First Bull Run quickly came to bear his personal stamp of influence. He completely reorganzed and trained those troops from top to bottom, while bringing in some much needed reforms in all facets of military life. McClellen wasn't a successful general in the field, but whatever the Army of the Potomac later became in that war, it was because of his direct influence and hands-on training. As a result, the Army of the Potomac never stopped loving Little Mac, right up to the end of the war.
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John
John

April 14th, 2011, 4:28 pm #5

`
...probably more "funny strange", than "funny ha-ha" - but I watched the entirety of Ken Burns' civil war series on our local PBS station last week, and no matter how many times I see or hear the tale related... ...no matter how much I know full well that it's been over and done with for a century and a half now... ...I still want to go and dig up McClellan's God Damn grave and punch him in the face every time I think about how he sat there right at the gates of Richmond and did absolutely fucking nothing .
I mean - I'd like to go back in time and do it all proper-like of course - giving him a sound biff right in the snout. It's not as though I haven't dreamt of doing so... ...at least day-dreamed it, anyway. Look - I get bored at work from time to time, and what the hell else have I got to console myself ? There are only so many times you can fantasize about the atom bomb concealed in the soda-pop machine from the film The Sum of All Fears blowing the US gov't. off the face of the Earth, you know !


LoL
The stupid bastard had a copy of R.E. Lee's battle plans wrapped around some cigars fall into his hands and the jackass still allowed Lee the time needed to gather his forces together to attack him at Antietam. What was worse, after Lee's attacks had failed and the Army of Northern Virginia was on the verge of exhaustion, McClellen still had a whole, fresh corps of troops in reserve that he could have committed to battle and destroyed the Confederates. Instead, he did NOTHING.
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celtredleg
celtredleg

April 14th, 2011, 5:48 pm #6

punk bitch come to mind when I think of Mac.

He would have made somebody a great chief of staff, but to much ego.

In a lot of ways, he reminds me of Monty, only monty was willing to fight sometines.

Owen
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John
John

April 14th, 2011, 8:11 pm #7

Yeah, Mac only fought when he had to and not very effectively when he did so. During Seven Days Battles, he let himself believe that he was greatly outnumbered by Lee's Confederates, whereas the reverse was true. The AOP fell back in a series of withdrawls to the protection of Mac's gunboats on the James River. In reality, McClellens troops fought like demons and piled up Confederate dead during every battle during those Seven Days, winning nearly every engagement. Mac thought otherwise.
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Dennis
Dennis

April 17th, 2011, 1:33 pm #8

Well, sort of. 150th, seems hard to believe.

Sad probably, but it had to be done, so may as well celebrate.

Owen
What a gutless bastard, waste of air, water and food, and clean to the bone cowardly motherfucker! Antietam is his penultimate failure, thought a number of the others cited in the thread were not too much less notable.

With Lee's plans and troop placements in his hands, Mac fails to follow up his victory on South Mountain when Lee's forces were not at all concentrated and could have been beaten in detail.

Than he fails to insure that his plan at Antietam is put into effect. It was to have been a simultaneous assault on both flanks and center, which of course did not happen.

So, rather than insure it DOES take place as planned, old shit for brains fluffs the blame off on his subordinates...like the commander of the army has no fucking responsibility for making sure his plans are followed or a duty to replace people who either can't or won't follow orders.

Antietam is the one time in the war when the dream scenario, the destruction of an entire army, could have happened and the war most likely ended in one stroke.

Mac's words after the battle never fail to piss me off. In describing his performace that day he quotes his dick-licking syncopants, "They say I fought the battle brilliantly."

Well, either his syncopants or Lee, Jackson, Longstreet and Stuart who were probably hoping against hope that their greatest chance for victory would never be removed from command of all the Union armies!

Since we can't travel back in time, maybe we can someday hook up to piss on his grave together!
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John
John

April 17th, 2011, 3:41 pm #9

when I actually thought McClellen was a Confederate sympathizer who was secretly working for the Rebel cause, because nobody could be that criminally incompetant time after time. After doing a bit more reading, I came to the conclusion that he was just a pathalogically stupid sociopath, while posessing an ego the size of Mt Everest. I agree with you about Antietam. There is no possible excuse for his actions, or inactions there before, during and after the battle. Like I wrote earlier, McClellen had an entire uncommitted Corps of fresh Union troops who stood around, marking time during the entire battle, when they could have easily been utilized by caving in the Confederate left flank, before rolling up the entire Rebel line. Even General Lee was amused by McClellen's inexplicable behavior before the battle. He said. "Only McClellen would have hesitated in attacking me when I was most vulnerable."

I loved the excuse that McClellen gave Lincoln following the Seven Days Battles, where he and his army was driven back down the York peninsula and away from Richmond nearly 20 miles by a series of desparate Confederate counter attacks. Mac said: "I didn't lose. I just failed to win." He was an unparalelled master of bullshit doubletalk.

I'm ready for a road trip. I think Mac is buried somewhere in New York State. We'll put a keg of good beer in the back of Loki's hearse and make a pilgrimage to McClellen's grave site before we salute him in grand style!
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Dennis
Dennis

April 17th, 2011, 7:22 pm #10

If there is a reason for his actions, note not an EXCUSE, it would be that Lil' Mac was the most political of Lincoln's generals. I think he made up his mind very early that he would seek the Democratic nomination in '64 and played every card he could think of to make that a reality.

That would include overstating his "victories," and catering to the end the war faction in the North. He most definitely would have taken a negotiated settlement, even at the expense of making secession a reality.

Unfortunately, in the middle of a war major victories do more for a general's popularity rating than anything else. Not exactly Mac's forte.

IIRC the quote from Lee you used was after South Mountain on September 15 as I alluded to in my post. On that date Harpers Ferry was being invested and had not surrendered. Lee, much weaker than Mac to begin with, was at his absolute weakest as he would not have been able to draw on Jackson's foot cavalry.

The thing I've always believed is that Mac KNEW he was overmatched against Lee....probably against Lee's corp commanders as well, and did all he could to avoid decisive battle. His "victories" against Lee and other Confederate commanders in the early part of the war in western Virginia all had one common thread...Mac was no where near the scene of the action. All those victories were the responsibility of subordinate commanders...not that they ever got any credit from America's Napoleon!

He would however have been an excellent quartermaster general.
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