blufeld
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Joined: March 21st, 2017, 4:34 pm

August 7th, 2018, 12:35 pm #141

Not a good likeness.  I've seen the movie, but my memory fails me.  Does Cagney portray THE  PHANTOM OF THE OPERA?
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Wich2
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August 7th, 2018, 12:36 pm #142

Blaster wrote: Holden appeared in a few Film Noirs but I don't think he ever played a hardboiled private detective.  I always thought by the mid to late 40's he might have made a good Philip Marlowe.  
Hmmm... not bad!

Though I still wish Mitchum had been tapped back then; heck, he was even doing Noirs!
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Casey62
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August 7th, 2018, 12:53 pm #143

blufeld wrote: Not a good likeness.  I've seen the movie, but my memory fails me.  Does Cagney portray THE  PHANTOM OF THE OPERA?
Yes - there's a re-enactment of the unmasking scene...
f65b39a238d3ea054853de2dc953bfac--the-phantom-james-cagney.jpg
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Casey62
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August 7th, 2018, 1:03 pm #144

As far as vignetting those Chaney roles into its milieu goes, I think MAN OF A THOUSAND FACES does a good enough job. At least they tried to copy the original makeups, albeit modified to fit over Cagney's features.
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horrorfilmx
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August 7th, 2018, 7:14 pm #145

Casey62 wrote:
blufeld wrote: Not a good likeness.  I've seen the movie, but my memory fails me.  Does Cagney portray THE  PHANTOM OF THE OPERA?
Yes - there's a re-enactment of the unmasking scene...
f65b39a238d3ea054853de2dc953bfac--the-phantom-james-cagney.jpg
I like parts of Man of 1,000 Faces very much, especially Cagney and Frank Skinner's score, but the make-ups are horrendous. And after the re-enactment of the Phantom scene, when the director yells "Cut!", Cagney/Chaney turns to the "Mary Philbin" and pats her hand and compliments her performance rather condescendingly --- Philbin was the biggest star on the Universal lot!
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horrorfilmx
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August 7th, 2018, 7:17 pm #146

Here's a collector's item for ya --- allegedly Cagney fake Quasimodo eye from Man of 1,000 Faces, being offered by Heritage Auctions!

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Wich2
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August 7th, 2018, 11:14 pm #147

horrorfilmx wrote:

I like parts of Man of 1,000 Faces very much, especially Cagney and Frank Skinner's score, but the make-ups are horrendous. And after the re-enactment of the Phantom scene, when the director yells "Cut!", Cagney/Chaney turns to the "Mary Philbin" and pats her hand and compliments her performance rather condescendingly --- Philbin was the biggest star on the Universal lot!
Biggest star, maybe - but not best actor!

Haven't we read accounts before reporting that Sr. essentially directed (or at least. co-directed) his scenes in POTO - and that specifically, he coached Philbin?

MAN itself is an honest attempt, better than some other similar pieces at the time. But, as with Stewart in SPIRIT, the Lead came to the role at least a decade too late.
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Casey62
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August 7th, 2018, 11:28 pm #148

Yeah, Cagney's around 57 in MAN, but he could pass for 47 - which was Chaney's age when he died. But I always thought Chaney looked about ten years older than his age anyway.
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telegonus
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August 8th, 2018, 7:12 am #149

Casey62 wrote: As far as vignetting those Chaney roles into its milieu goes, I think MAN OF A THOUSAND FACES does a good enough job. At least they tried to copy the original makeups, albeit modified to fit over Cagney's features.
I like Man Of A Thousand Faces. It's sentimental, but then so was Lon Chaney; and it's old-fashioned in the way its story is told, and in this respect rather like a silent film, which so far as I'm concerned is all for the good. Something about Cagney playing Chaney has always screamed "wrong! wrong! wrong!" with me, and yet I yield to the actor and his talent fairly early on in the picture. It's a matter of my problem with suspension of disbelief, and of Cagney being such a different type than Chaney; and, especially, as the years ago by, Cagney's fame eventually equaling if not eclipsing Chaney's IRL.

As it's a mainstream Hollywood movie from the Fifties there's probably no way MOATF could have been made with the right (as in good casting) actor. A relative unknown might have worked, but would Uni have bought it? Off the top of my head: Rod Steiger might have made a fantastic Lon Chaney in a biopic of the silent movie star, but would the studio have backed a film with a relative newcomer to films with no history of box-office success? Steiger wasn't a draw, but then neither was Paul Newman when he starred in Somebody Up There Likes Me. Steiger did show star power later on in his career, as a character star, and at the right time a Chaney biography might have worked, but not in 1957.
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horrorfilmx
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August 8th, 2018, 11:58 am #150

telegonus wrote:I like Man Of A Thousand Faces. It's sentimental, but then so was Lon Chaney; and it's old-fashioned in the way its story is told, and in this respect rather like a silent film, which so far as I'm concerned is all for the good.
That's an excellent point that had never occurred to me. The scenes between Chaney and his young son are like Chaplin and Jackie Coogan in The Kid. And if Cagney seems physically miscast and Chaney, what about Roger Smith as Lon Jr?

And to bring things around in a big circle, you know who would've made a good Chaney? Humphrey Bogart! Not in 1957 of course, but in better days. 
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telegonus
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August 9th, 2018, 6:43 pm #151

Casey62 wrote:
Godziwolf wrote:
Casey62 wrote:
Cagney had quite an emotional range as an actor, even breaking down sobbing in a few of his films, something I can't recall Bogart ever doing.
Black Legion.

Forgot about BLACK LEGION; that's probably the only time Bogart got the chance to play such a scene and he's quite moving. The thing with Cagney is he also sang and danced, and had a few biopics under his belt. He pretty much covers all aspects of his talents in YANKEE DOODLE DANDY - it really is a tour de force performance by any standards.
True. I find that Bogart could be quietly moving on occasion, as in The Caine Mutiny. Jimmy Cagney was such a different sort of player, hyper-emotional, demonstrative, and tending to be warm in his feelings toward other people,--or hot, as the case may be--while Bogart was more of a cool customer, often hinting at depths of feeling well beneath his surface persona, he seldom expressed them in an outright manner.
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cabmangray
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August 9th, 2018, 7:14 pm #152

Bogart, to me, was always convincing as a hard case. Especially in films like DEAD RECKONING, BIG SLEEP & MALTESE FALCON. Raymond Chandler said it best: "Alan Ladd is a small child's idea of a tough guy but Bogart is the genuine article. He can be tough without a gun. He has that grating undertone of contempt when dealing with the enemy".

It's strange seeing Bogie in RETURN OF DR. X, but the film was Jack Warner's form of punishment for being a "bad boy". Bogie always wanted to stretch as an actor but being legally bound to Warner meant one gangster role after another. Bogie would often rebel and refuse certain roles, which meant several weeks or months spent on suspension. But Bogart was no dummy; after a while he stashed away enough to ride these suspensions out. He would call this tapping his "F.Y." account.  When he finally relented and came back to the studio, Jack Warner would put him into bad "B" films as punishment. RETURN OF DR.X was one as well as SWING YOUR LADY which Bogart said was "the worst piece of s hit I ever appeared in".

A quick story about Bogie & Rod Steiger. Bogart, originally a stage trained actor had no use for "the method" which Rod Steiger was famous for adopting. When both were making THE HARDER THEY FALL Bogart would sometimes say in a needling way to people visiting him " come on, let's go watch Steiger internalize".
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telegonus
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August 9th, 2018, 11:41 pm #153

cabmangray wrote: Bogart, to me, was always convincing as a hard case. Especially in films like DEAD RECKONING, BIG SLEEP & MALTESE FALCON. Raymond Chandler said it best: "Alan Ladd is a small child's idea of a tough guy but Bogart is the genuine article. He can be tough without a gun. He has that grating undertone of contempt when dealing with the enemy".

It's strange seeing Bogie in RETURN OF DR. X, but the film was Jack Warner's form of punishment for being a "bad boy". Bogie always wanted to stretch as an actor but being legally bound to Warner meant one gangster role after another. Bogie would often rebel and refuse certain roles, which meant several weeks or months spent on suspension. But Bogart was no dummy; after a while he stashed away enough to ride these suspensions out. He would call this tapping his "F.Y." account.  When he finally relented and came back to the studio, Jack Warner would put him into bad "B" films as punishment. RETURN OF DR.X was one as well as SWING YOUR LADY which Bogart said was "the worst piece of s hit I ever appeared in".

A quick story about Bogie & Rod Steiger. Bogart, originally a stage trained actor had no use for "the method" which Rod Steiger was famous for adopting. When both were making THE HARDER THEY FALL Bogart would sometimes say in a needling way to people visiting him " come on, let's go watch Steiger internalize".
Interesting about Bogart and Steger, Cabman. Steiger really was a dyed in the wool Method Man back then. I like his early work in films and television, though. He was overshadowed by Bogart in The Harder They Fall, as I see it anyway, but he was mesmerizing as Al Capone, which isn't the same as saying wholly convincing. Closer to operatic. That was a good movie, and Steiger rose to the occasion. I don't of Bogart as in any way the superior actor of the two. He was the greater star, and more charismatic, but I do find Steiger an outstanding actor. 
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blufeld
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August 10th, 2018, 12:00 pm #154

Especially in THE AMITYVILLE HORROR?
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horrorfilmx
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August 10th, 2018, 12:09 pm #155

telegonus wrote: Interesting about Bogart and Steger, Cabman. Steiger really was a dyed in the wool Method Man back then. I like his early work in films and television, though.
Ernest Borgnine won an Oscar as Marty, but I thought Steiger was even better in the original TV version. 
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telegonus
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August 11th, 2018, 5:33 am #156

horrorfilmx wrote:
telegonus wrote: Interesting about Bogart and Steger, Cabman. Steiger really was a dyed in the wool Method Man back then. I like his early work in films and television, though.
Ernest Borgnine won an Oscar as Marty, but I thought Steiger was even better in the original TV version. 
Steiger was a better, more accomplished actor overall; than Borgnine, I mean. Yet for the movie I think that Ernie nailed it. When he was happy and upbeat he was wholly credible, and pathos was in my opinion good enough for the emotionally isolated, forlorn Marty,--but that's me.
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horrorfilmx
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August 11th, 2018, 12:36 pm #157

telegonus wrote:
horrorfilmx wrote:
telegonus wrote: Interesting about Bogart and Steger, Cabman. Steiger really was a dyed in the wool Method Man back then. I like his early work in films and television, though.
Ernest Borgnine won an Oscar as Marty, but I thought Steiger was even better in the original TV version. 
Steiger was a better, more accomplished actor overall; than Borgnine, I mean. Yet for the movie I think that Ernie nailed it. When he was happy and upbeat he was wholly credible, and pathos was in my opinion good enough for the emotionally isolated, forlorn Marty,--but that's me.
Oh, I like Borgnine and he was very effective in Marty --- I just think Steiger was somewhat more effective in the part. But. as you put it, that's me. I also prefer Jack Palance in the original Requiem for a Heavyweight to Anthony Quinn in the movie version. 
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Bluesman Mark
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August 11th, 2018, 10:52 pm #158

horrorfilmx wrote:Oh, I like Borgnine and he was very effective in Marty --- I just think Steiger was somewhat more effective in the part. But. as you put it, that's me. I also prefer Jack Palance in the original Requiem for a Heavyweight to Anthony Quinn in the movie version. 
Totally personal preference as to actors here. but I'd take Palance over Quinn in most roles.
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FrozenGhost
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August 12th, 2018, 3:04 am #159

It's regrettable Steiger had such a small role in DOCTOR ZHIVAGO. The film actually comes to life whenever he's on the screen and it's easily the best performance in the picture.

Now getting back to THE RETURN OF DR. X.......
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blufeld
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August 12th, 2018, 4:04 pm #160

Just a little quibble. Roger Smith never played Lon, Jr-he played Creighton Tull Chaney.
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