Wich2
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Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

August 6th, 2018, 3:47 pm #41

dinost wrote: To be fair, we did well except for one post.
And that should be the governing factor. Among mature adults, no topic should be taboo - only immature behavior.
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Wich2
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Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

August 6th, 2018, 4:09 pm #42

The Batman of Gotham wrote:
Monsterpal wrote: Jesus Caviezel shed enough blood in this movie to drown three slaughterhouses. Crucifixion was slow death by asphyxiation, not bleeding out.
True.  Not visually accurate - as I stated above, carried to an extreme.

- GJS 
As I and others wrote above, Gibson most definitely went overboard. BUT -

- what does need to be kept in mind, is the total physical trauma that Rabbi Yeshua from Nazareth was subjected to:

Flogging by spiked flagrum:



(Bone shards for cutting, lead balls for heft.)

"Crowning" with Capparis spinosa or the like:



And the final live nailing to a tree:



(Usually, feet and wrists - on the right, an actual example from the era.)
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bromstaker
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August 6th, 2018, 6:36 pm #43

For several years prior to the release The Passion of the Christ I would occasionally say to my wife that someone needed to make a Jesus film that thoroughly depicted the ordeal He went through. Gibson did just that - and then some!  It wasn't so much that the violence was over-the-top but that the camera lingers on the graphic detail of the violence. I saw the film in the theater when it was first released, and it did what it was intended to do, but I've never had a desire to re-watch it.    
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Monsterpal
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August 6th, 2018, 11:11 pm #44

The largest human bodies contain about 5.5 liters of blood. That's about a gallon and a half. How much do you think the character in this movie shed?
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blufeld
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August 7th, 2018, 3:44 pm #45

Assuming Jesus  was human (divine or not), could he have survived the scourging and all he went through, and carry the cross?  That's one of the reasons Gibson went too far.
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bromstaker
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August 7th, 2018, 6:42 pm #46

blufeld wrote: Assuming Jesus  was human (divine or not), could he have survived the scourging and all he went through, and carry the cross?  That's one of the reasons Gibson went too far.
Blue, according to the synoptic gospels (Matthew; Mark; Luke) a man named Simon of Cyrene was enlisted to carry the cross (or more likely cross beam) at some point on the way to Golgotha. While not stated explicitly this strongly suggests that Jesus was unable to do it himself given the ordeal he'd undergone up to that point.

David: A little lattitude please. I'm not trying to get into a whole discourse on the gospels, just trying to provide an answer to Bluefield.  
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Wich2
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August 7th, 2018, 11:36 pm #47

bromstaker wrote:

Blue, according to the synoptic gospels (Matthew; Mark; Luke) a man named Simon of Cyrene was enlisted to carry the cross (or more likely cross beam) at some point on the way to Golgotha. While not stated explicitly this strongly suggests that Jesus was unable to do it himself given the ordeal he'd undergone up to that point.
Exactly so, brom. And several of the films discussed here (including GIBSON's) have portrayed that moment in the story. 

the-greatest-story-ever-told-1965-max-von-sydow-gstt-005-l-bkb5df.jpg (^STEVENS)

Some films also employ the (probably more accurate, as you say) crossbeam rather than cross.

zeff.jpg.jpg

(^ZEFFIRELLI)
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blufeld
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August 8th, 2018, 3:19 pm #48

I thought Sidney Poitier plays Simon in THE GREASTEST STORY EVER TOLD,  but that doesn't look like him.  And Jesus doesn't like Max Von Sydow, but maybe it's a trick of the camera.
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Wich2
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August 8th, 2018, 3:53 pm #49

Those are them, blu.
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hermanthegerm
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August 8th, 2018, 5:36 pm #50

The Passion of the Christ (2004)

The Passion of the Christ (2004) has more impact simply because it's moving (instead of still) pictures, but it is no more violent, or disturbing, than innumerable 'religious' art (sculpture, paintings, etc.) dating from early Christianity. 

It's a grand tradition.

Is it a Horror film? 
It certainly is.

I've learned to accept these popular theatrical recreations of sacred stories, though they were bewildering to a young Catholic boy. 
I now dispassionately look at them more as kitsch than anything else. 
Actually, I thought they were in bad taste, even then.
"There is a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom when something blows up, so I'll give them a boom."

George Lucas as quoted by Harlan Ellison's WATCHING
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blufeld
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August 9th, 2018, 3:05 pm #51

hermanthegerm wrote: The Passion of the Christ (2004)

The Passion of the Christ (2004) has more impact simply because it's moving (instead of still) pictures, but it is no more violent, or disturbing, than innumerable 'religious' art (sculpture, paintings, etc.) dating from early Christianity. 



I have to admit, I've never seen any art that even gets close the violence of the film.  But I'm not a great lover of art of the violence.
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hermanthegerm
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August 9th, 2018, 3:19 pm #52

blufeld wrote:
hermanthegerm wrote: The Passion of the Christ (2004)

The Passion of the Christ (2004) has more impact simply because it's moving (instead of still) pictures, but it is no more violent, or disturbing, than innumerable 'religious' art (sculpture, paintings, etc.) dating from early Christianity. 



I have to admit, I've never seen any art that even gets close the violence of the film.  But I'm not a great lover of art of the violence.
Flaying, beheading, nipple cutting, eye gouging, multiple forms of torture, you name it. If you can mutilate a human body in any way it's all there for the sake of religious instruction. Not all artists have the same ability to realistically depict what they are attempting to do, but even in the cruder pieces the violence comes thru. And this is not limited to Christian artists, go around the world and you'll see the same all over.
Last edited by hermanthegerm on August 10th, 2018, 7:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"There is a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom when something blows up, so I'll give them a boom."

George Lucas as quoted by Harlan Ellison's WATCHING
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blufeld
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August 9th, 2018, 6:11 pm #53

I'll stick with Norman Rockwell.
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Monsterpal
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August 9th, 2018, 6:21 pm #54

This would explain why a slasher film is a  religious experience to gorehounds.
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Joined: April 22nd, 2007, 10:37 pm

August 10th, 2018, 8:29 pm #55

Not all artists have the same ability to realistically depict what they are attempting to do, but the concept comes thru

Not always, imo. There's Dali's "Christ of Saint John of the Cross", which is probably the most famous crucifixion painted in the 20th century, He was an incredibly skilled technician as far as manipulating the paint &  very capable of disgusting  an audience, and Dali just painted a pretty, kitsch picture.

Russ
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hermanthegerm
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August 10th, 2018, 9:47 pm #56

professor liebstrum wrote:
Not all artists have the same ability to realistically depict what they are attempting to do, but the concept comes thru

Not always, imo. There's Dali's "Christ of Saint John of the Cross", which is probably the most famous crucifixion painted in the 20th century, He was an incredibly skilled technician as far as manipulating the paint &  very capable of disgusting  an audience, and Dali just painted a pretty, kitsch picture.

Russ
Religious or not, Dali's art probably did not have the same intent as medieval artists directing their imagery to a (mostly) illiterate, impressionable public.
"There is a lot of money tied up in this film and people expect to hear a boom when something blows up, so I'll give them a boom."

George Lucas as quoted by Harlan Ellison's WATCHING
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