Monsterkid
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Joined: March 23rd, 2015, 2:34 am

April 28th, 2018, 11:39 pm #601

ryanbrennan wrote:
Monsterkid wrote:
TomWeaver999 wrote: I gotta stick to my curmudgeonly guns. This situation is like a nursing home that decides to let people vote on what Muzak is played all day, and on "Election Day" the place fills up with young people who don't live there voting for rap music (which wins), and then they all disappear from the place -- until they hear about the next "election."

If most of the hundreds of voters who picked SUSPIRIA actively posted here, I'd be okay with it. But going by the teensy SUSPIRIA Blu-ray thread, obviously they don't. Next they'll be voting under the names of dead people, Chicago-style. Crazy kids! Get off our lawn!!
LOL. You nearly made me blow coffee threw my nose! 

To be fair, however, the Rondo Award is not "The Classic Horror Film Board Award", and its better that it represents a wider fan base. I feel that the Rondo truly represents the fans the best. The heck with the Academy Awards, or Golden Globes, give me the Rondo!!!

Talking about thread counts, the top 4 categories here are; 1) Universal Horrors, 2) 50's Horror and Sci-Fi, 3) Current Films, and 4) Coming Soon. So by sub-forum count, classic horror and modern horror have equal followings here.
I posted the top threads on the board on the previous page.  Here they are again:

#05 -- TV TERRORS offers readers 62.0K posts.  A generalized thread that covers the entire spectrum of TV history.  A look at the first page shows old and new shows discussed but there seem to be more older shows.
#04 -- 50s HORROR AND SCI-FI commands 79.3K posts.  The golden age folder for science fiction film aficionados.
#03 -- UNIVERSAL HORRORS fetches an impressive 104.2K.  The first old school, classic film thread to break 100k posts.
#02 -- CLASSIC HORROR ON DVD AND BLU-RAY garners 124.9K posts.  Another generalized thread with a broad range of interests represented.  Again, both old and new movies are announced for release but on the first page older films predominate.

And weighing in at the #1 position, the folder with the greatest variety and, therefore, the broadest appeal of any folder on the CHFB is (a trumpet herald sounds):

#01 -- OFF TOPIC with an impressive 173.2K posts.  I'd consider this a neutral folder.

The TV and DVD folders cover a wide variety of films old and new.  Only two threads in the top five clearly point a finger to the classics.  While we do discuss newer films, no folder devoted exclusively to newer films makes it to the top five.

The next five are:

#06 -- BOOKS AND MAGAZINES banks 58.6.  A general folder with emphasis on magazines and books devoted to the classic era.
#07 -- FINAL FAREWELLS finds 52.4.  Another general folder covering a broad spectrum of people in public and private life.  I'd consider this a neutral folder.
#08 -- CURRENT FILMS collects 47.8.  Obviously, geared toward what's out now.
#09 -- COMING SOON corrals 43.9.  Another one that's obvious in its focus on upcoming new movies.
#10 -- TALKIN' HORROR, FANTASY, AND SCI-FI takes 42.4.  A general folder for all aspects of the genre but does seem to skew towards the nostalgic.

Conclusion: 2 neutral threads, 2 threads for new movies, 6 threads that are mixed or devoted to the classics.
I understand your point that on this board Pre-1969 films are the majority of films discussed, however, as I stated, The Rondo Awards are not the CHFB Awards. The award represents a wide horror fan base. There are many forums, online communities, genre podcasts, etc... that focus on newer (post 1969) films. Should that fan base not have a voice.

I can tell you that I followed more Rondo discussions, recommendations, etc... on Twitter and Instagram than I did here. It was a very active topic. People were sharing ballot links, and not always with any agenda.

To assume that Rondo voters only come here, promote their agenda and leave is short sited, I am sure it happens, but its a small lot. The Horror Community is broad, and the Rondos are getting well deserved recognition to a much larger group. That's a good thing, it means our community, with all of it's sub-groups, is thriving.

The best part, winner or not, we have both a restored Old Dark House, and Suspiria last year with tons more coming.
Check out my Vintage Poster and Mask Collection at TheHauntedCinema.com
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taraco
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taraco
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April 28th, 2018, 11:46 pm #602

This is always a tough call, especially in a year when amazing and true 'classic' films such as OLD DARK HOUSE, LOST WORLD, VAMPIRE BAT, DELUGE, LODGER, CALTIKI and several others were in the running.
The-Old-Dark-House.jpg
That said, should films like SUSPIRIA not be included?  In the past, we've avoided more recent DVD offerings. I think only one SAW film was ever nominated, and we remember being loudly criticized when two excellent but 'recent' documentaries -- one about the making of JAWS, the other about FRIDAY THE 13th -- weren't nominated.

But when the final decisions are made about nominations -- and though I seek a lot of input, the final decisions on what makes the ballot are usually mine -- I try to include anything that has a 'classic' and/or historic feel.

To me, SUSPIRIA, a bloody but highly influential early giallo, easily qualifies as a film that should be embraced by the classic horror electorate, even if we vote for other choices. It seems 'one of us.'
suspiria.jpg
Now one answer MIGHT be to add a separate category for classic films vs. more recent offerings, but frankly I really don't want to give my wife yet another statuette to paint!!  Kidding, but the expense of the Rondos is a real concern. Still, somehow separating things might be an answer. (Though a 40-year-old film is hardly a recent nominee.)

Another option might be to limit voting to CHFB members or something, which we've discussed from the very beginning, but that seems limiting and a self-fulfilling extinction. Won't do that.

Truth be told, I think it's healthy for the entire genre that the Rondos have gone so mainstream in this viral age.

Most of the criticism now is about things NOT nominated -- many of which are far from 'classic'.  The Rondos have been receiving online criticism, much of it valid, for ignoring more modern horror and writings, or for not being diverse enough, although it is getting better as the field itself expands.

At the same time, voters looking for SUSPIRIA, PHANTASM or wondering why KILL DRILLER IX wasn't nominated are also seeing titles like OLD DARK HOUSE and ONE MILLION B.C., things they might not have known existed.

So rest assured even as we tweak or adjust, the Rondos will always be the Rondo Hatton CLASSIC Horror Awards.  And suggestions always welcome.

david
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ryanbrennan
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Joined: December 5th, 2004, 2:56 am

April 29th, 2018, 1:07 am #603

Monsterkid wrote:
ryanbrennan wrote:
Monsterkid wrote:

LOL. You nearly made me blow coffee threw my nose! 

To be fair, however, the Rondo Award is not "The Classic Horror Film Board Award", and its better that it represents a wider fan base. I feel that the Rondo truly represents the fans the best. The heck with the Academy Awards, or Golden Globes, give me the Rondo!!!

Talking about thread counts, the top 4 categories here are; 1) Universal Horrors, 2) 50's Horror and Sci-Fi, 3) Current Films, and 4) Coming Soon. So by sub-forum count, classic horror and modern horror have equal followings here.
I posted the top threads on the board on the previous page.  Here they are again:

#05 -- TV TERRORS offers readers 62.0K posts.  A generalized thread that covers the entire spectrum of TV history.  A look at the first page shows old and new shows discussed but there seem to be more older shows.
#04 -- 50s HORROR AND SCI-FI commands 79.3K posts.  The golden age folder for science fiction film aficionados.
#03 -- UNIVERSAL HORRORS fetches an impressive 104.2K.  The first old school, classic film thread to break 100k posts.
#02 -- CLASSIC HORROR ON DVD AND BLU-RAY garners 124.9K posts.  Another generalized thread with a broad range of interests represented.  Again, both old and new movies are announced for release but on the first page older films predominate.

And weighing in at the #1 position, the folder with the greatest variety and, therefore, the broadest appeal of any folder on the CHFB is (a trumpet herald sounds):

#01 -- OFF TOPIC with an impressive 173.2K posts.  I'd consider this a neutral folder.

The TV and DVD folders cover a wide variety of films old and new.  Only two threads in the top five clearly point a finger to the classics.  While we do discuss newer films, no folder devoted exclusively to newer films makes it to the top five.

The next five are:

#06 -- BOOKS AND MAGAZINES banks 58.6.  A general folder with emphasis on magazines and books devoted to the classic era.
#07 -- FINAL FAREWELLS finds 52.4.  Another general folder covering a broad spectrum of people in public and private life.  I'd consider this a neutral folder.
#08 -- CURRENT FILMS collects 47.8.  Obviously, geared toward what's out now.
#09 -- COMING SOON corrals 43.9.  Another one that's obvious in its focus on upcoming new movies.
#10 -- TALKIN' HORROR, FANTASY, AND SCI-FI takes 42.4.  A general folder for all aspects of the genre but does seem to skew towards the nostalgic.

Conclusion: 2 neutral threads, 2 threads for new movies, 6 threads that are mixed or devoted to the classics.
I understand your point that on this board Pre-1969 films are the majority of films discussed, however, as I stated, The Rondo Awards are not the CHFB Awards. The award represents a wide horror fan base. There are many forums, online communities, genre podcasts, etc... that focus on newer (post 1969) films. Should that fan base not have a voice.

I can tell you that I followed more Rondo discussions, recommendations, etc... on Twitter and Instagram than I did here. It was a very active topic. People were sharing ballot links, and not always with any agenda.

To assume that Rondo voters only come here, promote their agenda and leave is short sited, I am sure it happens, but its a small lot. The Horror Community is broad, and the Rondos are getting well deserved recognition to a much larger group. That's a good thing, it means our community, with all of it's sub-groups, is thriving.

The best part, winner or not, we have both a restored Old Dark House, and Suspiria last year with tons more coming.
Sorry, Monsterkid, I wasn't saying others shouldn't be represented or that the Rondos are an exclusive reflection of taste at the CHFB.  Just sayin' that your top four, used as a proof, was a bit off and, as a board, the CHFB skews towards the past even though we have healthy doses of newer stuff.  I don't have any problem with the entire world of Horror, Science Fiction, and Fantasy being represented at the CHFB.  That's what makes the CHFB Number One.  That people from outside the small world of the CHFBers get involved is healthy.
Last edited by ryanbrennan on April 29th, 2018, 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Monsterkid
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Joined: March 23rd, 2015, 2:34 am

April 29th, 2018, 1:14 am #604

taraco wrote: This is always a tough call, especially in a year when amazing and true 'classic' films such as OLD DARK HOUSE, LOST WORLD, VAMPIRE BAT, DELUGE, LODGER, CALTIKI and several others were in the running.
The Caltiki release was freaking great, and Arrow even released the soundtrack on vinyl (which is also great)!!!! This is a great time for horror and sci-fi.
Check out my Vintage Poster and Mask Collection at TheHauntedCinema.com
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:37 pm

April 29th, 2018, 7:19 am #605

I'm all for making the Rondos classic horror ONLY!  Post 1974 or 1977 or 1981 or whatever can have the SUSPIRIA AWARDS.
"I should like to think that an irate Jehovah, was pointing those arrows of lightning directly at my head!"
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Monsterkid
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April 29th, 2018, 1:51 pm #606

Allen Champion wrote: I'm all for making the Rondos classic horror ONLY!  Post 1974 or 1977 or 1981 or whatever can have the SUSPIRIA AWARDS.
It would make it easy to vote. The categories could be shrunk down by half. No more "Best movie of the 20XX", "Best T.V."  could be gone, dump "Best Independent" or just give it to either Joshua Kennedy or Christopher Mimm, Best Magazine could also alternate between Scary Monsters, Monster Bash, or Classic Monsters of the Movies (all of the others split their time between classic and contemporary so they are disqualified), that also simplifies "Best Article" and "Best Cover". 

For multi-media we could also just do year sharing with the 3 or 4 shows ONLY designated for pre-1969 (I'm not really sure if there are 3 or 4 that fit the narrow qualifications) say, Monsterkid Radio (which I love), and ...? not sure, The Naschy cast would have to go, as well as Bloody Pit of Rod...hmmm. 

As we get further along, the "Best DVD/Bluray" category will shrink as studios lose interest or have emptied the vaults, "Best Restoration" will just come down to what ever film I like better (heck with the restoration work involved, but there will only be a couple to pick from anyway) so that makes it easy.

Yep. The more I think about it the more I like it. It would be less work for everyone and much less stressful anticipation.
Check out my Vintage Poster and Mask Collection at TheHauntedCinema.com
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Monsterkid
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Joined: March 23rd, 2015, 2:34 am

April 29th, 2018, 2:13 pm #607

I apologize if my last post sounded "snarky", its just that I am passionate about this genre. Recently, I have watched The Old Dark House, Daughters of Darkness, The Fog, Friday the 13th Part VI; Jason Lives, and 47 Meters Down. I enjoyed each tremendously, and they represented very different eras of horror.

No other genre that I know of has this breadth of sub-genres that have passionate fans who normally drift easily between eras. Everyday there are new fans dipping their toes in our pool and usually come at it from movies like It, A Quiet Place, The Autopsy of Jane Doe, or any of the other new releases to hit the theaters.

We should embrace these new fans and introduce them to the foundations of the genre like Frankenstein, Creature with the Atom Brain, or Forbidden Planet. This will spark interest in the studios to restore and revive these classics because new fans are clamoring for them.

The Rondos are a great access point for new fans.
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TomWeaver999
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Joined: November 22nd, 2004, 3:38 am

April 29th, 2018, 3:28 pm #608

My impression is that the average young Monster Kid in 2018 wouldn't buy and try out THE OLD DARK HOUSE on some geezer's recommendation unless there were two guns to his head.
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bigcatrik
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Joined: April 7th, 2014, 1:20 am

April 29th, 2018, 5:03 pm #609

taraco wrote:
April 28th, 2018, 11:46 pm
Now one answer MIGHT be to add a separate category for classic films vs. more recent offerings, but frankly I really don't want to give my wife yet another statuette to paint!!  Kidding, but the expense of the Rondos is a real concern. Still, somehow separating things might be an answer. (Though a 40-year-old film is hardly a recent nominee.)
To my mind, there's a big difference between films made under the explicit restrictions of film decency boards vs. the self-censorship/ratings system ca. 1970 and beyond.

It's easier to think of those young Rondo voters watching "Saw" followed by "Suspiria" than watching "Saw" followed by anything in the 60s or prior. The filmmakers were playing by very different rules.

There's also the fact that major technical awards in the big leagues are often voted on by peer groups rather than the general voting group.
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Elisabeth
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Joined: December 5th, 2009, 7:25 am

April 30th, 2018, 3:27 am #610

Well, I converted my mid-twenties nephew to Silent Films, with METROPOLIS and THE ADVENTURES OF PRINCE ACHMED.  He also enjoys PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, with Chaney, Sr. and WOLFMAN, with Chaney, Jr.

"E"
Your Signature ... "....I do hope he won't upset Henry..."
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:37 pm

April 30th, 2018, 4:45 am #611

Monsterkid wrote:
Allen Champion wrote: I'm all for making the Rondos classic horror ONLY!  Post 1974 or 1977 or 1981 or whatever can have the SUSPIRIA AWARDS.
It would make it easy to vote. The categories could be shrunk down by half. No more "Best movie of the 20XX", "Best T.V."  could be gone, dump "Best Independent" or just give it to either Joshua Kennedy or Christopher Mimm, Best Magazine could also alternate between Scary Monsters, Monster Bash, or Classic Monsters of the Movies (all of the others split their time between classic and contemporary so they are disqualified), that also simplifies "Best Article" and "Best Cover". 

For multi-media we could also just do year sharing with the 3 or 4 shows ONLY designated for pre-1969 (I'm not really sure if there are 3 or 4 that fit the narrow qualifications) say, Monsterkid Radio (which I love), and ...? not sure, The Naschy cast would have to go, as well as Bloody Pit of Rod...hmmm. 

As we get further along, the "Best DVD/Bluray" category will shrink as studios lose interest or have emptied the vaults, "Best Restoration" will just come down to what ever film I like better (heck with the restoration work involved, but there will only be a couple to pick from anyway) so that makes it easy.

Yep. The more I think about it the more I like it. It would be less work for everyone and much less stressful anticipation.
But they will have THE SUSPIRIA AWARDS, which will so revive the genre that film studios only make horror movies, DVD/BD will make a great comeback with THE SUSPIRIA COLLECTION OF GREAT HORROR FILMS SPECIAL EDITIONS, new horror magazines celebrating blood gore and torture porn will proliferate, Podcasts will rise from the grave to promote all the new films, books, and TV shows, and to top it, all SUSPIRIA AWARD winners get splattered with fake blood when they accept their award (like baseball players get doused with ice water when they hit a homer).  
(BTW No Snark intended, its all in good fun!)
"I should like to think that an irate Jehovah, was pointing those arrows of lightning directly at my head!"
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May 1st, 2018, 3:07 pm #612

>I too voted for THE OLD DARK HOUSE.

>But...I do love SUSPIRIA and feel no need to diminish its worth in order to boost OLD DARK HOUSE or GOG or anything else. 

Agree on both counts. I still maintain ODH was the bigger accomplishment and should have won the award, but the new Suspiria is also a thing of beauty, worthy of the highest praise.
MacXoftheMounted.....................formerly known as Professor Von X
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taraco
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taraco
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Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 5:37 am

May 1st, 2018, 3:09 pm #613

Not to be forgotten is that Tim Lanza, who was responsible for THE OLD DARK HOUSE restoration, was named MONSTER KID OF THE YEAR.
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Smoot
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May 1st, 2018, 4:34 pm #614

A difference of just 6 or 7 years in a person's age will totally change what that person views as an old film. I have friends with that much difference who see me as the old Universal Pictures fanatic and they consider themselves the Hammer Films fanatic (although I really love both).

If a reward category does not take a time period into account, one will always see the older films fall by the wayside in terms of votes. 

For awards, there will never be a better solution than having a dividing line in the date or era of film releases.

And the poorest solution of all is to not bring young people into the fold: 
I've seen film conventions either fold or lessen due to the old fogies who want to sit in rooms running scratched & faded 16mm prints while shunning young people who make an attempt to enter and join in convention activities.

Around 8 years ago when The Complete Metropolis was screened at a theater in Greensboro NC, I took my then 17-year-old to see it. He said very little. A week later I found out that he was taking friends to multiple screenings and they were loving the film.
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haraldg
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May 2nd, 2018, 5:20 pm #615

TomWeaver999 wrote: My impression is that the average young Monster Kid in 2018 wouldn't buy and try out THE OLD DARK HOUSE on some geezer's recommendation unless there were two guns to his head.
Happy to report that I converted a 25 year old guy not only to THE OLD DARK HOUSE, but to RETURN OF THE APE MAN as well. :-)
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Godziwolf
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May 2nd, 2018, 7:38 pm #616

VinnieRattolle wrote: Personally, I don't understand the acclaim for "Suspiria." Yes, it has some beautiful technicolor visuals and an awesome Goblin soundtrack, I will absolutely give it credit for that. But the performances alternate between amateurish and over-the-top (including both in star Jessica Harper, whom I usually adore), the story might've made for a good short film but there's not enough meat to sustain a feature (too many overlong spots of tedious nothingness), and the dubbing is atrocious across the board. It's a glaring example of style over substance.
We knew all of that as soon as we saw it was Italian.
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Godziwolf
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May 2nd, 2018, 7:42 pm #617

Gojira wrote: The funny thing is that Suspiria is 40 years old, a longer period of time than that between Old Dark House being released, its subsequent remake and veneration in books by Clarens, Gifford, Everson, etc.
I will point out that as much time has elapsed between Suspiria and now, as had elapsed between Creature from the Black Lagoon and David Colton's monster kids article. More time has elapsed than had elapsed since The Mysterians.

Face it, it's classic.
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Godziwolf
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May 2nd, 2018, 7:52 pm #618

TomWeaver999 wrote: My impression is that the average young Monster Kid in 2018 wouldn't buy and try out THE OLD DARK HOUSE on some geezer's recommendation unless there were two guns to his head.
For posterity, Tom -- define what you think "young" is.
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Godziwolf
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May 2nd, 2018, 7:55 pm #619

bigcatrik wrote:
taraco wrote: Now one answer MIGHT be to add a separate category for classic films vs. more recent offerings, but frankly I really don't want to give my wife yet another statuette to paint!!  Kidding, but the expense of the Rondos is a real concern. Still, somehow separating things might be an answer. (Though a 40-year-old film is hardly a recent nominee.)
To my mind, there's a big difference between films made under the explicit restrictions of film decency boards vs. the self-censorship/ratings system ca. 1970 and beyond.

It's easier to think of those young Rondo voters watching "Saw" followed by "Suspiria" than watching "Saw" followed by anything in the 60s or prior.  The filmmakers were playing by very different rules.

There's also the fact that major technical awards in the big leagues are often voted on by peer groups rather than the general voting group.
Old Dark House is a pre-code film. It was not made under the explicit restrictions of film decency boards.

\Neither were Dracula, Frankenstein, or Freaks.
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Smoot
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May 2nd, 2018, 8:14 pm #620

haraldg wrote:
TomWeaver999 wrote: My impression is that the average young Monster Kid in 2018 wouldn't buy and try out THE OLD DARK HOUSE on some geezer's recommendation unless there were two guns to his head.
Happy to report that I converted a 25 year old guy not only to THE OLD DARK HOUSE, but to RETURN OF THE APE MAN as well. :-)
Anyone can convert a 25-year old to THE OLD DARK HOUSE (1932), 
but I find it a miracle that you converted him to RETURN OF THE APE MAN !

I'm a Bela Lugosi fanatic (and I have the rugged looking Blu-ray), but I can't even convert myself to that film: No ape man should ever show his BVDs.
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