Wich2
Member
Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

July 11th, 2018, 2:30 am #21

Respectful disagreement. Even using your own yardstick.

Victor never gives up the thirst for vengeance, even asking Walton to take up the cause after he is gone. Throughout their dance with death, Frankenstein seems to hardly even grasp the damage done by his hand.

While The Monster steadily grows in his anguish about his own ~

“Do you think that I was then dead to agony and remorse? He,” he continued, pointing to the corpse, “he suffered not in the consummation of the deed. Oh! Not the ten-thousandth portion of the anguish that was mine during the lingering detail of its execution. A frightful selfishness hurried me on, while my heart was poisoned with remorse. Think you that the groans of Clerval were music to my ears? My heart was fashioned to be susceptible of love and sympathy, and when wrenched by misery to vice and hatred, it did not endure the violence of the change without torture such as you cannot even imagine."
Quote
Like
Share

Kelg
Member
Kelg
Member
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 7:04 am

July 11th, 2018, 3:18 am #22

But the creature kills/frames two people-he then goes to Victor for a companion. Victor, out of compassion and despite his own grief, agrees--but then his conscience dictates--it is dangerous to society to create another creature. A reasonable concern. The creature obviously doesn't see it that way (for understandable reasons) and it leads to more tragedy.

Shelley is quoted as saying the lesson of the story is treat a person ill and they will become bad--but it cuts both ways. The creature, by killing yet another person (Elizabeth), hardens Victor to his vengeance, and in the end, they both have tragic ends.
Quote
Like
Share

Wich2
Member
Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

July 11th, 2018, 3:41 am #23

Kelg wrote: Shelley is quoted as saying the lesson of the story is treat a person ill and they will become bad
And this dramatizer of her tale, set to portray her Hideous Progeny again this Halloween season, takes our author at her word.
Quote
Like
Share

NickMoose
Member
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 2:03 am

July 11th, 2018, 3:49 am #24

I really, truly feel bad for Veronica Carlson in this movie. (Even though I LOVE the movie!) When she screams, "GO AWAY!! FOR GOD's SAKE GO AWAY!!" (One of the most memorable moments in the movie) You think she should be screaming that at Frankenstein!  
  And the ultimate indignity, I think, is the coffee. They always make girls make the coffee in old Sci-Fi films, but with all the other crap she has to go through in this movie, she is still sent off to make the coffee! And after raping her and making her make coffee, he still KILLS her!! Now THAT is a true sociopath! 
Quote
Like
Share

NickMoose
Member
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 2:03 am

July 11th, 2018, 4:39 am #25

Wich2 wrote:
Kelg wrote: Shelley is quoted as saying the lesson of the story is treat a person ill and they will become bad
And this dramatizer of her tale, set to portray her Hideous Progeny again this Halloween season, takes our author at her word.
I love the book but I never compare the Shelley book to any of the Frankenstein flicks. They are just so different. It's like the James Bond movies, which are all totally different (and BETTER in my opinion, or at least more FUN) than the Fleming Bond novels. 
Quote
Like
Share

Robert Summit
Member
Joined: January 11th, 2005, 12:21 am

July 11th, 2018, 5:32 am #26

FRANKENSTEIN MUST BE DESTROYED is my favorite by far of the Hammerfranks, and makes a great double feature with TERROR OF MECHAGODZILLA.  
"Mom! Don't bother me now! I'm posting on the Classic Horror Film Board!"
Quote
Like
Share

Kelg
Member
Kelg
Member
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 7:04 am

July 11th, 2018, 7:35 am #27

NickMoose wrote: I really, truly feel bad for Veronica Carlson in this movie. (Even though I LOVE the movie!) When she screams, "GO AWAY!! FOR GOD's SAKE GO AWAY!!" (One of the most memorable moments in the movie) You think she should be screaming that at Frankenstein!  
 
To make matters worse, he causes her to scream at a friendly neighbor, and then as she is standing there wet and miserable, right there in front of her he has the audacity to have a casual chat with the repair people!
Quote
Like
Share

Wich2
Member
Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

July 11th, 2018, 2:21 pm #28

(Cyberburp)
Last edited by Wich2 on July 11th, 2018, 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Wich2
Member
Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

July 11th, 2018, 2:24 pm #29

NickMoose wrote:
I love the book but I never compare the Shelley book to any of the Frankenstein flicks. They are just so different. 
Not all of them.

BRIDE has a good deal of Shelley in it; the Dan Curtis and Randy Quaid versions, more; and the Per Oscarsson and Hallmark versions, great gouts of her.
Quote
Like
Share

Wich2
Member
Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

July 11th, 2018, 2:27 pm #30

NickMoose wrote:
 It's like the James Bond movies, which are all totally different (and BETTER in my opinion, or at least more FUN) than the Fleming Bond novels. 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

(I respect your opinion, but...)
Quote
Like
Share

marbpl2
Member
Joined: May 8th, 2008, 5:52 pm

July 11th, 2018, 10:18 pm #31

Wich2 wrote:
NickMoose wrote:
I love the book but I never compare the Shelley book to any of the Frankenstein flicks. They are just so different. 
Not all of them.

BRIDE has a good deal of Shelley in it; the Dan Curtis and Randy Quaid versions, more; and the Per Oscarsson and Hallmark versions, great gouts of her.
Some in the David Warner one, and even Mary Shelley's Frankenstein with De Niro.
Quote
Like
Share

NickMoose
Member
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 2:03 am

July 11th, 2018, 10:20 pm #32

Wich2 wrote:
NickMoose wrote:
 It's like the James Bond movies, which are all totally different (and BETTER in my opinion, or at least more FUN) than the Fleming Bond novels. 
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

(I respect your opinion, but...)
I think I loved the Bond films because of the campy qualities, the quips, the one one liners, the ridiculous larger than life villains, etc. You just don't get enough of that it in the books. You don't get the over the top fun quality that the movies have.  The books are good but they have a far more realistic feeling. (To be fair I have not read that many of them.) I think that is why I never got into the Daniel Craig Bond films. They felt  closer to the source material, but I wanted more fun!  (And to be fair , I've also only watched two of the Daniel Craig Bond movies before giving up on those. Maybe they DID get more fun after that and I just didn't see it!) 
Quote
Like
Share

NickMoose
Member
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 2:03 am

July 11th, 2018, 10:38 pm #33

Wich2 wrote:
NickMoose wrote:
I love the book but I never compare the Shelley book to any of the Frankenstein flicks. They are just so different. 
Not all of them.

BRIDE has a good deal of Shelley in it; the Dan Curtis and Randy Quaid versions, more; and the Per Oscarsson and Hallmark versions, great gouts of her.
Yeah but in the book , the bride never even gets off the operating table! All of the things that I think are truly great about Bride of Frankenstein (The look of the bride, Dr. Pretorious, the bride screaming at the monster, the "We belong Dead." line.) ALL of that stuff was from the movie, not the book!  (I agree, you are right that there are other film adaptations that come much closer to the story but I mostly watch the Universal and Hammer flicks and I enjoy the book as it's own thing. ) 
Quote
Like
Share

NickMoose
Member
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 2:03 am

July 11th, 2018, 11:23 pm #34

Kelg wrote:
NickMoose wrote: I really, truly feel bad for Veronica Carlson in this movie. (Even though I LOVE the movie!) When she screams, "GO AWAY!! FOR GOD's SAKE GO AWAY!!" (One of the most memorable moments in the movie) You think she should be screaming that at Frankenstein!  
 
To make matters worse, he causes her to scream at a friendly neighbor, and then as she is standing there wet and miserable, right there in front of her he has the audacity to have a casual chat with the repair people!
Yes, I think in this film, Frankenstein is truly more evil than Dracula ever has been! At least Drac always has the an excuse for being so inhuman! (He's not human!) 
Quote
Like
Share

Jameselliot
Member
Joined: June 23rd, 2012, 11:09 pm

July 12th, 2018, 2:32 am #35

Clive is a pitiful Frankenstein in both films, weak, fearful, physically unhealthy looking, neurotic, prone to hysterics. The Cushing version would have looked at him with disdain. All I remember about the Sting Frankenstein is Jennifer Beals. The Baron is at his most reprehensible in Destroyed but still comes across as anti-hero, not villain, thanks to Cushing.
Quote
Like
Share

Wich2
Member
Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

July 12th, 2018, 2:46 am #36

Jameselliot wrote: Clive is a pitiful Frankenstein in both films, weak, fearful, physically unhealthy looking, neurotic, prone to hysterics. 
Shelley's Victor.
Quote
Like
Share

Tumak
Member
Joined: June 20th, 2006, 2:49 am

July 12th, 2018, 5:32 am #37

NickMoose wrote: I think that is why I never got into the Daniel Craig Bond films. They felt  closer to the source material, but I wanted more fun!  (And to be fair , I've also only watched two of the Daniel Craig Bond movies before giving up on those. Maybe they DID get more fun after that and I just didn't see it!) 
After deconstructing "movie" Bond in his first two movies, Craig's next two films sort of reconstruct "movie" Bond to what we're used to (although it's not immediately apparent; be patient). Still, they may not capture the fun you look for, but perhaps you should give them a chance. 
Quote
Like
Share

Godziwolf
Member
Joined: December 7th, 2008, 5:04 pm

July 12th, 2018, 2:37 pm #38

Rick wrote:
I feel that the Hammer Frankenstein series was able to maintain a higher standard than their Dracula series.  While Frankenstein Must Be Destroyed is probably the one I admire most, I have almost equal love for Curse, Revenge, Created Woman and Monster From Hell.  I put Evil in the like category, but it's aping of Universal themes negates what made Hammer's approach to Frankenstein fresh and inventive. 
 My take is that the Frankenstein series was as up and down in quality as the Dracula. If you choose to include BRIDES OF DRACULA, then the Dracula group features two genuinely great horror films to zero for the Frankensteins. (Much as I love MUST BE DESTROYED, I don't think it quite achieves "greatness." 

And the Frankenstein series contains the worst film, easily, of either group in HORROR OF FRANKENSTEIN.
I'd take Horror of Frankenstein over Dracula A.D. 1972, and I think Curse qualifies as a great horror film.
Quote
Like
Share

Godziwolf
Member
Joined: December 7th, 2008, 5:04 pm

July 12th, 2018, 2:43 pm #39

Wich2 wrote: Frankenstein is the ULTIMATE "Deadbeat Dad." (Or as Forry might have written it, "DEAD-beat, Dad!")
It is interesting how much guff Frankenstein gets for being cruel to his creations, whereas that's glossed entirely in the case of Dracula.

Difference between a villain and an anti-hero, I suppose.
Quote
Like
Share

NickMoose
Member
Joined: August 10th, 2015, 2:03 am

July 12th, 2018, 11:36 pm #40

Jameselliot wrote: Clive is a pitiful Frankenstein in both films, weak, fearful, physically unhealthy looking, neurotic, prone to hysterics. The Cushing version would have looked at him with disdain. All I remember about the Sting Frankenstein is Jennifer Beals. The Baron is at his most reprehensible in Destroyed but still comes across as anti-hero, not villain, thanks to Cushing.
I like what you said there. I might KNOW he is a terrible person, but Cushing  makes you like his Frankenstein, no matter WHAT he does! He could kill my own mother and I'd still think, "Well, yeah but he was SUPER charismatic when he did it!" 
Quote
Like
Share