Forrest J Ackerman's #MeToo Moment ...

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DonM435
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Joined: April 8th, 2005, 11:16 am

May 15th, 2018, 4:18 pm #2081

Yeah, I’ve seen this from both sides. Parents have to step in and do unpopular things to impose some discipline on the kids’ lives. Uncles and aunts can get away with being cool, more so proportionate to their distance.
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Crow T Robot
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Joined: May 16th, 2007, 11:28 pm

May 15th, 2018, 5:30 pm #2082

Funny, but I always recall seeing James Warren in FM.  Not as much as Ackerman, but I remember seeing his photo here and there, (enough that I knew what he looked like the next time I'd see a photo of him), recall seeing publisher "editorials," seeing him at the FM cons in New York in the 70s, seeing him made up as a comical Frankenstein Monster on stage and in the pages of FM...so he wasn't just an unknown back during the days of the original FM.  Yeah, he wasn't publicized as much as Ackerman, but he wasn't just an unknown, either.

to me, Ackerman truly became the face of FM after he left the mag, and Warren went into seclusion.  

Even today, many people here talk as though Ackerman was everything in FM, even questioning about things sold in the back pages through Captain Company.  Funny thing is, many people remember and talk about the look of FM - the covers, the graphics, the monster fonts, the layouts, the full page photos, the Captain Company ads...none of which had anything to do with Ackerman.  Not many articles (if any) articles actually written by Ackerman are mentioned.  We remember the bad puns, but I can't recall anyone saying such and such articles were amazing.  And those we remember - often written by others.  

Just my humble opinion.  
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taraco
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taraco
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Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 5:37 am

May 15th, 2018, 5:51 pm #2083

Much of that has come to light after. For me, those early issues were Forry's, at least in how they were presented to young readers.

I didn't really connect with Jim Warren as a power until CREEPY and the other magazines emerged.
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amanaplan1
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Joined: February 9th, 2013, 2:18 am

May 15th, 2018, 5:56 pm #2084

Ackerman’s face seemed to appear in every issue.

(Anyone see the photo gallery extras on the Vinegar Syndrome DVD of ORGY OF THE DEAD?)
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HalLane
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Joined: October 16th, 2005, 5:18 am

May 15th, 2018, 6:01 pm #2085

Ackerman came across as the big kid, Warren as the business-like grown-up playboy. Sort of a good cop/bad cop situation.

Only now, we question which one was the good cop.
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R.C.Merchant
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Joined: December 20th, 2017, 4:42 pm

May 16th, 2018, 11:52 pm #2086

I'm sorry I went nuts the other day. 
I just feel like Forry stabbed me in the back. I LOVED FM when I was a kid. It just freaks me out to find out he was such a scumbag.
Plus I was little drunk...
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Monsterpal
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Joined: July 5th, 2006, 10:01 am

May 17th, 2018, 12:07 am #2087

R.C.Merchant wrote: I'm sorry I went nuts the other day. 
I just feel like Forry stabbed me in the back. I LOVED FM when I was a kid. It just freaks me out to find out he was such a scumbag.
I think we all feel that way, RC. I know I do.
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will
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Joined: November 17th, 2009, 2:23 am

May 17th, 2018, 2:26 am #2088

I don't feel that way. I hardly looked at his magazine. I see him as a flawed person, but there is a tendency with a lot of the people posting here to be all out or all in. I don't understand the worship, but also don't see him as a demon either.
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yokoflippi1
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Joined: May 4th, 2018, 3:57 pm

May 17th, 2018, 4:27 am #2089

Rakshasa wrote:
yokoflippi1 wrote:  Maybe it's because most of the adults in my young life were authority figures, and I learned at an early age that not all adults are nice and nurturing and friendly. Either they were yelling at me, slapping me, strapping me with a belt, telling me what to do "in no uncertain terms" or punishing me by taking away privileges or just because they'd had a bad day, and I was talking too loudly. Forry never did anything like that. He was completely and utterly unique, an older, portly gent who knew about horror films, loved silent sci-fi, and opened my eyes to a world of wonder. 
Yeahhhh, but "Forry" was a face in a magazine. He wasn't your parent or school teacher or other human being that was physically in your real life. 

You might as well be comparing Santa Claus to your parents here. "Santa Claus never made me eat my vegetables like my parents did. He was a good guy who delivered toys and lived in a castle at The North Pole... and he'll always be that to me."

What I'm saying is, a kid could choose anyone or anything to project idealism onto. 
What? Santa Claus? To me, Santa Claus was limited to the period from Thanksgiving to Christmas. And last I checked, he isn't real. I encountered Forry with every new issue of Famous Monsters and later, Monster World. Being made to eat my vegetables is a bit different than getting strapped with a belt as I'm running away in a panic, so yeah, Forry never did that. At least, not to me. 
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will
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Joined: November 17th, 2009, 2:23 am

May 17th, 2018, 4:32 am #2090

Forry was just in your magazine.
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Joined: June 7th, 2010, 2:37 pm

May 17th, 2018, 5:19 am #2091

R.C.Merchant wrote: I'm sorry I went nuts the other day. 
I just feel like Forry stabbed me in the back. I LOVED FM when I was a kid. It just freaks me out to find out he was such a scumbag.
Plus I was little drunk...
Don't feel bad.  When I realized I'd been idolizing a scumbag, I had a mini-meltdown amid anguished cries of "I'll never watch those dumb old monster movies again!"  Then I watched FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLF MAN and everything was fine again. 
"I should like to think that an irate Jehovah, was pointing those arrows of lightning directly at my head!"
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Xmas Ghost
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Joined: January 31st, 2012, 3:51 pm

May 17th, 2018, 9:24 am #2092

Allen Champion wrote:
R.C.Merchant wrote: I'm sorry I went nuts the other day. 
I just feel like Forry stabbed me in the back. I LOVED FM when I was a kid. It just freaks me out to find out he was such a scumbag.
Plus I was little drunk...
Don't feel bad.  When I realized I'd been idolizing a scumbag, I had a mini-meltdown amid anguished cries of "I'll never watch those dumb old monster movies again!"  Then I watched FRANKENSTEIN MEETS THE WOLF MAN and everything was fine again. 
I had to evaluate my monster obsession as well, but I'm over it. He's not persona non grata, but I'll never look at 4E or fandom the same way again.  A "flawed hero" to quote David. 
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kcor
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kcor
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Joined: August 22nd, 2017, 11:51 am

May 17th, 2018, 12:37 pm #2093

In a world in which some of the most interesting, even objectively good, motion pictures include THE BIRTH OF A NATION, GONE WITH THE WIND, THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and THE HOSPITAL I can't understand ever renouncing an affection or even exclusive interest in monster movies. Regardless of who made 'em.

Also, my personal experience with FMofF was that Ackerman was the most central and virtually the only personality I connected with it. I do recall seeing and reading it during the single digit days. This continued until I was doing other things, before issue 100 (altho I recall seeing the cover of that issue).

Warren I was aware of but mainly, my memory says, because Forry mentioned him--I learned more about him after I became an active fan, about 1970.
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R.C.Merchant
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Joined: December 20th, 2017, 4:42 pm

May 17th, 2018, 1:54 pm #2094

I still have some- in fact quite a few, FM's left. I sold most last year. But I kept the ones with the coolest covers. Basil Gogos art just pops. The writing inside was purile, but the big photos and those covers- man!
I liked Castle of Frankenstein much more. COF was aimed at adults. (Even though I was only 10 years old- I wasn't a drooling gum chewer....most of the time....)
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Monsterpal
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Joined: July 5th, 2006, 10:01 am

May 17th, 2018, 2:30 pm #2095

I first heard the rumors about Forry's unsavory predilections decades ago, so I've had plenty of time to get used to it. It's understandable that someone who idolized him could be quite upset to find this out at a late date.

But hey, we're all adults here, right? Well, not me, but the rest of you are adults, aren't you?
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will
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Joined: November 17th, 2009, 2:23 am

May 17th, 2018, 2:38 pm #2096

I thought we were monster kids.
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Jojo Lapin X
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Joined: January 30th, 2005, 4:59 am

May 17th, 2018, 6:57 pm #2097

kcor wrote: In a world in which some of the most interesting, even objectively good, motion pictures include THE BIRTH OF A NATION, GONE WITH THE WIND, THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and THE HOSPITAL I can't understand ever renouncing an affection or even exclusive interest in monster movies. Regardless of who made 'em.
What is problematic about THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and THE HOSPITAL?
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kcor
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kcor
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Joined: August 22nd, 2017, 11:51 am

May 17th, 2018, 7:45 pm #2098

Jojo Lapin X wrote:
kcor wrote: In a world in which some of the most interesting, even objectively good, motion pictures include THE BIRTH OF A NATION, GONE WITH THE WIND, THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and THE HOSPITAL [...] Regardless of who made 'em.
What is problematic about THE BAD AND THE BEAUTIFUL and THE HOSPITAL?
In those two cases more individual grotty elements rather than starting from a grotty premise. I can't say I couldn't have come up with better, more GONE WITH THE WINDie examples of more recent movies but frankly I was about to lose internet until, well, until just now.
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Monsterpal
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Joined: July 5th, 2006, 10:01 am

May 17th, 2018, 8:28 pm #2099

To quote Joe E. Brown: "Nobody's perfect."
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Wich2
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Joined: September 12th, 2007, 10:09 pm

May 17th, 2018, 9:42 pm #2100

It is correct that no poster has applauded Ackerman's nonsense here - and it is just as true that none have painted themselves as perfect. Being vocal and consistent about what is right is not self-righteousness. 

Ted posted some new pertinent info a few pages back. And Lucy's recent post is correct that there is still a very long way to go before the Ackerman Record hits a legitimate balance. (For one thing, as David has said, much fandom beyond this board doesn't even want to face the facts.)

Ackerman is a key icon of the genre, and this a Site of Record in it. As folks often say in other folders, those who don't want to read this thread don't have to. But for some posters to offer nothing more than dropping in to tell the others, you should be done now, yields no sense.
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