IFOR/SFOR Grizzly question

Joined: 3:05 PM - Sep 25, 2006

3:17 AM - Apr 04, 2013 #1

Hi,

I've recently finished building Trumpeter's early Grizzly AVGP. You can see the state of my build over here. I realize the kit isn't exactly accurate, and although I've attempted some enhancements, it all remains relatively superficial. The main effort was put on the scratchbuilt spare tire rack, for which I received the help of Anthony Sewards who kindly provided references pictures of the real thing. Apart from that, the build is pretty much OOB, with much of its flaws still showing.

My initial intention was to finish it as an IFOR/SFOR vehicle but I'm now wondering if I'm ready to cross the fictional line. I'm trying to figure out the extent of my being completely off with this build for an SFOR boat, even considering the kit inherent inaccuracies.

First, I gather that all IFOR/SFOR vehicles should sport the LAST armor package. This is by far the most serious point. I've seen it tackled very nicely by Pete Smith but I'm afraid won't go that route.

Looking around a bit, I stumble upon the following picture:



Does anyone know what this vehicle might be? It looks freshly OD-painted all over and does not seem to be equipped with LAST, yet it does sport the SFOR markings. (FYI, I found the above picture here). This might be the exception I was looking for.

I guess the followup question is what shade of green is this? I'm inclined to see some OD shade à la FS34098, but it could well be more of a greener FS34172...

Next are the rear mirrors arms. My version has the earlier single-post light-mounted model, but most Grizz I've seen sport the later double-braced model. Is it completely unimaginable to have a 98/99 Grizz equipped with the older rig?

Thank in advance for any and all help you may provide!

Best

Jean-Vincent
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 11:59 PM - Aug 03, 2006

4:21 AM - Apr 04, 2013 #2

Around 1997 the last armour was starting to be taken off ( due to the Dayton Peace Accord, less hostilities) and the Grizzlies were going through a scheduled rebuild. They received new turret electronics and new thermal sight. Around this time they were starting to be modified with new XML tires and Coyote mirror mounts, and updated 6V53T diesel engine. They were given a new CARC paint job (Tamiya Nato Green)which would become a standard military fleet colour . So from 97-2001ish the Grizz fleet in Bosnia would have been CARC green, with a few oddities still around with the three tone. The one you have shown belongs to the artillery .The last versions operated in country had add on armour tapping pads added.


Anthony
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 1:33 AM - Aug 25, 2004

11:13 AM - Apr 04, 2013 #3

Hi,

I've recently finished building Trumpeter's early Grizzly AVGP. You can see the state of my build over here. I realize the kit isn't exactly accurate, and although I've attempted some enhancements, it all remains relatively superficial. The main effort was put on the scratchbuilt spare tire rack, for which I received the help of Anthony Sewards who kindly provided references pictures of the real thing. Apart from that, the build is pretty much OOB, with much of its flaws still showing.

My initial intention was to finish it as an IFOR/SFOR vehicle but I'm now wondering if I'm ready to cross the fictional line. I'm trying to figure out the extent of my being completely off with this build for an SFOR boat, even considering the kit inherent inaccuracies.

First, I gather that all IFOR/SFOR vehicles should sport the LAST armor package. This is by far the most serious point. I've seen it tackled very nicely by Pete Smith but I'm afraid won't go that route.

Looking around a bit, I stumble upon the following picture:



Does anyone know what this vehicle might be? It looks freshly OD-painted all over and does not seem to be equipped with LAST, yet it does sport the SFOR markings. (FYI, I found the above picture here). This might be the exception I was looking for.

I guess the followup question is what shade of green is this? I'm inclined to see some OD shade à la FS34098, but it could well be more of a greener FS34172...

Next are the rear mirrors arms. My version has the earlier single-post light-mounted model, but most Grizz I've seen sport the later double-braced model. Is it completely unimaginable to have a 98/99 Grizz equipped with the older rig?

Thank in advance for any and all help you may provide!

Best

Jean-Vincent
JV, I've not seen an AVGP with all the upgrades Anthony mentions, and not have the newer mirrors. It is a fairly recognizable feature, and considering the time you've put into scratching a tire carrier, and the money invested into the resin set, I'd look into getting the right mirrors (I'd be happy to be proved wrong about needing the Bison mirrors though).

You have a couple options; scratch new mirrors and mounts; scavenge/scratch from the AFV Club Stryker accessory kit; or simply buy the "late" AVGP and move your wheels etc to that kit, and do your current one as a UNPROFOR AVGP.

A word on timelines - note that IFOR was essentially only around for 1996. If you are looking at 98/99, it would most definitely be SFOR.

The vehicle in photo has a FOO callsign. You can make the 50 & Gpig gun covers with styrene tube wrapped in thin strips of Tamiya tape.

GD
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 3:05 PM - Sep 25, 2006

11:20 AM - Apr 04, 2013 #4

Around 1997 the last armour was starting to be taken off ( due to the Dayton Peace Accord, less hostilities) and the Grizzlies were going through a scheduled rebuild. They received new turret electronics and new thermal sight. Around this time they were starting to be modified with new XML tires and Coyote mirror mounts, and updated 6V53T diesel engine. They were given a new CARC paint job (Tamiya Nato Green)which would become a standard military fleet colour . So from 97-2001ish the Grizz fleet in Bosnia would have been CARC green, with a few oddities still around with the three tone. The one you have shown belongs to the artillery .The last versions operated in country had add on armour tapping pads added.


Anthony
Thank you again for your help Anthony!

So it seems I'm set for this vehicle, even though mine won't have the Coyote mirrors but probably should, as I assume all these mods were carried out all together. Although not apparent in the picture, I also suppose the rear propellers should also be replaced with bins, right? So all in all, I'm basically doing a late version without the late features... oh well.

One more question, is there any specific markings I should be aware of to make it an arty vehicle? The pic shows SFOR markings, the canadian flag and what appears to be the vehicle callsign ("613" or "G13"). No specific unit markings nor bridge classification sign and tire pressure markings...

I'll try to find more pics of the vehicle.

Thanks again!

JV
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: 3:05 PM - Sep 25, 2006

11:29 AM - Apr 04, 2013 #5

JV, I've not seen an AVGP with all the upgrades Anthony mentions, and not have the newer mirrors. It is a fairly recognizable feature, and considering the time you've put into scratching a tire carrier, and the money invested into the resin set, I'd look into getting the right mirrors (I'd be happy to be proved wrong about needing the Bison mirrors though).

You have a couple options; scratch new mirrors and mounts; scavenge/scratch from the AFV Club Stryker accessory kit; or simply buy the "late" AVGP and move your wheels etc to that kit, and do your current one as a UNPROFOR AVGP.

A word on timelines - note that IFOR was essentially only around for 1996. If you are looking at 98/99, it would most definitely be SFOR.

The vehicle in photo has a FOO callsign. You can make the 50 & Gpig gun covers with styrene tube wrapped in thin strips of Tamiya tape.

GD
Thanks a bunch for your input Graeme.

Would you mind elaborating a bit on the FOO callsign? Is it "613"? how were these vehicles deployed and employed in the Bosnian context? I'm sorry for all these questions, I'm afraid I know nothing on the subject...

At any rate, it looks like I'll be going for this SFOR FOO vehicle. I should at the very least install the coyote mirror on my current build. I'll try to locate usable ones.

JV
Last edited by JVRoy on 11:31 AM - Apr 04, 2013, edited 1 time in total.
Quote
Like
Share

Ian Smith
Ian Smith

1:05 PM - Apr 04, 2013 #6

The Callsign is G13.
Quote
Share

Jason Bobrowich
Jason Bobrowich

1:53 PM - Apr 04, 2013 #7

Around 1997 the last armour was starting to be taken off ( due to the Dayton Peace Accord, less hostilities) and the Grizzlies were going through a scheduled rebuild. They received new turret electronics and new thermal sight. Around this time they were starting to be modified with new XML tires and Coyote mirror mounts, and updated 6V53T diesel engine. They were given a new CARC paint job (Tamiya Nato Green)which would become a standard military fleet colour . So from 97-2001ish the Grizz fleet in Bosnia would have been CARC green, with a few oddities still around with the three tone. The one you have shown belongs to the artillery .The last versions operated in country had add on armour tapping pads added.


Anthony
When was the Grizzly updated with a thermal sight and how would it ever fit in the One Metre Turret?

The turret upgrades started back in 1993/1994 and were completed with the upgraded M36E4 Image Intensification sight, electric traverse motor, modified feed system, and the C6 mount.
Quote
Share

Jason Bobrowich
Jason Bobrowich

2:55 PM - Apr 04, 2013 #8

Hi,

I've recently finished building Trumpeter's early Grizzly AVGP. You can see the state of my build over here. I realize the kit isn't exactly accurate, and although I've attempted some enhancements, it all remains relatively superficial. The main effort was put on the scratchbuilt spare tire rack, for which I received the help of Anthony Sewards who kindly provided references pictures of the real thing. Apart from that, the build is pretty much OOB, with much of its flaws still showing.

My initial intention was to finish it as an IFOR/SFOR vehicle but I'm now wondering if I'm ready to cross the fictional line. I'm trying to figure out the extent of my being completely off with this build for an SFOR boat, even considering the kit inherent inaccuracies.

First, I gather that all IFOR/SFOR vehicles should sport the LAST armor package. This is by far the most serious point. I've seen it tackled very nicely by Pete Smith but I'm afraid won't go that route.

Looking around a bit, I stumble upon the following picture:



Does anyone know what this vehicle might be? It looks freshly OD-painted all over and does not seem to be equipped with LAST, yet it does sport the SFOR markings. (FYI, I found the above picture here). This might be the exception I was looking for.

I guess the followup question is what shade of green is this? I'm inclined to see some OD shade à la FS34098, but it could well be more of a greener FS34172...

Next are the rear mirrors arms. My version has the earlier single-post light-mounted model, but most Grizz I've seen sport the later double-braced model. Is it completely unimaginable to have a 98/99 Grizz equipped with the older rig?

Thank in advance for any and all help you may provide!

Best

Jean-Vincent
I've seen your build blog on Track-Link. If for some reason you are stuck wth keeping the original small mirrors you may want to consider moving them to the correct location...attached to the turn signal guards and not the blackout markers as they are shown in the kit. You are better served to move to an SFOR Grizzly...during IFOR and the beginning of SFOR the original AVGP tires were used and only moving into the SFOR mission the XML tires were retro-fitted to the AVGPs.

The link below may also help you out with details. Note that all of the Grizzlys in the images have the marine drives removed and replaced with the storage bins. The Grizzlys with LAST during UNPROFOR, IFOR, and SFOR still retained the marine drive components. It appears that only the upgraded Grizzlys used by the Artillery during SFOR did not have LAST mounted but had all of the other modifications.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/169232/t ... un+Tractor
Quote
Share

Joined: 11:59 PM - Aug 03, 2006

4:11 PM - Apr 04, 2013 #9

When was the Grizzly updated with a thermal sight and how would it ever fit in the One Metre Turret?

The turret upgrades started back in 1993/1994 and were completed with the upgraded M36E4 Image Intensification sight, electric traverse motor, modified feed system, and the C6 mount.
SFOR Roto 1 ,I was with RECCE SQN with coyotes, but re rolled to Grizzlies to act as B-Coy stationed in Drvar. Our Grizz sights were updated with a thermal sight , they were used with great success during out rotation in the valley.Not sure if they remained in the turrets afterwards as from what I gather they might have been trials for a future up grade till LAV-3 arrived.

Anthony
Quote
Like
Share

Jason Bobrowich
Jason Bobrowich

5:04 PM - Apr 04, 2013 #10

I am amazed to hear that the CF actually was proactive with mounting a thermal sight in the Grizzly turret. I suspect you are correct about it being for trials. I wonder it it was an early version of the HIRE sight used in the Coyote/LAV III?

The USMC didn't upgrade their AAV sights to the M36E3 Thermal Sight System until 2007...interesting that Canada was a decade ahead of the U.S. with retro-fitting this technology.
Quote
Share