ADA??

ADA??

brent koller
brent koller

July 25th, 2003, 7:10 pm #1

What is the main air defence weapon that Canada uses??
Quote
Share

Tom Rea
Tom Rea

July 27th, 2003, 11:03 pm #2

Hi

We currently use the SLINGSHOT but our politicians are being silly again and feel that it may damage Cda/US relations should one of the rounds go astray and impact on US soil. That is the official story, however, the conspiracy theorists feel that the technology is far and away better than what the US currently has (read Avro ARROW) and the US is quietly and subtly applying pressure for us to kill the program (read mad cow, SARS, West Nile).

HTH.

Tom
treaATthotDOTnet
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 28th, 2003, 8:11 pm #3

What is the main air defence weapon that Canada uses??
Although some of the details listed are questionable, the following site does a good job of providing information about Canadian equipment in general:

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101.htm

Cheers,
JP

Quote
Like
Share

brent koller
brent koller

July 29th, 2003, 5:59 pm #4

Hi

We currently use the SLINGSHOT but our politicians are being silly again and feel that it may damage Cda/US relations should one of the rounds go astray and impact on US soil. That is the official story, however, the conspiracy theorists feel that the technology is far and away better than what the US currently has (read Avro ARROW) and the US is quietly and subtly applying pressure for us to kill the program (read mad cow, SARS, West Nile).

HTH.

Tom
treaATthotDOTnet
I was asking a serious question
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

July 29th, 2003, 10:07 pm #5

but a Canadian soldier's sense of humour is required to understand it, I guess.

Given the overall state of Canada's military, and a recent email joke that circulated which highlighted US 'concern' for the slingshot AA weapon, this posting of Tom's fit in.

Another site (in addition to the one I mentioned in my other posting) would be DND's own -
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/LF/English ... hEnabled=1

Cheers,
JP
Quote
Like
Share

Michael Dorosh
Michael Dorosh

July 31st, 2003, 1:59 pm #6

but a Canadian soldier's sense of humour is required to understand it, I guess.

Given the overall state of Canada's military, and a recent email joke that circulated which highlighted US 'concern' for the slingshot AA weapon, this posting of Tom's fit in.


It is a common misperception that serving soldiers sit around and lament about the state of their equipment in the Canadian Army. From what I've seen in 15 years with the CF this isn't necessarily the case. While we have some serious deficincies, we also have many items that are world class, and the situation is improving all the time. A soldier may laugh at his equipment sometimes, or even curse ("I have to drive the LS from Wainwright to Calgary???") but I'd pity anyone who did nothing but post on the internet about how awful his stuff was.

Canadian soldiers are known for three things over and above their professionalism, bravery and training; their sense of humour, their ability to relate to children, and - the main point here - the ability to make do with what they have (shut up and soldier on).

Frankly, in this one man's opinion, jokes about C1 Slingshots or Republican Guard green uniforms weren't all that terribly funny to begin with, but one has to view them with a certain inevitablity in certain quarters given the state of both our military and the overblown reportage we receive in the press. It is easier to understand them coming from unknowing civilians, less easier to hear them from someone professing a deeper understanding of, or currently serving in, the Canadian Forces.

On the whole, the majority of equipment I train with (admittedly, in a reserve unit) is either top of the line, or about to be replaced by such - including personal clothing, sleeping gear, winter gear, helmet, small arms, platoon weapons, radios, footwear, gloves, multi-tool. Even the new hayboxes are nice.

Given that the only major area that continues to plague and embarrass us are our vehicles (both the state of our softskins and the lack of IFVs), perhaps one can understand a certain...bitterness...among scale modellers of same?
Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 1st, 2003, 12:32 am #7

Mike,

Having a bad morning?? As British 'squaddies' would say, "What are you on about, mate?"

No offence meant, and I don't wish to toss naptha on a hot Coleman, but this whole reference to the slingshot AD weapon was meant tongue-in-cheek, as was your recent posting concerning CF uniform references. Frankly I don't see a difference in the sense of humour required by either, so why are you in the alert position over this one? Furthermore, at least this original question concerning Canada's AD weapons has been answered by the provision of two informative websites.

I have always taken great pride in my uniform and my nation, and even more pride in the adaptability of Canadian soldiers and our ability to overcome adversity with ingenuity. This indomitable spirit of Canadian soldiers has won more actions than has top-notch equipment. I have served at home and overseas with some excellent soldiers who, by virtue of their intelligence, were always thinking of ways to improve the equipment, tactics, or just how we did things in general. These soldiers first identified the problem (bitched), then solved it or worked around it.

>It is easier to understand them coming from unknowing civilians, less easier to hear them from someone professing a deeper understanding of, or currently serving in, the Canadian Forces.

Perhaps you are aware that Newfies themselves originated the best Newfie jokes? If one cannot poke fun at oneself, then one should not make fun of others. Additionally, the military will always be a target of the media in this country, so thick skin and humour are the best defence.

As for 'bitterness' about our vehicles, I disagree, but I do concur with your statement about our softskins, as there is room for improvement. But having had the opportunity to operate in the equivalent vehicles of some of our allies, I'd have to say that we are in very decent shape. I would also put forth that although your unit (or mine, for that matter) do not have them, the CF has or is procuring some of the finest vehicles in their class - namely the Bison (and variants), the Coyote and the LAV III, and our small arms are second to none.

Cheers,
JP
Quote
Like
Share

Michael Dorosh
Michael Dorosh

August 1st, 2003, 2:19 am #8

Heh, today was worse than yesterday, actually, but it hasn't been a good week all around.

I agree that with LAV III and Coyote we have world class armoured vehicles - and MLVW may be old, but I still love to drive them; they're tough and go a lot of places. And I actually look forward to driving the new Silverados - pray God, maybe this fall.

I may have over-reacted, BUT, I do think that while bitching in the mess is a perfectly natural pastime (I do it myself) that one needs to exercise a bit of caution on the net. Ask me about driving home in an Iltis, in winter, on icy roads, for 5 hours, on broken f-ing tie rods. I was literally in fear for my life most of the ride home. Then ask me about the yellow MWO who jumped ship an hour into the trip to ride in the "good" Iltis while sticking me with a MCpl whose idea was to drive as fast as possible to lessen the chance of us having an accident. But I digress!

Bitching like that is one thing, I guess I get a bit concerned that "outsiders" reading boards like these will form a perception of CF personnel as self-pitying and whining when we all know they are anything but.

I am guessing most of the people that surf here have paid their dues in the CF so no harm there, but one wonders about the silent lurkers who "don't get it".

Perhaps I worry too much. Then again, I didn't find the picture of the gopher with the bazooka very funny either. Or the F-18 with the man carrying a .45 in his hand strapped to the wing. Both were cited as "Canadian Forces" pics in the various "joke" emails that passed them along in recent months.

It's easy to take potshots at the CF, but it seems that I have read a lot of them lately, and many from serving members; it does tend to wear one down. No reason for me to take it out on anyone here; I hadn't intended my comments to sound harsh, and no offence intended; naturally it struck me that the Forum Owner himself was posting in the thread. If nothing else, I appreciate the polite reply and certainly don't presume to tell you or anyone else how to post. But I can't blame buddy for being a bit surpised at not having his serious question answered, since this IS after all a forum to which his question directly related and is inhabited by a host of knowledgeable, generous and articulate people.


Quote
Share

Joined: January 1st, 1970, 12:00 am

August 1st, 2003, 2:57 am #9

Mike,

Must admit that upon first reading, I had taken some offence to your previous post, but thankfully I took the time to read it again to realize your position better before I had replied. I'm glad that points have been clarified.

Additionally, I agree with your statement:

"I guess I get a bit concerned that "outsiders" reading boards like these will form a perception of CF personnel as self-pitying and whining when we all know they are anything but. I am guessing most of the people that surf here have paid their dues in the CF so no harm there, but one wonders about the silent lurkers who "don't get it". "

You're right - it is easy to forget that not all have shared the same experiences and may not completely comprehend the humour. I do chuckle over the various 'secret weapon' joke emails and see no harm in them, but yes it is easy to lose sight of the fact that some may not understand the humour of them.

Getting back to vehicles, when are you scheduled to start receiving the Silverado? Getting any GucciWagons too?

And BTW, hopefully next week is better for you.

Cheers,
JP
Quote
Like
Share

C Sherman
C Sherman

August 1st, 2003, 7:12 pm #10

Although some of the details listed are questionable, the following site does a good job of providing information about Canadian equipment in general:

http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101.htm

Cheers,
JP
I am somewhat new to this forum, and I have not posted previously, but I think I can contribute something here. Hopefully, the fact that I am an American with 23 years in out Army Reserves will not upset anyone!

First, the sort of humor that I have seen here is typical of Canadian soldiers, in my experience. I have had the privelege to serve with Canadians on several different occasions, and the ability to crack a very fitting, to-the-point joke at the right time is one of the very best things I recall. Why change the leopard's spots just because someone might peek?

Second, this sort of wit is the hallmark of professional and dedicated soldiers. I have seen it in my own Army on a daily basis, for my entire career. I have even contributed (weakly, I must confess) to the jokes. It is one way we exchange professional knowledge and information. The jokes are part and parcel of your (our, I hope!) professionalism, and nothing to be ashamed of.

Professionals in our business know that the best equipment makes our jobs easier, whether we are talking about rifles, tanks, or fighter jets. Anything shortcoming or deficiency in the equipment we are given is noted and commented upon. In professional armies the criticism is usually humorous, if cutting, perhaps because we recognize the compromises that are inherent in the process of aquiring equipment. I have heard soldiers from a number of nations making similar jokes about their own equipment.

As to whether outsiders understand...who cares? Most will understand, as their interest here has probably exposed them to the military before. I understand the sensitivity (God knows we..the US...have an image problem once in a while!), but my view is that it isn't worth worrying about. The original response answered the question, so why criticise the way it was presented?

I have no intent to offend anyone, or to start a flame war, I just thought a sympathetic outside view might be of interest.

Cheers,
Chuck
Quote
Share