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TE1A boiler rivet question

Nevadablue
Steam fanatic
Joined: 2:58 AM - Oct 15, 2013

1:08 AM - Nov 24, 2013 #1

Is there any reason that I couldn't replace those sealed rivets with brass bushings inset into the boiler so I can disassemble the machine? I'm considering an overhaul some day to repair the rusty firebox and I hate the rivets. I would like to use bolts for the firebox and the firebox to boiler connection.

How were the older machines made? The ones with the bolts sticking out of the canopy bracket.
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xlchainsaw
Steam Supreme Being
Joined: 7:39 AM - Oct 30, 2007

11:29 AM - Nov 24, 2013 #2

the old nut and bolt engines are a real curse ย :cry: when they were new im sure the bolt and with its new seals were great ...but that was fifty years ago ย :cry: as far as i know the bolts were put in before the boiler was soldered up ..i just drilled them out and put copper self sealing rivets in .....brandnew bushes and seals would work a treat but its a lot of work when just a "pop" rivet will do ย :D
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Crouch
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Crouch
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Joined: 12:22 PM - May 17, 2013

11:54 AM - Nov 24, 2013 #3

Nevadablue:998387 wrote:Is there any reason that I couldn't replace those sealed rivets with brass bushings inset into the boiler so I can disassemble the machine? I'm considering an overhaul some day to repair the rusty firebox and I hate the rivets. I would like to use bolts for the firebox and the firebox to boiler connection.

How were the older machines made? The ones with the bolts sticking out of the canopy bracket.
Yes but why go to that trouble the bush would have to be blind at one end. A little like a small level plug insert that is not drilled all the way through.

I solder a brass screw onto a length of solder and then insert it through the whistle insert. It easily finds the holes in the boiler closing plate. Put one nut on up to the boiler closing plate and lock two on the end of the screw. Hold the locked nuts and tighten the nut against the boiler; remove locked nuts. Apply a splash of solder to fully seal and melt solder off screw head inside boiler. Cut studs to length. I use 1/8 BSW screws and nuts to secure the fire box.

The fire box I assemble using 4 6BA dome head screws and nuts and the engine frame I secure with 2 5BA cheese head screws and nuts. You need to make a bent spanner to reach the 5BA nuts. Tap the smoke box 6BA and secure with 4 6BA done head screws and external star washers and bingo one fully serviceable TE1a. :D

Edit: This is a repair rather than a conversion:



The stud on the left was inserted through the whistle insert as described above and the 5 BA screws are still in the engine frame for testing without wasting rivets.
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WeedenSteam
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 1:29 AM - Mar 01, 2009

3:19 PM - Nov 24, 2013 #4

Do what works best for you, I personally think rivets are for toys and eliminate them when possible.
I wish I had done that on some of my earlier attempts at modding instead of being in a hurry to get 'r' done.
Frank C.
http://weedensteam.com
"A candle lighting another loses nothing."
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Nevadablue
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Joined: 2:58 AM - Oct 15, 2013

3:58 PM - Nov 24, 2013 #5

Crouch, I like that idea. Thanks! Yes, I want to eliminate the rivets and had planned blind bushes, but the bolt from the inside looks like a good, safe solution to me.
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Cbwho
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Cbwho
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Joined: 8:53 PM - Feb 09, 2018

11:12 PM - May 15, 2018 #6

Crouch wrote:
Nevadablue:998387 wrote:Is there any reason that I couldn't replace those sealed rivets with brass bushings inset into the boiler so I can disassemble the machine? I'm considering an overhaul some day to repair the rusty firebox and I hate the rivets. I would like to use bolts for the firebox and the firebox to boiler connection.

How were the older machines made? The ones with the bolts sticking out of the canopy bracket.
Yes but why go to that trouble the bush would have to be blind at one end. A little like a small level plug insert that is not drilled all the way through.

I solder a brass screw onto a length of solder and then insert it through the whistle insert. It easily finds the holes in the boiler closing plate. Put one nut on up to the boiler closing plate and lock two on the end of the screw. Hold the locked nuts and tighten the nut against the boiler; remove locked nuts. Apply a splash of solder to fully seal and melt solder off screw head inside boiler. Cut studs to length. I use 1/8 BSW screws and nuts to secure the fire box.

The fire box I assemble using 4 6BA dome head screws and nuts and the engine frame I secure with 2 5BA cheese head screws and nuts. You need to make a bent spanner to reach the 5BA nuts. Tap the smoke box 6BA and secure with 4 6BA done head screws and external star washers and bingo one fully serviceable TE1a. :D

Edit: This is a repair rather than a conversion:



The stud on the left was inserted through the whistle insert as described above and the 5 BA screws are still in the engine frame for testing without wasting rivets.
I did the above with a slight difference, I used SAE 4-40 bolts and used 2 strands of multistrand copper wire as a snake to pull the bolt thru. After using solder, I ran a 4-40 die to clean the threads. The one drawback to having nuts soldered on the outside is that now the boiler doesn't seat flush inside the firebox. This poses trouble for the stock overflow plug. Withdsight it'll be better to forgo the outside nuts as one doesn't need them. Just use more solder. The die chase will clean the threads.

So now with the extra intervening nuts, one has to drill the seat holes larger (for the nuts) and then use cupped washers of some sort.
Thanks
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Crouch
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Crouch
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Joined: 12:22 PM - May 17, 2013

4:37 PM - May 16, 2018 #7

Thatโ€™s interesting Cbwho I never had any problems with this repair nor did I have any problems with LP or whistle positioning.
I have an engine with a drawn in LP tapped hole with nut n bolt fire box retaining studs that was created in the factory. The nuts have to be thin nuts.
In view of the issues reported by Cbwho I suggest mocking this up by first fitting the screw and nut to the fire box and check everything aligns.
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Ben
Hero Steamer
Joined: 12:23 PM - Mar 22, 2010

4:43 PM - May 16, 2018 #8

I'd love to mod a TE1A to be completely disassemble-able for cleaning/service.

Oh, and to start retrofitting exhaust choke levers to newer TE's.

Now I just need to become smart and good at soldering! ๐Ÿ˜Ž

Wait, where to start with becoming smart? ๐Ÿค”


๐Ÿ˜‰๐Ÿ˜…
All the best,

{ Ben }



โ™  R.I.P Lemmy, Phil & Eddie โ™ 
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Cbwho
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Cbwho
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Joined: 8:53 PM - Feb 09, 2018

7:59 PM - May 16, 2018 #9

The extra soldered in nuts make a gap. The soldered in bolts will do by themselves, no need for extra intervening nuts. 20180516_145802.jpg 20180516_145740.jpg
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Cbwho
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Cbwho
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Joined: 8:53 PM - Feb 09, 2018

8:07 PM - May 16, 2018 #10

I do appreciate the original advice as it was the only advice I could find via Google. But to change it from an A to A+, forget the extra nuts and just solder them in with a hanging jig and chase with a thread die. 2018-05-16 15.04.06.jpg
Thanks
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