Tony Greenland finishing technique question...

Hosted by Dave Parker from AFV Modeller magazine and Adam Wilder, this discussion group is geared towards modelling technique questions ranging from construction to final weathering. This forum was created so that "newbies" can post without being intimidated by the sometimes highly technical nature of the other discussion groups.

Tony Greenland finishing technique question...

Joined: December 31st, 2006, 7:06 pm

February 1st, 2010, 1:04 am #1

Gents,
I'm just starting to get serious about doing some armor modeling (I've completed the Trumpeter "Guideline" missile and launcher and an old Italeri kit of some US Cannon on tracks, with a dozer blade in the back, forget the name) and now I'm in the final stages of an Italeri LAV-25.

I bought the Tony Greenland book, but stupidly loaned it out and have never seen it since. But I remember his first weathering step was to use Humbrol Dark Earth (which I bought) and do a thorough spraying of the bottom of the vehicle,suspension, road wheels etc....basically seemed to just turn the whole thing "dirt" on the bottom and graduate the finish up toward the sides.

But I don't think I've seen anyone on CC or elsewhere here use that technique. Is it outmoded? What would I do to begin the weathering on the bottom parts of my LAV? It's finished in 3-tone sand,brown,and black, per the Italeri instruction sheet. The bottom half of the vehicle is basically sand colored, it definitely needs to be dirtied up, but how to begin?

If using the Humbrol Dark Earth is still a valid idea, can someone PLEASE tell me in, for lack of a better term "U.S. English" how to thin the stuff? I haven't found anything yet that really smooths out Humbrol to the point where I feel comfortable airbrushing it. Maybe because I'm in California, and lots of good thinners are being outlawed.

I've gone to every hardware store and asked for thinners I've seen reccomended such as "cellulose", "methylated spirits" or "white spirit" and I just get a thousand yard stare from whoever I ask. Maybe there are identical products here in the US with different names?

Thanks for any tips

Michael Lee Smith
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: May 13th, 2005, 2:24 pm

February 1st, 2010, 1:30 am #2

it can be found at better art supply stores.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 31st, 2006, 7:06 pm

February 1st, 2010, 2:22 am #3

have tried it, but the Humbrol seemed to sort of get "flaky" and separate a bit...my tins are probably 5 years old, but almost all are unopened, I've heard Humbrol is still good years later, but maybe mine has just gone past it's sell-by date?

Michael Lee Smith
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: September 20th, 2003, 3:28 pm

February 1st, 2010, 7:18 pm #4

about the only thing that works well with Humbrol paints is Humbrol thinner. I was using some of my old tins of Humbrol (years ago now) and having awful results until a good model buddy said that I needed to get their thinner-totally solved the problem. I find that the MIG thinner actually works quite well with Humbrol too.

As an aside about Turponoid the thinner in the blue can work well with most enamels and oils-the Turponoid in the green/no smell/environmentally safe blah blah blah is s**t and doesn't work with anything as far as I can tell-it also leaves a very visible glossy dry edge-used mine twice and threw it away.

Regards bobC
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: July 29th, 2006, 11:00 am

February 1st, 2010, 9:14 pm #5

Gents,
I'm just starting to get serious about doing some armor modeling (I've completed the Trumpeter "Guideline" missile and launcher and an old Italeri kit of some US Cannon on tracks, with a dozer blade in the back, forget the name) and now I'm in the final stages of an Italeri LAV-25.

I bought the Tony Greenland book, but stupidly loaned it out and have never seen it since. But I remember his first weathering step was to use Humbrol Dark Earth (which I bought) and do a thorough spraying of the bottom of the vehicle,suspension, road wheels etc....basically seemed to just turn the whole thing "dirt" on the bottom and graduate the finish up toward the sides.

But I don't think I've seen anyone on CC or elsewhere here use that technique. Is it outmoded? What would I do to begin the weathering on the bottom parts of my LAV? It's finished in 3-tone sand,brown,and black, per the Italeri instruction sheet. The bottom half of the vehicle is basically sand colored, it definitely needs to be dirtied up, but how to begin?

If using the Humbrol Dark Earth is still a valid idea, can someone PLEASE tell me in, for lack of a better term "U.S. English" how to thin the stuff? I haven't found anything yet that really smooths out Humbrol to the point where I feel comfortable airbrushing it. Maybe because I'm in California, and lots of good thinners are being outlawed.

I've gone to every hardware store and asked for thinners I've seen reccomended such as "cellulose", "methylated spirits" or "white spirit" and I just get a thousand yard stare from whoever I ask. Maybe there are identical products here in the US with different names?

Thanks for any tips

Michael Lee Smith
Michael,

Without a doubt there have been a variety of different qualities of Humbrol Enamels over the past few years, during the saga of Hornby buying them out. I actually received an acknowledgement from the company some time ago when I wrote and complained. They said that changes had been made to the paint that should improve the matter. The one in question was the early super enamel, which was rubbish. The sad thing is that all their paints are now manufactured in the PRC, not in the UK or Europe.

I would suggest their own brand thinners as it is the best, I use it for washes too, as it is quite gentle in its effects on paints. Bear the cost and stick with the brand as it is in thius case excellent value when used with their own paint products.

One thing to mention, you could use acrylics for the same effect. Many of us now use very thin Tamiya Buff or Deck Tan for dust effects, the dark earth works just as well.

John
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 31st, 2006, 7:06 pm

February 1st, 2010, 9:19 pm #6

if they carry Humbrol thinner. There's no one locally that carries Humbrol that I know of, I bought my paints at a show from a dealer who only sells at shows. He didn't have any thinner, and who knows how old his stock was?


Michael Lee Smith
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 31st, 2006, 7:06 pm

February 1st, 2010, 9:21 pm #7

about the only thing that works well with Humbrol paints is Humbrol thinner. I was using some of my old tins of Humbrol (years ago now) and having awful results until a good model buddy said that I needed to get their thinner-totally solved the problem. I find that the MIG thinner actually works quite well with Humbrol too.

As an aside about Turponoid the thinner in the blue can work well with most enamels and oils-the Turponoid in the green/no smell/environmentally safe blah blah blah is s**t and doesn't work with anything as far as I can tell-it also leaves a very visible glossy dry edge-used mine twice and threw it away.

Regards bobC
I used to use it all the time for doing detail washes with oils, but now that's been supplanted by Ronsonol lighter fluid, which has super viscosity and evaporates really fast. That's why I still have a gallon of Turpenoid on hand.

Come to think of it, I haven't tried Ronsonol to thin Humbrol, might be time to do an experiment tonight!

Michael Lee Smith
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 2nd, 2005, 9:24 pm

February 3rd, 2010, 12:16 am #8

Gents,
I'm just starting to get serious about doing some armor modeling (I've completed the Trumpeter "Guideline" missile and launcher and an old Italeri kit of some US Cannon on tracks, with a dozer blade in the back, forget the name) and now I'm in the final stages of an Italeri LAV-25.

I bought the Tony Greenland book, but stupidly loaned it out and have never seen it since. But I remember his first weathering step was to use Humbrol Dark Earth (which I bought) and do a thorough spraying of the bottom of the vehicle,suspension, road wheels etc....basically seemed to just turn the whole thing "dirt" on the bottom and graduate the finish up toward the sides.

But I don't think I've seen anyone on CC or elsewhere here use that technique. Is it outmoded? What would I do to begin the weathering on the bottom parts of my LAV? It's finished in 3-tone sand,brown,and black, per the Italeri instruction sheet. The bottom half of the vehicle is basically sand colored, it definitely needs to be dirtied up, but how to begin?

If using the Humbrol Dark Earth is still a valid idea, can someone PLEASE tell me in, for lack of a better term "U.S. English" how to thin the stuff? I haven't found anything yet that really smooths out Humbrol to the point where I feel comfortable airbrushing it. Maybe because I'm in California, and lots of good thinners are being outlawed.

I've gone to every hardware store and asked for thinners I've seen reccomended such as "cellulose", "methylated spirits" or "white spirit" and I just get a thousand yard stare from whoever I ask. Maybe there are identical products here in the US with different names?

Thanks for any tips

Michael Lee Smith
and never have had a problem. Sprays great and dries fast and hard. I hope this is of some use to you.One last thing it needs to pretty thin.I just do it by eyeballing the consistency.Also Mona Lisa orderless paint thinner is a great product.Available at Michaels.Very good for washes as it is not a hot thinner.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: August 30th, 2006, 11:44 pm

February 3rd, 2010, 3:12 am #9

Gents,
I'm just starting to get serious about doing some armor modeling (I've completed the Trumpeter "Guideline" missile and launcher and an old Italeri kit of some US Cannon on tracks, with a dozer blade in the back, forget the name) and now I'm in the final stages of an Italeri LAV-25.

I bought the Tony Greenland book, but stupidly loaned it out and have never seen it since. But I remember his first weathering step was to use Humbrol Dark Earth (which I bought) and do a thorough spraying of the bottom of the vehicle,suspension, road wheels etc....basically seemed to just turn the whole thing "dirt" on the bottom and graduate the finish up toward the sides.

But I don't think I've seen anyone on CC or elsewhere here use that technique. Is it outmoded? What would I do to begin the weathering on the bottom parts of my LAV? It's finished in 3-tone sand,brown,and black, per the Italeri instruction sheet. The bottom half of the vehicle is basically sand colored, it definitely needs to be dirtied up, but how to begin?

If using the Humbrol Dark Earth is still a valid idea, can someone PLEASE tell me in, for lack of a better term "U.S. English" how to thin the stuff? I haven't found anything yet that really smooths out Humbrol to the point where I feel comfortable airbrushing it. Maybe because I'm in California, and lots of good thinners are being outlawed.

I've gone to every hardware store and asked for thinners I've seen reccomended such as "cellulose", "methylated spirits" or "white spirit" and I just get a thousand yard stare from whoever I ask. Maybe there are identical products here in the US with different names?

Thanks for any tips

Michael Lee Smith
Not sure anyone has answered one of your primary questions; so here are my thoughts.

Overall, I think the general approach found in Tony Greenland's book is a general approach. It might have worked at the time, but I think the trends are more leaning towards the environmental. The lower hull color should match the conditions that you find the vehicle. If the ground is damp or wet, and the soil is European then the Tony Greenland color is probably fine for a base lower earth tone. However, that would look really off for a vehicle in a dry sandy situation (which would then have a light tan look), or more so in an environment with more clay in the soils; earth tones for Vietnam or even my Northern Virginia have a reddish color from the clay.

Generally, the previous advice of using Buff or Deck Tan work very well for a dusty look. I've also applied Vallejo Pale Sand and Beige for a dusty/dirty look as well. The other recommendation I would add is the application of pigments (with an appropriate fixer) for adding further dusting. Feel free to mix pigments to vary the tones (or add in multiple levels).

Figure where you are going to be situating the vehicle and consider the earth tones and weather. Then, add the corresponding earth tones.
Quote
Like
Share

Joined: December 31st, 2006, 7:06 pm

February 4th, 2010, 7:04 am #10

and never have had a problem. Sprays great and dries fast and hard. I hope this is of some use to you.One last thing it needs to pretty thin.I just do it by eyeballing the consistency.Also Mona Lisa orderless paint thinner is a great product.Available at Michaels.Very good for washes as it is not a hot thinner.
Thanks!

Michael Lee Smith
Quote
Like
Share