Tiger II 008 Befehlspanzer or not

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Tiger II 008 Befehlspanzer or not

Joined: May 29th, 2013, 4:10 pm

June 9th, 2017, 11:09 pm #1

I was looking for a interesting subject to model as a Tiger II Befehlspanzer.
So far i have four candidates that there are known photos of but a fifth possible one is 008 of the Pz Abt 501 in the Ardennes.
I have read through threads on this site and others that claim 008 was a command vehicle with a star antenna on the rear. I'v looked at the footage of this company travelling through a Belgium town and there is just a flash of an antenna on the rear but when you look at the other photos of the Tank things you would expect to see on a command vehicle are missing such as the mountings on the RHR hull for the large mast antenna, the pot for the engine deck antenna and the antenna base on the roof.
Anybody have any further info on why 008 is suppossed to be a command vehicle?

Maybe a star antenna shown here but you cant see it in the next frame. Might just be something in the background as well.




No sign of all the usual bits you would expect to see in this photo such as the rear engine antenna pot, the roof antenna mount and the RHR hull side mast mountings.



This is a really blurred photo but again i can't see any sign of fittings that you would expect to see. There is a chance that the rear mounted antenna tube is there but i can't really be sure.
Any thoughts or better photos?

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Joined: August 16th, 2011, 10:25 am

June 10th, 2017, 5:45 am #2

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/tgrifo7t1/" rel="nofollow">

Regards

Viktor</a>
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Joined: May 29th, 2013, 4:10 pm

June 10th, 2017, 3:04 pm #3

Thats just the photo i was looking for Viktor. I had a very dark copy of it and couldn't make out the detail.
Ok the antenna storage tube is there but now the question remains where are the rest of the antenna mountings. We should be able to see the pot on the rear deck and the brackets for the mast on the rear hull side.
It is just possible it wasn't a true Befehlswagen and had just borrowed the antenna tube from something else.

Look how obvious the fittings are on the Kubinka vehicle and compare that to what we see on 008.

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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

June 10th, 2017, 5:12 pm #4

I still think it is NOT a command tank for the obvious reasons. You would definitely see the hull fittings
DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: April 27th, 2006, 2:21 pm

June 11th, 2017, 11:38 am #5

I was looking for a interesting subject to model as a Tiger II Befehlspanzer.
So far i have four candidates that there are known photos of but a fifth possible one is 008 of the Pz Abt 501 in the Ardennes.
I have read through threads on this site and others that claim 008 was a command vehicle with a star antenna on the rear. I'v looked at the footage of this company travelling through a Belgium town and there is just a flash of an antenna on the rear but when you look at the other photos of the Tank things you would expect to see on a command vehicle are missing such as the mountings on the RHR hull for the large mast antenna, the pot for the engine deck antenna and the antenna base on the roof.
Anybody have any further info on why 008 is suppossed to be a command vehicle?

Maybe a star antenna shown here but you cant see it in the next frame. Might just be something in the background as well.




No sign of all the usual bits you would expect to see in this photo such as the rear engine antenna pot, the roof antenna mount and the RHR hull side mast mountings.



This is a really blurred photo but again i can't see any sign of fittings that you would expect to see. There is a chance that the rear mounted antenna tube is there but i can't really be sure.
Any thoughts or better photos?
Guys,

Good quality photos of the 008 can be found on page 88 and 89 in Duel In The Mist No.3 book. Unfortunately I can´t say for certain there is a antenna foot Nr. 1 on the roof but it sure looks like it. It does have the armoured pot on the engine deck but not the bracket for the antenna extension rods. So except for the mentioned bracket all points to a command vehicle.

/Per
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Joined: August 16th, 2011, 10:25 am

June 11th, 2017, 1:14 pm #6

Thats just the photo i was looking for Viktor. I had a very dark copy of it and couldn't make out the detail.
Ok the antenna storage tube is there but now the question remains where are the rest of the antenna mountings. We should be able to see the pot on the rear deck and the brackets for the mast on the rear hull side.
It is just possible it wasn't a true Befehlswagen and had just borrowed the antenna tube from something else.

Look how obvious the fittings are on the Kubinka vehicle and compare that to what we see on 008.

Dave, this is most probably second command tak which was completed by Henschel. Are you sure that all sd.kfz 267 has this bracket?
I can't remember many Bef.Tigers B photos, but for example photo from AFV album (for discuss)

<a href="http://postimg.org/image/s0264ovyr/" rel="nofollow">

Regards

Viktor</a>
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Joined: May 29th, 2013, 4:10 pm

June 11th, 2017, 3:04 pm #7

I'm working from the assumption that Tiger IIs were out fitted with the same mountings as the Tiger I. But now that is thrown into doubt since your photo shows no side mountings on what is obviously a Befehlswagen. Add to that the lack of a mounting on Tiger II 008 and it becomes clear that all command Tiger IIs didn't have this feature. The only one that we can see it on is the captured Kublinka Tiger II No 502 a photo of which i posted above.
So far i can only find photos of 5 vehicles that were Befehlswagens. See my link below for photos of the 4 i had before 008 was identified in this thread.
Tiger II turret number 555 of the Pz Abt 502 may be the exception in this list as there is very little evidence to support the claim apart from the one photo and some colour plates which may be weak evidence to support the claim.

http://www.track-link.com/forums/site_blogs/31797

Dave.
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Joined: April 27th, 2006, 2:21 pm

June 11th, 2017, 3:05 pm #8

I was looking for a interesting subject to model as a Tiger II Befehlspanzer.
So far i have four candidates that there are known photos of but a fifth possible one is 008 of the Pz Abt 501 in the Ardennes.
I have read through threads on this site and others that claim 008 was a command vehicle with a star antenna on the rear. I'v looked at the footage of this company travelling through a Belgium town and there is just a flash of an antenna on the rear but when you look at the other photos of the Tank things you would expect to see on a command vehicle are missing such as the mountings on the RHR hull for the large mast antenna, the pot for the engine deck antenna and the antenna base on the roof.
Anybody have any further info on why 008 is suppossed to be a command vehicle?

Maybe a star antenna shown here but you cant see it in the next frame. Might just be something in the background as well.




No sign of all the usual bits you would expect to see in this photo such as the rear engine antenna pot, the roof antenna mount and the RHR hull side mast mountings.



This is a really blurred photo but again i can't see any sign of fittings that you would expect to see. There is a chance that the rear mounted antenna tube is there but i can't really be sure.
Any thoughts or better photos?
...that the bracket for the extension rods was deleted during autumn 1944. Early command versions with the three rods 1,25 m (stowed inside behind the driver) had this bracket, see Kubinka vehicle. Later version with the six "Verlängerungstab" 0,7 m and the "Stützkorb für Antennenfuss" (see Panzer tracts No.5-3) didn´t need this bracket as these extension rods were mounted directly on the antenna with the support of the "Stützkorb". One can safely say that 008 is a command version.

/Per
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Joined: May 29th, 2013, 4:10 pm

June 11th, 2017, 3:41 pm #9

I don't have Panzer tracts so thanks for that information. All of the pieces are falling into place now.

Dave.
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Joined: October 18th, 2004, 6:49 pm

June 15th, 2017, 9:36 pm #10

Thats just the photo i was looking for Viktor. I had a very dark copy of it and couldn't make out the detail.
Ok the antenna storage tube is there but now the question remains where are the rest of the antenna mountings. We should be able to see the pot on the rear deck and the brackets for the mast on the rear hull side.
It is just possible it wasn't a true Befehlswagen and had just borrowed the antenna tube from something else.

Look how obvious the fittings are on the Kubinka vehicle and compare that to what we see on 008.

David,

I think the armored pot is visible in Viktor's photo, don't you?

Regards,

Tom
Tom Cockle
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