Thunder Models - Crossed the line?

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The Axis WWII discussion group is hosted by Tom Cockle and is dedicated to Axis armour of the Second World War.

Thunder Models - Crossed the line?

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 5:49 pm

September 18th, 2017, 6:20 pm #1

While I am continually amazed by the wealth of new kits and, for the most part, the detail and accuracy of those kits, I am still saddened and dismayed that in the zeal to get new products out, manufacturers can be so "blase" over what they are producing.

Take the new kit announced by Thunder models.
German Gedeckter Guterwagen G10.
Even in the promotion text Thunder does state "they were also used to transport "enemies of the nation" to concentration camps."

My question is:
Do we need to have a model of the boxcar that became a symbol of the Final Solution?

Maybe the Chinese company doesn't have the cultural reference to know how close to crossing the line this kit is. Even Dragon, who has shown it is quite willing to put out figures for even some of the most controversial military groups and/or situations has understood that a set of Einsatzgruppen figures would be "beyond the pale."

I don't think this model was proposed deliberately, but it does shows a marked lack of cultural competence. You notice there is a real lack of any Imperial Japanese subjects from Chinese manufacturers. So they understand it isn't all about history.

Maybe an email along these lines could "raise Thunder's consciousness."
Just my two cents worth.
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Joined: August 9th, 2006, 12:19 am

September 18th, 2017, 6:41 pm #2

That they have modeled a box car used to perpetrate genocide, that they identify the historical reality of that, or that they call "nazi victims" "Enemies of the nation"
I do not think the model is crossing any line. I think the description of the victims could be better worded.

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Joined: May 18th, 2013, 11:02 pm

September 18th, 2017, 10:40 pm #3

While I am continually amazed by the wealth of new kits and, for the most part, the detail and accuracy of those kits, I am still saddened and dismayed that in the zeal to get new products out, manufacturers can be so "blase" over what they are producing.

Take the new kit announced by Thunder models.
German Gedeckter Guterwagen G10.
Even in the promotion text Thunder does state "they were also used to transport "enemies of the nation" to concentration camps."

My question is:
Do we need to have a model of the boxcar that became a symbol of the Final Solution?

Maybe the Chinese company doesn't have the cultural reference to know how close to crossing the line this kit is. Even Dragon, who has shown it is quite willing to put out figures for even some of the most controversial military groups and/or situations has understood that a set of Einsatzgruppen figures would be "beyond the pale."

I don't think this model was proposed deliberately, but it does shows a marked lack of cultural competence. You notice there is a real lack of any Imperial Japanese subjects from Chinese manufacturers. So they understand it isn't all about history.

Maybe an email along these lines could "raise Thunder's consciousness."
Just my two cents worth.
In other words, "they were also used to transport the "enemies of the nation" (so-called by the Nazi regime) to concentration camps."

That many not be enough for a history textbook or a museum placard, but it's perfectly adequate for a dumb ol' model kit description.

KL
Last edited by Kurt-Laughlin on September 18th, 2017, 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 25th, 2010, 11:34 pm

September 18th, 2017, 11:23 pm #4

While I am continually amazed by the wealth of new kits and, for the most part, the detail and accuracy of those kits, I am still saddened and dismayed that in the zeal to get new products out, manufacturers can be so "blase" over what they are producing.

Take the new kit announced by Thunder models.
German Gedeckter Guterwagen G10.
Even in the promotion text Thunder does state "they were also used to transport "enemies of the nation" to concentration camps."

My question is:
Do we need to have a model of the boxcar that became a symbol of the Final Solution?

Maybe the Chinese company doesn't have the cultural reference to know how close to crossing the line this kit is. Even Dragon, who has shown it is quite willing to put out figures for even some of the most controversial military groups and/or situations has understood that a set of Einsatzgruppen figures would be "beyond the pale."

I don't think this model was proposed deliberately, but it does shows a marked lack of cultural competence. You notice there is a real lack of any Imperial Japanese subjects from Chinese manufacturers. So they understand it isn't all about history.

Maybe an email along these lines could "raise Thunder's consciousness."
Just my two cents worth.
. . . . the projected power and influence of the Panzer III's, IV's, the Me 109's, FW 190's, the Type VII's, etc., etc., so where does one draw the "out raged/offended" line in the sand/blood. If one models military equipment, one MUST be aware that their purpose is/was to exercise ultimate violence against one's fellow man. Unless one just models ambulances.
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Joined: February 21st, 2004, 10:10 pm

September 18th, 2017, 11:53 pm #5

..Thunder models mention concentration as opposed to extermination camps ( two very different things ) and are non specific as to who they mean by enemies ( communists ?! ) this is what Wikipedia says :-

"Holocaust scholars draw a distinction between concentration camps and extermination camps, which were established by Nazi Germany for the industrial-scale mass murder of Jews in the ghettos by way of gas chambers".

So basically what Thunder models are advertising is not specific to the final solution / Holocaust because they mention neither Jews or Gypsies nor extermination camps.
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Joined: April 23rd, 2005, 2:01 pm

September 19th, 2017, 12:09 am #6

While I am continually amazed by the wealth of new kits and, for the most part, the detail and accuracy of those kits, I am still saddened and dismayed that in the zeal to get new products out, manufacturers can be so "blase" over what they are producing.

Take the new kit announced by Thunder models.
German Gedeckter Guterwagen G10.
Even in the promotion text Thunder does state "they were also used to transport "enemies of the nation" to concentration camps."

My question is:
Do we need to have a model of the boxcar that became a symbol of the Final Solution?

Maybe the Chinese company doesn't have the cultural reference to know how close to crossing the line this kit is. Even Dragon, who has shown it is quite willing to put out figures for even some of the most controversial military groups and/or situations has understood that a set of Einsatzgruppen figures would be "beyond the pale."

I don't think this model was proposed deliberately, but it does shows a marked lack of cultural competence. You notice there is a real lack of any Imperial Japanese subjects from Chinese manufacturers. So they understand it isn't all about history.

Maybe an email along these lines could "raise Thunder's consciousness."
Just my two cents worth.
...Trumpeter (1/35)/Hobby Boss (1/72) BR 52 locomotive is also a symbol of the so-called "Final solution", those were spotted pulling trains, some with G/G10 covered wagons, hither and thither, maybe some were KZ-bound? After all, it is "Kriegslokomotive", isn't it?
BTW, comrade Stalin also used to transport "enemies of the nation" in captured ex-German rolling stock long after WW2 was over.
If you have a strong wish to find Nazi propaganda you can find it even in the usual pencil (used to torture the enemies of the nation in Gestapo basements).
Just my 2 cents.
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Joined: April 22nd, 2005, 1:05 am

September 19th, 2017, 12:56 am #7

While I am continually amazed by the wealth of new kits and, for the most part, the detail and accuracy of those kits, I am still saddened and dismayed that in the zeal to get new products out, manufacturers can be so "blase" over what they are producing.

Take the new kit announced by Thunder models.
German Gedeckter Guterwagen G10.
Even in the promotion text Thunder does state "they were also used to transport "enemies of the nation" to concentration camps."

My question is:
Do we need to have a model of the boxcar that became a symbol of the Final Solution?

Maybe the Chinese company doesn't have the cultural reference to know how close to crossing the line this kit is. Even Dragon, who has shown it is quite willing to put out figures for even some of the most controversial military groups and/or situations has understood that a set of Einsatzgruppen figures would be "beyond the pale."

I don't think this model was proposed deliberately, but it does shows a marked lack of cultural competence. You notice there is a real lack of any Imperial Japanese subjects from Chinese manufacturers. So they understand it isn't all about history.

Maybe an email along these lines could "raise Thunder's consciousness."
Just my two cents worth.
I would put that distinction on the model builder, not the company.

It could be built in a way that I would think crosses the but I plan on building at least one. I'd like to have one being loaded with supplies, one with "Von Ryan's Express" painted on the side after the David Westheimer book and movie. Maybe one as it appears today in a Museum.

I have long suspected that other companies have not done a box car to avoid the association you mention.

Thanks
David
Last edited by DavidBourland on September 19th, 2017, 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 18th, 2013, 11:02 pm

September 19th, 2017, 1:12 am #8

Even the puny European boxcars would be quite large in 1/35, dominating a scene. Also, you can put a tank on a flat car or even a gondola, or an AA gun. With a boxcar there's not much to see.

KL
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Joined: February 27th, 2005, 7:41 pm

September 19th, 2017, 3:32 am #9

was one of the most numerous pieces of rolling stock on the German railroad system, with some 100,000 examples from various manufacturers. Obviously, it was used for everything the Germans needed to be carried from one place to another. You could model this as part of any sort of goods train, or as part of a panzer supply train.
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Joined: August 19th, 2005, 8:49 pm

September 19th, 2017, 10:38 am #10

It then does beg the question why market it with a "slant" toward the subject they have
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