Sherman's with hvss suspension and "double duck" bills?

The Modern AFV discussion group is hosted by Erik Gustavsson and covers the variety of AFVs used by all nations in the post WWII era.

Sherman's with hvss suspension and "double duck" bills?

Joined: October 12th, 2010, 4:02 pm

July 29th, 2012, 3:34 am #1

I beleive this is the right place to ask, since this apears to be a post war change to the Sherman on tanks sold to countries like Pakistan.
The Sherman has hvss suspension, but the tracks are the "old" kind with duck bills on both end connectors (so, double the duckbills)
Is this version as easy as taking an hvss Sherman and fitting the old style tracks with duckbills? I am guessing you would need to also use an older style drive sprocket?
I have seen some models made of Pakistan Sherman's like this, but no info on how to do the conversion.
Thanks much!
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Joined: April 12th, 2007, 10:42 pm

July 29th, 2012, 6:48 am #2

And asked the same question...

Matt
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Joined: July 30th, 2006, 1:12 am

July 29th, 2012, 7:22 am #3

I beleive this is the right place to ask, since this apears to be a post war change to the Sherman on tanks sold to countries like Pakistan.
The Sherman has hvss suspension, but the tracks are the "old" kind with duck bills on both end connectors (so, double the duckbills)
Is this version as easy as taking an hvss Sherman and fitting the old style tracks with duckbills? I am guessing you would need to also use an older style drive sprocket?
I have seen some models made of Pakistan Sherman's like this, but no info on how to do the conversion.
Thanks much!
Let's just start with the fact that with HVVS suspension VVS track is not going to fit duckbills or not. So don't worry about the drive sprocket. Pakistan and India had Shermans with VVS that were of the E9 type that would be something like say an M4A1E9. If you are not familiar with the E9 type Shermans they were a development for the invasion of Japan. Take a standard VVS tank space the suspension out from the hull and give it double duckbills. What you get is the lower ground pressure like and HVVS but with out mounting new suspension. So maybe the spaced out VVS is what you are seeing. Like I said Pakistan and India had a lot of E9s. Now if you have a pic of this with HVVS pleas post it I know us Sherman nut jobs would like to see it. Hope this helps Beau.
Last edited by bminnick on July 29th, 2012, 7:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: October 12th, 2010, 4:02 pm

July 29th, 2012, 9:04 am #4

Well that answers one question!
I must be daft.

How did they space the suspension/sprocket/idler out from the hull?
Yes, this was sparked from seeing the Sherman in fsm, but I left my mag at work and asked the question off of a failing memory. I guess I assumed it was the easy 8 suspension.
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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

July 29th, 2012, 11:57 am #5

I beleive this is the right place to ask, since this apears to be a post war change to the Sherman on tanks sold to countries like Pakistan.
The Sherman has hvss suspension, but the tracks are the "old" kind with duck bills on both end connectors (so, double the duckbills)
Is this version as easy as taking an hvss Sherman and fitting the old style tracks with duckbills? I am guessing you would need to also use an older style drive sprocket?
I have seen some models made of Pakistan Sherman's like this, but no info on how to do the conversion.
Thanks much!
I would not take anything in FSM very seriously if thats where the story came from. VVSS track used end connectors and single wide road wheels. HVSS track has no end connectors and requires narrow, paired, roadwheels as the track has a center guide horn.

They did use double extended end connectors on VVSS track and there was a kit to space out the suspension from the hull to allow for the connectors on the hull side.

DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: November 23rd, 2000, 3:27 am

July 29th, 2012, 12:33 pm #6

Let's just start with the fact that with HVVS suspension VVS track is not going to fit duckbills or not. So don't worry about the drive sprocket. Pakistan and India had Shermans with VVS that were of the E9 type that would be something like say an M4A1E9. If you are not familiar with the E9 type Shermans they were a development for the invasion of Japan. Take a standard VVS tank space the suspension out from the hull and give it double duckbills. What you get is the lower ground pressure like and HVVS but with out mounting new suspension. So maybe the spaced out VVS is what you are seeing. Like I said Pakistan and India had a lot of E9s. Now if you have a pic of this with HVVS pleas post it I know us Sherman nut jobs would like to see it. Hope this helps Beau.


http://click2detail.com/products-details.php?pro_id=335

I haven't acquired a set yet to know if it includes the idler mounts as well.

Regards,

Saúl García
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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

July 29th, 2012, 12:34 pm #7

Well that answers one question!
I must be daft.

How did they space the suspension/sprocket/idler out from the hull?
Yes, this was sparked from seeing the Sherman in fsm, but I left my mag at work and asked the question off of a failing memory. I guess I assumed it was the easy 8 suspension.
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minu ... nsion.html

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/th ... Suspension
DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: January 12th, 2007, 8:42 pm

July 29th, 2012, 12:36 pm #8

Well that answers one question!
I must be daft.

How did they space the suspension/sprocket/idler out from the hull?
Yes, this was sparked from seeing the Sherman in fsm, but I left my mag at work and asked the question off of a failing memory. I guess I assumed it was the easy 8 suspension.
Aaron, it was done by welding 4.5" thick pads to the hull sides and mounting the VVSS bogie frame to those. The idler mount was new; essentially a doubling of an additional mount on top the the original one. Formations once made a limited-edition set of the E9 set; John Rybak may still have the molds. It's the track for one of these that will get expensive; you need two sets of Panda duckbills to go with the usual track.

Greg
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Joined: October 12th, 2010, 4:02 pm

July 29th, 2012, 1:23 pm #9



http://click2detail.com/products-details.php?pro_id=335

I haven't acquired a set yet to know if it includes the idler mounts as well.

Regards,

Saúl García
If you click on the tab "parts" it lists idler brackets and sprocket spacers...
awesome

Thanks!
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Joined: October 12th, 2010, 4:02 pm

July 29th, 2012, 1:29 pm #10

I would not take anything in FSM very seriously if thats where the story came from. VVSS track used end connectors and single wide road wheels. HVSS track has no end connectors and requires narrow, paired, roadwheels as the track has a center guide horn.

They did use double extended end connectors on VVSS track and there was a kit to space out the suspension from the hull to allow for the connectors on the hull side.
It was an article in the latest fsm about a guy who has over 70 Sherman's built, they looked very nice. I saw the wide tracks and somehow got hvss in my head. I don't have the article in front of me so had to rely on bad memory.
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