Sherman Bogies : Bolt holes under skid

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Hosted by John Prigent and Steve Zaloga, this is a discussion group dedicated to the armoured forces of the many Allied nations of the Second World War.

Sherman Bogies : Bolt holes under skid

Joined: January 10th, 2012, 5:56 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 12:40 pm #1

Hi,

Does anybody have any decent images of the 2 bolt holes under the skids on top of the VVSS sherman skids so I can add them to my old Dragon Fryfly Hybrid Ic suspension?

I've trawled the web and everything I've found is at just too much of an angle.

There seems to be a raised rim (or washer) round the holes, part of the main casting or a separate part ?

How deep are the holes ?

Are they directly under the centerline of the skid or offset outside/hullside ?

thanks
Anthony
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Joined: November 27th, 2003, 10:47 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 12:56 pm #2


try here...its an M7 but very same bogie



ciao!





http://www.hsstudio.it
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 4:04 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 1:04 pm #3

Hi,

Does anybody have any decent images of the 2 bolt holes under the skids on top of the VVSS sherman skids so I can add them to my old Dragon Fryfly Hybrid Ic suspension?

I've trawled the web and everything I've found is at just too much of an angle.

There seems to be a raised rim (or washer) round the holes, part of the main casting or a separate part ?

How deep are the holes ?

Are they directly under the centerline of the skid or offset outside/hullside ?

thanks
Anthony
Anthony,

Fabio's part diagram should be a huge help. But it may not completely answer your questions. I have looked at a number of bogie castings. Some have a bit of a raised lip around the threaded hole that is a part of the casting, but IIRC, these are not present on all. Also these holes are located above the centers of the two volute springs, that may help you properly place them.

Hope this helps,
Rob
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Joined: September 6th, 2002, 2:07 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 1:44 pm #4

Rob,
Do you know the purpose for these access holes ? Didn't these plugs have square recesses ?
Good luck with the upcoming show. To bad we didn't get a chance to talk at AMPS Nats.


Jim Guld

Cheers
Jim Guld
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Joined: May 24th, 2003, 3:07 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 2:28 pm #5

if these were in some way linked to installing or repairing the volute springs. They might be part of some tooling that compresses the springs so the suspension arms can be moved more easily or as part of the initial spring and arm installation process.

There are a number of mechanisms I could think of that could use such a threaded hole to assist in the volute installation or maintenance.

As for the raised lip, that would be a feature of the individual foundaries that produced the bogey housings. If there was a need to have an area of a certain flatness (say for installing a bolt & washer) a foundary might not be able to control the surface of the casting well enough to guarantee that flatness. In those cases it is quite common to have a small raised area, called a "boss", which is held to tighter tolerances or is separately machined to achieve the tolerances required on the drawings. Other foundaries might decide to do it a different way, perhaps by machining a small flat bottomed surface to achive the same tolerance. These small flat-bottomed features machined into the surface are called "counterbores". And, just for completeness, a feature machined into the surface that has a conical shape is called a "countersink' and used with countersink fasteners. Most of us are very familiar with these from woodworking.

HTH

Paul

Paul Roberts

Join AMPS!
www.amps-armor.org
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 4:04 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 2:37 pm #6

Rob,
Do you know the purpose for these access holes ? Didn't these plugs have square recesses ?
Good luck with the upcoming show. To bad we didn't get a chance to talk at AMPS Nats.


Jim Guld
Jim,

I don't have the parts breakdown drawing with the parts labeled that I can readily lay my hands on. I have always assumed that they were an access point to some sort of fastener or retainer in the center of the bottom end of the volute springs, but I'm not certain of that. Maybe someone with more experience with the real vehicles can comment, like Adrian Barrell.

Sorry we didn't have more time at AMPS. It was fun to be there without the ball and chain of the vendor table.

I am really looking forward to the MVPA/AMPS show next month in Huntsville. These MVPA events are a great opportunity to see a ton of vehicles close up, and engage their owners in conversation. Two years ago in Evansville Indiana Randy Canova and I were complimenting a guy on how great his M29 Weasel looked, and 5 minutes later he was riding us all around the grounds of the show.

I'd really suggest anyone who can make the journey to Huntsville will be glad they did!

Here's a link to the MVPA Home Page with info on the show.

http://www.mvpa.org/home/mvpa-conventio ... onvention/

Hope to see some of you there.
Rob
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Joined: January 10th, 2012, 5:56 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 3:20 pm #7

Thanks for the help chaps,

It's especially good to know there was variation,

I think the easiest way to go will be to glue on a bolt&washer, made with my PH Designs die, the cut off and drill out the bolt (annoyingly my leather punchwheel discs are all too large) to represent the slightly raised variant

Now if only I hadn't noticed them in the first place I would not have all the extra work to do!
(ha ha)
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Joined: September 6th, 2002, 2:07 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 3:32 pm #8

Anthony,
After your done, don't forget to add the mud/dirt to fill in those holes. (___)

Jim Guld
Cheers
Jim Guld
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Joined: September 6th, 2002, 2:07 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 3:44 pm #9

Jim,

I don't have the parts breakdown drawing with the parts labeled that I can readily lay my hands on. I have always assumed that they were an access point to some sort of fastener or retainer in the center of the bottom end of the volute springs, but I'm not certain of that. Maybe someone with more experience with the real vehicles can comment, like Adrian Barrell.

Sorry we didn't have more time at AMPS. It was fun to be there without the ball and chain of the vendor table.

I am really looking forward to the MVPA/AMPS show next month in Huntsville. These MVPA events are a great opportunity to see a ton of vehicles close up, and engage their owners in conversation. Two years ago in Evansville Indiana Randy Canova and I were complimenting a guy on how great his M29 Weasel looked, and 5 minutes later he was riding us all around the grounds of the show.

I'd really suggest anyone who can make the journey to Huntsville will be glad they did!

Here's a link to the MVPA Home Page with info on the show.

http://www.mvpa.org/home/mvpa-conventio ... onvention/

Hope to see some of you there.
Rob
Rob,
100% agree about having MVPA at shows. Our local IPMS club, Albuquerque Scale Modelers, worked with them on the last two regional shows we did and this past one in 2011, Chile Con II, we had an M-18 out and it drove to and from the show. Here is the link to some pictures of it. Scroll down towards the bottom of the page.
http://gallery.me.com/jwalters#100628


Jim Guld
Cheers
Jim Guld
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Joined: September 30th, 2005, 9:02 pm

May 22nd, 2012, 8:47 pm #10

Rob,
Do you know the purpose for these access holes ? Didn't these plugs have square recesses ?
Good luck with the upcoming show. To bad we didn't get a chance to talk at AMPS Nats.


Jim Guld
I have more e-mail me at othertrax@msn.com if you would like them bigger.
Karl.
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