Sd.Kfz. 250/3 "Greif" WIP

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This "virtual workbench" is hosted by Robert Oehler and Brett Green, and is designed so that Missing-lynx readers can share their "in progress" photos with the rest of the readership and generate constructive discussions. Participation is open to all Missing-lynx visitors.

Sd.Kfz. 250/3 "Greif" WIP

Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

April 15th, 2012, 1:52 pm #1

This is the old Tamiya kit with some help from Dragon.

Tamiya's kit actually, for its age, is not "bad". Some of the detailing is actually better than the newer Dragon kit, like the transmission which Dragon totally omitted. Still, most of the detail is a bit coarse or simple by modern standards. The tracks are particularly poor. To use some new tracks, I had to use new wheels so the tracks would fit. Oddly the original Tamiya kit included correct, handed, drive sprockets specific to the left and right side, while Dragon has a single generic sprocket, albeit with better detail.

The Dragon parts fit the Tamiya chassis with minimal modification. I had to drill out the axle holes for the front wheels and the middle roadwheels only. The parts are not cemented in place yet.

[/IMG]

Tamiya's front suspension is not badly detailed and is posable.

[/IMG]

The most work so far has gone into fixing the upper hull. I never saw any mention of this issue before, but the Tamiya kit has a thick ledge around the upper hull to facilitate adding the roof to their 250/9 kit. The ledge is inappropriate for the 250/3. Cutting it away reveals some problems with the thickness of the hull being greater below the ledge than above it. Nothing some heavy sanding with a file did not fix. You can see the side close to the camera has not been fixed yet.

[/IMG]

This is a good fun project. I had some resin Jaguar replacement parts for the Dragon kit that I can use there, so I decided to use the redundant Dragon parts here.



DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: December 11th, 2005, 9:25 pm

April 15th, 2012, 2:21 pm #2

David,
I'll be interested in watching your progress with this since I have this kit unbuilt and a lot of Jaguar suspension update parts for my Dragon kit as well. Do you intend to leave the molded-on detail on the left rear fender? As I recall, one of the pluses of the Tamiya kit is that it correctly provides different decals of "Greif" for the left and right side, whereas Dragon simply duplicates the left-side version.
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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

April 15th, 2012, 2:31 pm #3

I notice that Tank Workshop makes/made a set of corrected fenders for the kit that don't have all the molded junk. I probably will just use the kit parts and paint it up sharply. I really don't want to go to a huge amount of effort to totally remake the Tamiya kit. Swapping out some wheels that I already had was not hard. And I did have to fix that lip on the hull. The Tamiya kit decals are also correct. I think the Revell boxing of the Dragon kit was also correct compared to the actual Dragon issue.

The Jaguar resin parts are simply resin copies of the kit parts with minimal if any changes. The front wheels are 100% identical. The roadhweels are identical aside from some light scuffing of the tires. The resin hull sides are the same and even have Dragon's mold sink marks along their outer face, although the knock out pins inside were filled and sanded smooth before they made a mold.
DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: February 10th, 2009, 3:06 am

April 15th, 2012, 3:16 pm #4

This is the old Tamiya kit with some help from Dragon.

Tamiya's kit actually, for its age, is not "bad". Some of the detailing is actually better than the newer Dragon kit, like the transmission which Dragon totally omitted. Still, most of the detail is a bit coarse or simple by modern standards. The tracks are particularly poor. To use some new tracks, I had to use new wheels so the tracks would fit. Oddly the original Tamiya kit included correct, handed, drive sprockets specific to the left and right side, while Dragon has a single generic sprocket, albeit with better detail.

The Dragon parts fit the Tamiya chassis with minimal modification. I had to drill out the axle holes for the front wheels and the middle roadwheels only. The parts are not cemented in place yet.

[/IMG]

Tamiya's front suspension is not badly detailed and is posable.

[/IMG]

The most work so far has gone into fixing the upper hull. I never saw any mention of this issue before, but the Tamiya kit has a thick ledge around the upper hull to facilitate adding the roof to their 250/9 kit. The ledge is inappropriate for the 250/3. Cutting it away reveals some problems with the thickness of the hull being greater below the ledge than above it. Nothing some heavy sanding with a file did not fix. You can see the side close to the camera has not been fixed yet.

[/IMG]

This is a good fun project. I had some resin Jaguar replacement parts for the Dragon kit that I can use there, so I decided to use the redundant Dragon parts here.


Dave,

I am currently working on Tamiya's 250/9 and I agree that the Tamiya 250s are often overlooked little gems. I would suggest using the Tank Workshop fenders though. They are inexpensive, drop riight on, and are the correct shape for the 250. If anything, I would strongly suggest the following, saw the bottom half of part B24 off where it meets the bottom of the hull and scratch-build the lower half to its correct rounded shape. I have no idea where Tamiya got the configuration for the front armored plate on their 250s as I have never seen this configuration on any of the 250s I have seen in photograghs of the actual vehicle. Good luck with your build, I will be following it closely.

Cheers

Seamus
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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

April 16th, 2012, 9:53 pm #5

I found a set on eBay and bought them.

A good reason to look at references before you cut is that I notice in the illustrations in the Spielberger halftrack book, the 250 does have a big ledge around the inside. But, I had not noticed this in looking at photos of Rommel in his 250/3 because I think in real life they are maybe half the width of the Tamiya ledge, and not so thick.

My choice now is to swap out the upper hull with a spare and keep the kit ledges, or remove the other ledge from the kit part, and then add to new, thinner, ones with plastic strip.
DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: December 11th, 2005, 9:25 pm

April 17th, 2012, 2:40 am #6

I notice that Tank Workshop makes/made a set of corrected fenders for the kit that don't have all the molded junk. I probably will just use the kit parts and paint it up sharply. I really don't want to go to a huge amount of effort to totally remake the Tamiya kit. Swapping out some wheels that I already had was not hard. And I did have to fix that lip on the hull. The Tamiya kit decals are also correct. I think the Revell boxing of the Dragon kit was also correct compared to the actual Dragon issue.

The Jaguar resin parts are simply resin copies of the kit parts with minimal if any changes. The front wheels are 100% identical. The roadhweels are identical aside from some light scuffing of the tires. The resin hull sides are the same and even have Dragon's mold sink marks along their outer face, although the knock out pins inside were filled and sanded smooth before they made a mold.
I think the Jaguar drive sprockets have bolt heads around the inside of the rim, which are missing on the kit parts. I think the roadwheels are also supposed to be worn, although it's too long since I've looked at them to tell if there's any visible difference with the kit wheels.
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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

April 17th, 2012, 1:13 pm #7

The roadwheels have light wear. The sprockets do have the little bolt heads added inside the rim. The molding (at least on my set) is not great and there is a lot of clean up. It would take less time to add some bolt heads to the kit parts than clean up the Jaguar ones. I am using the Jaguar ones on the Dragon kit and the Dragon parts here.

DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: November 2nd, 2006, 10:19 am

April 18th, 2012, 8:08 am #8

This is the old Tamiya kit with some help from Dragon.

Tamiya's kit actually, for its age, is not "bad". Some of the detailing is actually better than the newer Dragon kit, like the transmission which Dragon totally omitted. Still, most of the detail is a bit coarse or simple by modern standards. The tracks are particularly poor. To use some new tracks, I had to use new wheels so the tracks would fit. Oddly the original Tamiya kit included correct, handed, drive sprockets specific to the left and right side, while Dragon has a single generic sprocket, albeit with better detail.

The Dragon parts fit the Tamiya chassis with minimal modification. I had to drill out the axle holes for the front wheels and the middle roadwheels only. The parts are not cemented in place yet.

[/IMG]

Tamiya's front suspension is not badly detailed and is posable.

[/IMG]

The most work so far has gone into fixing the upper hull. I never saw any mention of this issue before, but the Tamiya kit has a thick ledge around the upper hull to facilitate adding the roof to their 250/9 kit. The ledge is inappropriate for the 250/3. Cutting it away reveals some problems with the thickness of the hull being greater below the ledge than above it. Nothing some heavy sanding with a file did not fix. You can see the side close to the camera has not been fixed yet.

[/IMG]

This is a good fun project. I had some resin Jaguar replacement parts for the Dragon kit that I can use there, so I decided to use the redundant Dragon parts here.


Hello David

Your build looks good and it is nice to see these old kits being used.

you may want to reconsider the removal of the lip to attach the roof.

All sdkfz 250 had this lip as they are all derived from the sdkfz 253 which was fitted with an armoured roof.

I have attached a photo I found on the internet



Hope this helps

Dean
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Joined: August 12th, 2004, 3:14 pm

April 18th, 2012, 12:09 pm #9

I think the photo you show is from a Neu vehicle and it does not really have the same lip. In real life the kit lip would be something like 6 inches wide. I had used some photos like this to determine I needed to remove the lip.

BUT the Alte vehicle does have more of a lip than the Neu. I think the kit lip is still far too wide and also thick. What I may do is remove (the rest of) the kit lip and then add it back in a narrower thinner form with some strip plastic. That way I can also sand down the top edge of the hull a bit for a sharper look.

This photo reminds me also... does anyone know of a photo of the inside rear hatch on an Alte vehicle that shows the visor? the Tamiya kit (and the greif) had a vision visor on the back but Tamiya lacks any detail on the inside.

Thanks for the input.
DAVID NICKELS
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Joined: February 10th, 2009, 3:06 am

April 19th, 2012, 3:23 pm #10

Dave,

I have made a check of my 250 references and have made note of the following. The majority of 250s, either Alte or Nue did not have a vision visor on the rear door. It seems that only the 250/3, 250/9, and Rommel's 250 did have a vision visor on the rear door. I also noticed something else, the vast majority of 250s had their headlamps mounted on the fenders and not on the body. I suspect that Tamiya based it's 250 kits on post war 250s made by Skoda, but that is only a guess.

Cheers

Seamus
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