Roden Rolls-Royce and Caunter

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Roden Rolls-Royce and Caunter

Joined: April 28th, 2005, 2:06 pm

September 11th, 2009, 8:18 pm #1

For anyone contemplating putting the 1941 Caunter pattern onto this model, don't. It never carried it. It was the 1929 model with a different turret that carried Caunter and some old 1929 bodies on RAF Fordson chassis too. Both different beasties.
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Joined: August 5th, 2005, 9:47 am

September 11th, 2009, 9:31 pm #2

Hi Mike!

This is not totally correct.

As you write, the 11th Hussars had 1924 (not 1929, there were no such thing) Pattern RR with Frazer-Nash turrets and RAF had Fordsson ACs with was RR bodies (both 1920 and earlier, but not 1924) on Fordssonchassies.

BUT, and this is the thing, there is a couple of photos of a burnt out RR 1920 Pattern in caunter from NA wich Rommer inspects. This RR has all the RAF Fordsson modifications like scarfering and Boys AT rifle mounted in the turrets RH side, but ist clearly a RR 1920 pattern and not a Fordsson.
Also there is a photo from Iraq of a RR 1920 pattern named "Tigris" wich is also in Caunter (this photo is in the old Bellona series fex).
Here is an earlier thread with two photos (close ups actually) of the RR 1920 pattern inspected by Rommel:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/th ... yce+Wheels

I suspect that these cars were a few wich out of some reason werent modified to Fordssons, why, I dont know....
So while most RRs in Caunter arent RR 1920 pattern but Fordssons and RR 1924 pattern there were a few 1920 patterns still around.


Erik
Sweden
Last edited by Erik_Ahlstroem on September 11th, 2009, 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 26th, 2007, 1:14 am

September 13th, 2009, 3:53 am #3


At least I believe that the car in the "Rommel" photo is from that unit -  No. 2 had Fordsons.

However we still have a problem with the kit wheels as these Caunter finished cars seem to have split rims and single rear wheels in place of the discs and dual wheels of the original 1920 design.

I can't be sure when the RAF AC companies began using these wheels, but photos of 11th Hussars RRs taken in England before 1934 show their 1920 pattern cars had split rims. All the Middle East photos from this regiment show the split rims  which seem to be common with the 1924 pattern cars, but the RAF cars seem to have kept the disc a bit longer
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Joined: August 5th, 2005, 9:47 am

September 13th, 2009, 10:40 am #4

Correct!

The wheels have to be changed for a Middle East RR.
If photos are anything to go by the wheelchange seems to have been done some years before the war in the ME.
The RR 1920 patterns in GB seems to have kept the older wheels, possible for the cars all service carrier (but this is a pure guess from my side).

Erik
Sweden
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Joined: April 28th, 2005, 2:06 pm

September 13th, 2009, 9:07 pm #5

Hi Mike!

This is not totally correct.

As you write, the 11th Hussars had 1924 (not 1929, there were no such thing) Pattern RR with Frazer-Nash turrets and RAF had Fordsson ACs with was RR bodies (both 1920 and earlier, but not 1924) on Fordssonchassies.

BUT, and this is the thing, there is a couple of photos of a burnt out RR 1920 Pattern in caunter from NA wich Rommer inspects. This RR has all the RAF Fordsson modifications like scarfering and Boys AT rifle mounted in the turrets RH side, but ist clearly a RR 1920 pattern and not a Fordsson.
Also there is a photo from Iraq of a RR 1920 pattern named "Tigris" wich is also in Caunter (this photo is in the old Bellona series fex).
Here is an earlier thread with two photos (close ups actually) of the RR 1920 pattern inspected by Rommel:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/th ... yce+Wheels

I suspect that these cars were a few wich out of some reason werent modified to Fordssons, why, I dont know....
So while most RRs in Caunter arent RR 1920 pattern but Fordssons and RR 1924 pattern there were a few 1920 patterns still around.


Erik
Sweden
The datewas my error, I did intend to write 1924. However I was not aware the the 'Rommel' picture was of a 1920 model. I have read that the cars with scarff rings were actually RAF cars from Palestine which were seconded to 11 H as 'D' squadron during 1941.
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Joined: January 4th, 2004, 10:28 pm

September 14th, 2009, 1:44 am #6

For anyone contemplating putting the 1941 Caunter pattern onto this model, don't. It never carried it. It was the 1929 model with a different turret that carried Caunter and some old 1929 bodies on RAF Fordson chassis too. Both different beasties.
The 1920 RR inspected by Rommel is likely from RAF No.1 Company. No. 2 ACC did have their cars converted to Fordsons by that time. It was No.2 ACC which acted as "D Squadron" for the 11th Hussars, not No.1 ACC.

The No.1 ACC car did have the requisite modifications before going out into the Western Desert, the Boyes ATR mount, and the Scarff Ring for the car commander.

I might be going out on a limb, but I would suggest that the Boyes mount was added at local workshops when No.1 ACC came through Egypt from Iraq. The Scarff Ring was used pre-war.

Could someone take a look at No.1 ACC's War Diary to confirm it's movements and location?
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Joined: July 26th, 2007, 1:14 am

September 15th, 2009, 2:24 am #7

Correct!

The wheels have to be changed for a Middle East RR.
If photos are anything to go by the wheelchange seems to have been done some years before the war in the ME.
The RR 1920 patterns in GB seems to have kept the older wheels, possible for the cars all service carrier (but this is a pure guess from my side).

Erik
Sweden
I meant to point out that the split rims weren't unique to the Middle East. but perhaps I wasn't as clear as I meant to be.

There are photos taken at Aldershot of 1920 pattern cars showing the split rims in use by the early thirties in home service

 

 
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