Q/ regarding Sherman II T145063(8), camouflage and hull type

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Q/ regarding Sherman II T145063(8), camouflage and hull type

Joined: April 19th, 2005, 7:05 pm

May 1st, 2012, 1:10 pm #1

Hello all,

I have three questions regarding this Sherman II, probably T145063 or T145068:


1. Had this Sherman a welded or a rivited lower hull?
2. What camouflage did this one have? Light Stone 61 and Black, Dessert Pink and Black or were the dark patches the original OD No.9? The light colour is very worn off on the glacis showing probably the original OD with traces of Sand/ DP.
3. Where was the aerial recognition roundel most likely? Turret or engine deck?

It´s probably from 9th Queen´s Royal Lancers.

Many thanks,

Thomas
Last edited by Thomas Voigt on May 1st, 2012, 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 9th, 2011, 11:44 pm

May 1st, 2012, 1:37 pm #2

Hi Thomas,

1. I believe these were of the riveted hull variety.

2. Based on conversations with Mike Starmer, the hull and road wheels were still OD. It had white counter shade under the transmission as seen in the photo. The 'base' color added over the OD was light stone, which does appear to be wearing away. The darker color is SCC 7, Dark Green. Desert pink wasn't an official color at this time yet.

3. I placed mine on the engine deck. I haven't seen a photo one way or the other to verify this. Mike Starmer put it there too, so I rest my case on that. (ha!)


Here's my version of this tank: http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/t ... 28tasca%29

Looks like you actually commented on it back in December.
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 7:05 pm

May 1st, 2012, 2:01 pm #3

Jesse,

many, many thanks! You are right, I commented it... and forgot...

The dark patches look sooo dark, I would have bet it was black...
I am a little surprised to read it´s SCC7 as Mike quoted in his Tamiya mixes, the colour was used for canvas.

Thomas

Last edited by Thomas Voigt on May 1st, 2012, 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: August 17th, 2001, 1:42 pm

May 1st, 2012, 2:59 pm #4

Hello all,

I have three questions regarding this Sherman II, probably T145063 or T145068:


1. Had this Sherman a welded or a rivited lower hull?
2. What camouflage did this one have? Light Stone 61 and Black, Dessert Pink and Black or were the dark patches the original OD No.9? The light colour is very worn off on the glacis showing probably the original OD with traces of Sand/ DP.
3. Where was the aerial recognition roundel most likely? Turret or engine deck?

It´s probably from 9th Queen´s Royal Lancers.

Many thanks,

Thomas
While this is not the same tank, it appears to be from the same unit:



If it is the same unit, I would say that the unit's tanks were most likely built by Lima Locomotive rather than Pressed Steel Car (PSC). The rounded lower rear corner of the hull indicates that the tank was built by Lima and had a welded lower hull.

Another clue is the final drive housing. PSC used one piece final drive housings on their very first batch of Shermans. Lima used three piece final drive housings for their initial batches of thank, and didn't use the one piece units until much later.

Mike Canaday
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Joined: February 9th, 2011, 11:44 pm

May 1st, 2012, 3:11 pm #5

I've never seen those photos, not that I've done much research.

Thanks Mike.
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Joined: August 17th, 2001, 1:42 pm

May 1st, 2012, 7:13 pm #6

Your rendition is a nice one. I think the DML kit is probably the better one to use for this particular tank since it has the Lima type lower hull.

Mike Canaday
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Joined: February 9th, 2011, 11:44 pm

May 1st, 2012, 8:06 pm #7


Last edited by PseudoRealityX on May 1st, 2012, 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: May 20th, 2005, 2:17 pm

May 2nd, 2012, 6:22 am #8

While this is not the same tank, it appears to be from the same unit:



If it is the same unit, I would say that the unit's tanks were most likely built by Lima Locomotive rather than Pressed Steel Car (PSC). The rounded lower rear corner of the hull indicates that the tank was built by Lima and had a welded lower hull.

Another clue is the final drive housing. PSC used one piece final drive housings on their very first batch of Shermans. Lima used three piece final drive housings for their initial batches of thank, and didn't use the one piece units until much later.

Mike Canaday
Hi Mike,


I am very interested by Sherman II of this unit.
Can you please tell me British Pathe ID film number from which you found these pictures.

Thanks and best regards

Serge
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Joined: August 17th, 2001, 1:42 pm

May 2nd, 2012, 6:52 pm #9

Serge,

The film ID is 1342.30

Mike Canaday
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Joined: April 28th, 2005, 2:06 pm

May 3rd, 2012, 8:39 pm #10

Hello all,

I have three questions regarding this Sherman II, probably T145063 or T145068:


1. Had this Sherman a welded or a rivited lower hull?
2. What camouflage did this one have? Light Stone 61 and Black, Dessert Pink and Black or were the dark patches the original OD No.9? The light colour is very worn off on the glacis showing probably the original OD with traces of Sand/ DP.
3. Where was the aerial recognition roundel most likely? Turret or engine deck?

It´s probably from 9th Queen´s Royal Lancers.

Many thanks,

Thomas
These particular Shermans are black and Light Stone 61. I have other pictures in the series too. I would appear that the unit had mix of schemes in use at the same time. The outer faces of the bogies are darker than the wheels and notice the part sprayed drive sprocket, the under hull is O/D. I believe that the pattern here is the first type issued about 6 September 1942, it was amended and reissued about two weeks later and that was the pattern that appears in later pictures that show a lower contrast between colours.
The I.D. roundel should be on the rear deck but later in the year during the pursuit so much kit was carried there that roundels were then applied to the turret top.
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