Panthers in Soumont-St-Quentin. Where is the correct location ?

Joined: 5:05 PM - Mar 03, 2014

3:39 PM - Oct 10, 2018 #1

Hello,

I am looking for the exact location of the photos shown here.

In the context is often called Soumont-St-Quentin in Normandy. I'm almost sure I've seen the place once in a then & now photo. But i could also be wrong.

So far my search with Google Street View has been unsuccessful.

About every little hint I would be very happy. Thank you very much.

Cheers
Ronny
Soumont-St-Quentin.jpg
Soumont-St-Quentin.jpg
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Joined: 5:16 PM - Oct 19, 2011

2:23 PM - Oct 11, 2018 #2

A link to a bit more info on the Ausf A Panther & Befehlspanther 

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/ ... 733&page=2

Thanks Antony
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Joined: 6:49 PM - Oct 18, 2004

8:00 PM - Oct 11, 2018 #3

Hi Ronny,

The link that Anthony provided gives us the answer, and it is in fact, Soumont-St.Quentin. I was able to find the church on Google Earth street view and match it to the Wehrmacht Awards photo.

Regards,

Tom
Tom Cockle
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Joined: 5:05 PM - Mar 03, 2014

10:40 PM - Oct 11, 2018 #4

Tom and Antony, thank you for your answers.

The third photo with the Panther next to the church Saint-Quentin was of course already known to me and I had previously created a comparison photo.
But I can not handle the other two photos taken at the same place. As I read, the two photos are said to have originated somewhere between Potigny and Soumont-Saint-Quentin near the N158. It could also be that the building in the background no longer exists  ... or it is a completely different place. However, the command tank next to the church is obviously the same as the one shown on the other photo.

Cheers
Ronny
Soumont-Saint-Quentin, Rue Paul Jamé, Kirche Saint-Quentin, then & now.jpg
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Joined: 7:09 PM - Mar 12, 2004

11:21 PM - Oct 11, 2018 #5

There is a 1946 air view of Soumont-St-Quentin here

https://remonterletemps.ign.fr/telechar ... ns.4963821

Click on each yellow dot and the downloadable photo opens in a new window.
I went right through the 5 pics and there is no matching building with two attic dormer windows but a lot of building are flattened and only the bases are visible. Its entirely possible the original building was destroyed.
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Joined: 1:37 AM - Apr 30, 2005

3:01 AM - Oct 12, 2018 #6

Gents,
 
My interpretation is that the photographer took these photographs not in the village of Soumont Saint Quentin, but in the hamlet of Les Hauts Vents (Ouilly-le-Tesson). He was looking east-southeast along the Rue des Fréres Vigouroux standing at the intersection of this street with the Rue des Ifs (left) and Rue des Courtillages (right).  Les Hauts Vents (Ouilly-le-Tesson) is located less than a kilometer northeast of Soumont Saint Quentin. Photo 1 was taken on the south side of Rue des Ifs and then photo 2 on the north side.

The address of the building on the right is currently 2, Rue des Fréres Vigouroux. In 1944 appears to be a large barn or storage facility made of limestone slabs and sandstone mortised edges and door/window lintels.  These can still be seen on the building’s south end. Since then it has been modified as a home with the elimination and/or modification of some windows, air vents, and doors, and the covering of the stonework by plaster.  The northern end appears to be missing and in its place a newer, smaller structure attached to the larger. However, some key features remain on the south end:
  • The elevated doorway
  • Three small air vents
  • Two grated windows
Regarding the latter, it appears the one on the right has been moved down, but is in the same location.
 
The commercial sign on the building in photo 2 for the “E. LERAILLY” firm was painted in an ideal position as it would be highly visible and in the direct line of sight to anyone moving east-southeast along the Rue des Freres Vigouroux – which happens to the direction towards Falaise where this firm was located. Note that the background ridgeline in the 1944 photos is today obscured by some low trees but can be seen by moving about 20 uphill on the Rue des Fréres Vigouroux in Google Earth.
 
If the location is correct, then the stationary Befehlpanther (right) is pointed downhill facing east-southeast towards the T-intersection with the north-south running Chemin des Rotours. The moving Panther is heading uphill from the Rue des Freres Vigouroux after turning left off the Chemin des Rotours coming from Soumont Saint Quentin. It appears to be heading out towards the community’s northwestern boundary to cover the broad open spaces facing the Quesnay Wood and N158 – the right flank of the British and Canadian attack for Operation Tractable on August 14.
 
Cheers,
 
David Photo Montage 1.png
Photo Montage 3.png
Photo Montage 2.png
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Joined: 7:09 PM - Mar 12, 2004

6:45 AM - Oct 12, 2018 #7

Not the same building. The one beside the Panther has a straight gutter line and the Haut one has a 'kink' where the two halves of the buildings meet. Also the stonework does not match at all. The killer though is the sign directly below the Panthers muzzle brake that says 'Soumont'. Most renditions of the photo over-expose the buildings to make the Panther lighter but I found a copy in the old Spielberger Panther book that brought out the detail on the building and tweeked it a bit more for background detail.
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Joined: 5:16 PM - Oct 19, 2011

7:29 AM - Oct 12, 2018 #8

Hi Michael,

I can't see where that signs says "Soumont" as it's advertising a Tissue/Confections shop in Falaise funny enough there's a letter sent from this shop on ebay now?  https://www.ebay.fr/itm/FRANCE-TIMBRE-P ... 3d762f2adb

Thanks Antony
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Joined: 7:09 PM - Mar 12, 2004

7:39 AM - Oct 12, 2018 #9

To the left of the big advert, the small dark plate. They are made to a standard pattern. There is another one around the corner to the left of the one you can see. That means that is a cross-roads.

mar2018163  bbbttyyyy.jpg

There is another sign at the top but it is too faded to read.  

mar2018163  bnnnnbb.jpg
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Joined: 7:09 PM - Mar 12, 2004

7:55 AM - Oct 12, 2018 #10

There is another sign visible in the pic with the Church in the background. Top RH corner. 

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