Orange Hobby 57mm Anti Tank gun shipping...

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Orange Hobby 57mm Anti Tank gun shipping...

Joined: September 21st, 2001, 12:15 pm

June 4th, 2012, 6:14 pm #1

I got notification from Hobby Easy that the new 1/35 scale 57mm Anti Tank gun was shipping from them.

Quick question, what was the prime mover of the 57mm? Jeep or a Dodge Beep truck?



Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.
Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.
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Joined: April 27th, 2005, 8:58 am

June 4th, 2012, 6:44 pm #2

In an infantry division the Dodge 6x6; in armored divisions, the half-track. Refs are not at hand so I am not sure about independent towed US TD battalions.

Frank
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Joined: March 18th, 2005, 11:40 am

June 4th, 2012, 11:10 pm #3

IIRC, towed TD battalions used the 3 inch M5, for which the authorized prime mover was the M3 halftrack, later intended to be replaced by the M39 AUV. The 57mm was strictly for the regimental AT companies of the infantry. The airborne British version was also used by the 82nd and the 101st in Normandy.
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Joined: May 12th, 2007, 3:03 pm

June 5th, 2012, 1:20 am #4

And the 442nd RCT Anti Tank Company used the airborne 6-pounder during Operation Dragoon.

[/IMG]
Photo from Michael De Trez's First Airborne Task Force.

Some info about the Anti Tank Company.
http://www.100thbattalion.org/archives/ ... y-442-rct/

http://www.thedropzone.org/europe/South ... irose.html

Apparently the Anti Tank Co. rarely used their guns and seems to have never knocked out any tanks with their guns. But page 35 in the Americans, The Story of the 442nd Combat Team, the Anti Tank and Cannon Companies are mentioned as helping to knock out two tanks near Sassetta on June 27, 1944.

Herbert Isonaga story of firing at an enemy tank at Sassetta.
http://nisei.hawaii.edu/object/io_1163121342187.html

Shiroku "Whitey" Yamamoto, Anti Tank Co. Glider experience.
http://nisei.hawaii.edu/object/io_1149148189765.html

The oral histories have a few pictures of the 57mm guns. You can also see the 6X6s used to tow the guns. They used jeeps for Operation Dragoon.

Best wishes,
Grant
Last edited by grant matsuoka on June 5th, 2012, 1:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: February 16th, 2008, 4:10 am

June 5th, 2012, 2:31 am #5

In an infantry division the Dodge 6x6; in armored divisions, the half-track. Refs are not at hand so I am not sure about independent towed US TD battalions.

Frank
Even so, footage and pics exist showing Dodge WC51 or WC52 4x4s towing the 57mm.

I don't know the reason why. My guess is that there weren't enough WC61 or WC62 6x6s to go around if any became unserviceable, and the smaller 4x4 was pressed into service. Perhaps a field expedient if the tow vehicle hit a mine.

This is not without problems. The 4x4 could probably do an OK job of it on a decent, fairly level road. But the M1 weighs about 1000 lbs more than the rated tow capacity of the 4x4. The 6x6 also has a two-speed transfer case, which the 4x4 lacks. This gives the 6x6 a big advantage on bad terrain or steep grades. The 4x4 could not carry as much ammo or supplies either, since the payload is significantly less than the 6x6 due to the single vs dual rear axles. Another difference is the 6x6 had heavier duty axles (bigger ring gear).









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Joined: August 29th, 2011, 10:30 pm

June 5th, 2012, 4:35 am #6

The 4x4 Dodge and the 6x6 Dodges had exactly the same engines. The 6x6 had, of course, the greater load capacity and was perfect for the full gun crew, ammo, and support (living) suplies, but a fully loaded 6x6 was a slow brute.

Sure the 4x4 Dodges could tow the 57mm gun around a battlefield with the gun crew and some ammo but the normal towing vehicle was the 6x6. With a full load and towing the 57mm gun, the 6x6 had a difficult time trying to get up hills, even on paved roads.

I have owned a 1/1 57mm gun and my club had both a 6x6 Dodge and a M3 half track to tow the gun in parades and shows. My personal vehicle used for towing the 57mm gun was a WC-56 Command Car or a M-37. Both Dodge 4x4, neither was correct for towing the gun but in real life you use what you have.

Charlie

"Put the bunny back in the box" - Poe
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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 12:00 am

June 5th, 2012, 12:20 pm #7

In an infantry division the Dodge 6x6; in armored divisions, the half-track. Refs are not at hand so I am not sure about independent towed US TD battalions.

Frank
Apparently a couple infantry divisions involved in Operation Neptune also used M2 halftracks to tow their 57's. 1st Infantry Division was one. THere are photos of M2/M2A1 halftracks towing 57mms on Omaha Beach and there is a commonly seen photo of troops of the 26th Inf.Reg't wrestling a 57mm into position in the Ardennes and one can see the halftrack at the edge of the photo. 57mm AT guns were issued at two levels in the infantry, three guns in each battalion, plus another nine in the Antitank Company at regimental level, so I don't know if the halftracks replaced trucks at both levels or possibly just the regimental AT Co. From photos it appears that the Halftrack Car, M2A1 was the common prime mover for the armored infantry battalions. Jeeps served the purpose in the glider-borne units. The reason for 82nd Abn and 101 Abn preference for the British 6-pounder on airborne carriage was that they fit the gliders better than the standard US carriages.

Last edited by gary.binder on June 5th, 2012, 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 1:38 am

June 5th, 2012, 12:40 pm #8

The 4x4 Dodge and the 6x6 Dodges had exactly the same engines. The 6x6 had, of course, the greater load capacity and was perfect for the full gun crew, ammo, and support (living) suplies, but a fully loaded 6x6 was a slow brute.

Sure the 4x4 Dodges could tow the 57mm gun around a battlefield with the gun crew and some ammo but the normal towing vehicle was the 6x6. With a full load and towing the 57mm gun, the 6x6 had a difficult time trying to get up hills, even on paved roads.

I have owned a 1/1 57mm gun and my club had both a 6x6 Dodge and a M3 half track to tow the gun in parades and shows. My personal vehicle used for towing the 57mm gun was a WC-56 Command Car or a M-37. Both Dodge 4x4, neither was correct for towing the gun but in real life you use what you have.

Charlie

"Put the bunny back in the box" - Poe
I have a 1943 WC62 1-1/2 ton and a friend has a 1942 WC51 3/4 ton and as you mentioned they have the same engine but strangly, his truck has difficulty keeping up with mine. Both engines are in good condition and run very good, maybe mine just runs a little better.

Mike Haines
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Joined: February 24th, 2008, 11:16 pm

June 5th, 2012, 2:32 pm #9

I got notification from Hobby Easy that the new 1/35 scale 57mm Anti Tank gun was shipping from them.

Quick question, what was the prime mover of the 57mm? Jeep or a Dodge Beep truck?



Peter Griffin: Any problem caused by a tank can be solved by a tank.
This is one photo from my collection showing an M2A1 half track with a 57mm in tow, the writing on the photo says it's of the "820th TD Batt. in France."


[/IMG]

___________________________________
Build how you like, like how you build.

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Joined: April 19th, 2005, 12:00 am

June 5th, 2012, 3:15 pm #10

As mentioned, the TD Command really didn't use the 57mm except for a couple test rigs. The 57mm AT guns were only used in combat by the Infantry branch (without my books in front of me I can't remember if armored engineers had them also). The gunners of the 57mm guns, as well as the regimental cannon companies, were infantrymen.
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