Munitionpanzer Panther

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Munitionpanzer Panther

Joined: March 21st, 2006, 4:00 pm

September 11th, 2017, 10:10 pm #1

Hi guys,

I have a few questions regarding the Munitionspanzer Panther and hope that someone
can clear up a few things up for me.

I was led to believe that there were actual Munitionspanzer Panther, based (mostly)
on the Panther Ausf.A. I say mostly, as I think David Fletcher once mentioned to
me that -possibly- a few Panthers G were also built/used.

Regarding these vehicles, various sources/books have either mentioned or not mentioned
at all the existence of the Munitionspanzer Panther. I must admit that I didn't look
in Panzer Tracts as I didn't buy those particular volumes.

If the vehicles did exist, were any ammunition racks put into the vehicle to store
the 75mm ammunition, or was it a matter of simply stowing wooden or metal ammunition
boxes in the tank?

Many thanks in advance

Theo
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Joined: August 7th, 2014, 9:38 am

September 11th, 2017, 11:58 pm #2

I've come to the conclusion that these never existed. I believe it was the Seibert built bergepanthers in 1944/45 that caused all the confusion ie they don't look like bergepanther with the box on the superstructure they just look like turret less panther tanks so people just called them ammo carriers. You can add metal or wooden ammo crates to one of those, inside the fighting compartment is just a wooden floor.
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Joined: July 11th, 2005, 1:07 pm

September 12th, 2017, 6:53 am #3

Hi guys,

I have a few questions regarding the Munitionspanzer Panther and hope that someone
can clear up a few things up for me.

I was led to believe that there were actual Munitionspanzer Panther, based (mostly)
on the Panther Ausf.A. I say mostly, as I think David Fletcher once mentioned to
me that -possibly- a few Panthers G were also built/used.

Regarding these vehicles, various sources/books have either mentioned or not mentioned
at all the existence of the Munitionspanzer Panther. I must admit that I didn't look
in Panzer Tracts as I didn't buy those particular volumes.

If the vehicles did exist, were any ammunition racks put into the vehicle to store
the 75mm ammunition, or was it a matter of simply stowing wooden or metal ammunition
boxes in the tank?

Many thanks in advance

Theo
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Last edited by deeley on September 13th, 2017, 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: March 21st, 2006, 4:00 pm

September 12th, 2017, 12:18 pm #4

Dean, Andrew, thank you both for your insights

I must admit that I am not that surprised to hear that none were actually
built.
As for references, my sources are a bit old which would explain things.
Chamberlain/Doyle's Encyclopedia (revised ed.) has a Munitionpanzer Panther mentioned in
the captions (426) with dealing with the Bergepanher, but do not mention anything
in the desciption regarding numbers etc.
I guess that they hadn't found anything either, other than rumours about the Munitionpanzer Panther.

Many thanks again

Theo
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Joined: February 15th, 2005, 1:15 pm

September 12th, 2017, 1:21 pm #5

Hi guys,

I have a few questions regarding the Munitionspanzer Panther and hope that someone
can clear up a few things up for me.

I was led to believe that there were actual Munitionspanzer Panther, based (mostly)
on the Panther Ausf.A. I say mostly, as I think David Fletcher once mentioned to
me that -possibly- a few Panthers G were also built/used.

Regarding these vehicles, various sources/books have either mentioned or not mentioned
at all the existence of the Munitionspanzer Panther. I must admit that I didn't look
in Panzer Tracts as I didn't buy those particular volumes.

If the vehicles did exist, were any ammunition racks put into the vehicle to store
the 75mm ammunition, or was it a matter of simply stowing wooden or metal ammunition
boxes in the tank?

Many thanks in advance

Theo
Hi Theo,
I fully agree to that written by Dean and Andrew: no reliable and update source ever quoted Munitionpanzer Panther.
About the use at the front of
a) damaged Panther without the turret (of which anyway I know no photo or writtend document) or
b) Bergepathers (expecially the early ones without specific recovery equipment like the wooden superstructure, the winch and hte rear spade)
it seems possible that they were sometimes used as munition supply vehicles, without any specific modification like ammo racks (even in this case I don't know any photo or written document demostrating this use); instead written sources often reports German troubles and complaints for recovering heavy tanks, so most probably a valualbe armoured recovery vehicle would be used just for this job!

Just my two cents opinion

Mario Raspagliosi
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Joined: March 6th, 2005, 12:49 pm

September 12th, 2017, 6:40 pm #6

Hi guys,

I have a few questions regarding the Munitionspanzer Panther and hope that someone
can clear up a few things up for me.

I was led to believe that there were actual Munitionspanzer Panther, based (mostly)
on the Panther Ausf.A. I say mostly, as I think David Fletcher once mentioned to
me that -possibly- a few Panthers G were also built/used.

Regarding these vehicles, various sources/books have either mentioned or not mentioned
at all the existence of the Munitionspanzer Panther. I must admit that I didn't look
in Panzer Tracts as I didn't buy those particular volumes.

If the vehicles did exist, were any ammunition racks put into the vehicle to store
the 75mm ammunition, or was it a matter of simply stowing wooden or metal ammunition
boxes in the tank?

Many thanks in advance

Theo
Two Munitionsschlepper Panther in list of this source:

Thomas L. Jentz, Hillary Louis Doyle - Panzer Tracts No.23 - Panzer Production from 1933 to 1945
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Joined: June 19th, 2016, 2:54 pm

September 12th, 2017, 10:22 pm #7

Dean, Andrew, thank you both for your insights

I must admit that I am not that surprised to hear that none were actually
built.
As for references, my sources are a bit old which would explain things.
Chamberlain/Doyle's Encyclopedia (revised ed.) has a Munitionpanzer Panther mentioned in
the captions (426) with dealing with the Bergepanher, but do not mention anything
in the desciption regarding numbers etc.
I guess that they hadn't found anything either, other than rumours about the Munitionpanzer Panther.

Many thanks again

Theo
It's not beyond the bounds for a Berge Panther while not retrieving vehicles to be used for other tasks.
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Joined: July 11th, 2005, 1:07 pm

September 13th, 2017, 6:48 am #8

Two Munitionsschlepper Panther in list of this source:

Thomas L. Jentz, Hillary Louis Doyle - Panzer Tracts No.23 - Panzer Production from 1933 to 1945
Hi
Yes it lists 2 Mun Schlepper in the conversion section. However it does not list them as munition schlepper only ' Mun schlepper'. All other carriers it lists by their full name. So does 'mun' stand for munition? I know it's seems obvious but it is curious that J/F did not give it its full name like in the other listings.

Not trying to split hairs just apply what J/D write in their PT books. Never assume with German tanks !

Also apart from one photo meantiinef above I can't find any other mention of this vehicle is Spelilberg or other books.

Of course time moves on and new info found.

Thanks for posting as I forgot about the conversion table st the back of PT 23
Last edited by deeley on September 13th, 2017, 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: July 11th, 2005, 1:07 pm

September 13th, 2017, 6:51 am #9

Dean, Andrew, thank you both for your insights

I must admit that I am not that surprised to hear that none were actually
built.
As for references, my sources are a bit old which would explain things.
Chamberlain/Doyle's Encyclopedia (revised ed.) has a Munitionpanzer Panther mentioned in
the captions (426) with dealing with the Bergepanher, but do not mention anything
in the desciption regarding numbers etc.
I guess that they hadn't found anything either, other than rumours about the Munitionpanzer Panther.

Many thanks again

Theo
Sorry I over looked this completely.

Funny I didnt read anything in the text section or listings at the front

Regards
Andrew
Last edited by deeley on September 13th, 2017, 6:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Joined: June 23rd, 2003, 4:53 pm

September 13th, 2017, 6:42 pm #10

Hi
Yes it lists 2 Mun Schlepper in the conversion section. However it does not list them as munition schlepper only ' Mun schlepper'. All other carriers it lists by their full name. So does 'mun' stand for munition? I know it's seems obvious but it is curious that J/F did not give it its full name like in the other listings.

Not trying to split hairs just apply what J/D write in their PT books. Never assume with German tanks !

Also apart from one photo meantiinef above I can't find any other mention of this vehicle is Spelilberg or other books.

Of course time moves on and new info found.

Thanks for posting as I forgot about the conversion table st the back of PT 23
Transforming 'Mun' into 'Munition' based on guesswork isn't necessarily the way to go if you don't want to mislead people.
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